Forum Replies Created
That Good Neighbor Agreement sounds like a step in the right direction. I’ve always been surprised how much loitering goes on in front of D&J, but I don’t think the owners can do much about it. Kelly’s used to be the same way, but not some much anymore. I never heard what the circumstances of the Summit & 3rd shooting were. Now I do. Thanks!
The segment of Summit from Sam’s down to 5th Ave has gone through a lot of changes over the past 5 years or so. The housing on the east side of Summit was first kind of a normal “hood” scene. Not too bad, but not great. Then about 4 years ago it went really downhill. There were lots of dope boys posted up and some big set-outs. I remember one property owner tried to fence off his front yard and people came and tore the fence out!
The three houses directly south of Sam’s, on the west side of Summit, used to be owned by “the judge”. He didn’t seem to do a real good job of keeping a lid on them. That’s the area you’re referring to. There appeared to be a lot of dealing and bad activities taking place. But more recently, this area has really improved. The east side of Summit seems to have much more civilized residents. On the west side, the judge sold his houses and the new owners did a ton of improvments. They are now owner occupied. And it appears that Bob Shilling has converted most of his housing south of that out of mental health, and in to market rete and even to condos.
Many areas of Summit, north of 7th, also seem to be improving. I think most of the vacant houses directly north of Sam’s have recently changed hands. It shouldn’t be too long before they improve too. Now, if N4th Street could make the same progress…
It WOULD be nice if Sam made some improvments to the exterior of his building, but it’s now the wrong time of year to ask for that. I know people who have done a few repairs and maintenance tasks for him. He has a reputation of being “tight” in compensating for work performed… if you know what I mean. Code enforcement probably isn’t easy to keep up with in this area.
The problem with these carryout operators is that they are driven pretty much by profit and profit alone. They don’t care that much about the neighborhood or general welfare. I have some measure of respect for them because they are risk takers; they are willing to operate in a dangerous environment and serve a market that few others would risk serving. There are a lot of gun-toting customers and robbers. For example, back in ’95, the former owner of D&J was shot dead in his store AFTER he gave up the cash in his drawer. More recently, a carryout guy at 3rd and Summit was also shot dead.
I not trying to defend them, but I think it would be hard to get the police or city to come down on D&J for selling squares. I think it’s pretty common knowledge that goes on. The police and city probably have bigger crime issues to deal with when they are motivated to deal with anything in Weinland Park. While it’s probably fair to view D&J and Sam as detremental to an improving neighborhood, they do serve the majority of the populace in ways that no one else is willing to. They make good money doing it, but they do it. I suspect the city and police see it that way too or they’d move against them. A lot of these people don’t have cars and can’t get around very easily (i.e. truge over to Kroger), so if you close the carryouts how and where do they shop?
Just to chip into the thread before dashing off to work…
Yep, no doubt someone is living at 1412 Summit. I’ve observed mulitiple lights on in various rooms/windows over the past week or so as I ride by in the evening.
Hamlet in general, especially the segment btwn E5th Ave and WP, does continue to look ever more nice. That lower segement, south of the park, is even nicer than a lot of northern IV, IMHO. There have been two single family homes that have sold on that block this year for at or above $175K each, those are sales in Weinland Park!!!
Sam’s Carryout at Summit and E6th Ave may be hard to lose. This property’s owners (ie. “Sam” and his wife(?)) also operate the carryout. So it’s value to them as their source of livlihood probably exceeds any price anyone could/would/should offer them for the real estate. I know of at least one relative newcomer to the immediate area, someone who has done considerable renovating, who did extend what was likely a very generous offer to Sam. That offer was not accepted. So I don’t believe that Sam is really interested in selling, as least not yet. Perhaps the day will come when he’ll convert it to a coffee shop or something, but selling beer, wine, cigs, groceries, and lottery tickets continues to be a profitable business in this kind of setting.
That house (1412 Summit) did go through foreclosure, but was quickly purchased by Columbus Housing Partnership (?), when it came on the market quite awhile ago. I don’t think it’s been occupied since that purchase and last time I looked, there’s still a lockbox on the front door. So I don’t know it’s exact status, but I don’t believe it’s for sale presently.
Robert Cauldwell “the mayor of WP” and his family lived there after Haller rehabbed it. What do you guys make of Haller (aka,”the sheriff of WP”)?
ahhh… Berdawn, my tone was completely in earnest as written. I was merely trying to thank you for posting some info and nothing more.
As for the reference to Sowell, it’s a book I randomly grabbed off the display shelf in the Main Library lobby. I’m not going to bat for this author, but I do think the free market tends to work better than at least some alternatives.
As for Mally Gal’s, hey I’ve been in there before for a few drinks. It’s not a bad place. Anybody ever drink at the Happy Family on St Clair? That’s another great place, but you have to be careful what you say because, sadly, some of the customers can be touchy and packing heat.
The carryout at E5th Ave and N4th St is MidAmerica. That business changed ownership about 3 years ago. Like virtally all inner city carryouts in low-income areas of Columbus, the owners (past & present) are hardworking, risk-taking middle-eastern immigrants.
I agree that MidAmerica could really use a facelift, but the new owners recently invested in an exterior paint job and new signage (along with a lot of roof repair), so I doubt that will happen soon. It would be nice if someone could exude a little influence any future exterior improvements.
There are homeowners in that small niche of Weinland Park (i.e. along Hamlet, north of 5th) that would love to see that carryout get closed down. As one of the few state liquor stores, on the near northeast side, it does draw a whole lot of traffic. They were even able to get their Sunday liquor sales license a few years ago, with no apparent opposition.
Berdawn, so affordable housing is rental housing, not to sell? OK, thanks for that explanation.
BTW, I just finished a very informative little book called “The Housing Boom and Bust” by Thomas Sowell c.2009. He’s a Stanford economist; and a conservative. Basically his thesis is that the entire real estate bubble and bank meltdown was politically driven. That high housing prices were caused by land use policies. The high prices drove politicians (Democrats) to promote affordable housing and more lax lending standards (i.e. subprime). That Community Banking policies also forced banks to make loans they normally would not make. That the fundamental cause of the collapse was simply that many people who got loans could not afford them. And that the securitization of mortgages, while a flawed system didn’t cause the meltdown, but rather made this kind of lending more possible and spread the risks to a much wider/larger (world-wide) group of people. It’s a good book that’s available at Columbus Metro Library.
I think “lower end market rate” and “affordable housing” are probably meant to have the same basic meaning, i.e. housing that costs less than typical housing for the general area in which it is located. I agree that is what Wagenbrenners state they intend to build. I think that’s fine for WP. Given the neighborhood’s existing state you can’t expect them to overbuild in the area and hope they can sell to top income buyers.
My thought is that even if they build and market affordable housing, once the neighborhood is perceived as livable by a wider group of people, by the merits of the neighborhood’s location, in addition to other positives, demand will increase and prices will climb. Owners will also start to upgrade their units, as has happened in other parts of the Short North. The presence of CPO housing won’t be a significant deterrent. The residents of the CPO housing will have a chance to see how the funtional people now living around them conduct productive lives and they’ll become more motivated to learn to do the same.
The auditor’s website lists five 4-19 unit buildings and three 20-39 unit buildings in WP for robert schilling (at least one of which is rented only to MH clients), two duplexes for John and Nicholas S, and two 4-19 unit buildings for Linda S.
I don’t have the map from when OCCH (CPO is the management subsidiary for most of their properties) took over, but it’s hundreds of units in WP. A neighborhood can commit to affordable housing by including such language in the neighborhood plan (or not), especially when such a large percentage of the property is owned by a single entity that is funded by the government
I think if you look more closely at the auditor’s website you’ll see he and his family owns four rather large multiunit complexes (12 units or more… I forgot the one on Indianola in my last post) and the rest are 5 units or less. Of those four very large parcels, he’s recently condoed 1271 Summit (his largest parcel). He would not go through the expense of condoing something occupied and operated by a MH group. It used to be MH occupied, but I know from firsthand observation it is being marketed and occupied by market rate owners and/or tenants.
Two of the other larger parcels may still be MH occupied which is also likely for the one on Indianola. However, since he’s turning 1271 Summit, I think it very likely he’ll turn the one adjacent to it (to the south) on Summit and also Indianola, b/c that part of WP is most ripe for conversion, and why stop at one?
His large 4th Street parcel (Duplex Courts) will be tougher to convert because it’s very near the worst part of the neighborhood (based on my 8-years worth of observations). He has MH tenants in that one as well. While I can’t say for certain, I doubt he has MH operators, because many of his MH tenants know his name. I know several of his present and former tenants from the Duplex Courts as well as a few from the Summit parcels, and they all know him.
As for his smaller-unit buildings, he recently added two four-units on 4th St south of the park. Those are being occupied by market rate tenants. I suspect his recently purchased (about a year ago) 2 or 4-unit on the east side of Summit, south of the park is also market rate. His 5-unit at Hamlet and 9th may be MH, but I wonder, since there’s a very nice and large parcel around the corner at Summit and 9th (held by Bruggeman) that’s market rate.
So really, the majority of his holdings are now market rate, but mostly because he’s converted 1271 Summit. To me, that conversion is a big indication of what direction he wants to take in WP.
To my knowledge, JR Haller hasn’t done any conversions. It would be nice to see him start moving that way.
IMHO, the WP Plan doesn’t hold much meaning unless the City, OCCH/CPO (who cares what you call them), and a few other bigger players choose to follow the course it charts. They can do what they want, with or without a plan. In my opinion, it’s a document that dishes out political correctness more than certain intent. It could even be a smokescreen.
Somewhere in the past, (check out the ownership map in the Plan for example) I read or tallied a total number of units held by CPO. I can’t quote the source (probaby the Plan) or the exact number, but using that info, I concluded their holding are less that 20% of the total. I think you can validate that simply by walking around and counting or by using the auditors website. That evaluation is significant b/c it points to the baseline number of Section 8 units that would remain if everything else turns. If CPO significant holdings on 11th Ave go market rate, the S8 percentage will be that much lower. I think it’s likely that will happen.
As for the Waggonbrenners, given what they are accomplishing at Harrison Park, I think the City chose a pretty good developer. Even if they build and market “affordable housing”, it may not stay that way once it turns hands as first buyers/owners sell. You need things like “rent control” to dictate and maintain pricing, and I really hope to never see that anywhere in Columbus.
<CPO does not own housing, actually, OCCH no longer “owns” all the <subsidized units…interesting that they are no longer the owners of <record, but a number of subsidiaries, based at their address is. GG, <along with OCCH, and people like Robert Schilling (and assorted not-<Robert, but also named Schilling individuals) own well more than 100 <units in WP.
Schilling owns the Duplex Courts on 4th St btwn 7th & 8th Aves, a five unit at Hamlet & 9th and two large multiunits on Summit btwn 5th and 6th Aves. Recently, he’s bought a few doubles scattered here and there. Duplex Courts is/are occupied by “mental health” tenants, but I believe his Summit buildings are becoming/have become market rate units. Schilling’s big mental health buildings are in Old Town, places like Bryden House. He also owns the Greystone on High St in VV. My bet is that he’d rent everything he holds in WP at market rate if/when the demand arrives. In the meantime, he has to get rent where he can. I think JR Haller holds more section 8 unit spread over a much larger area of WP and Schilling or anyone else does, except CPO. But, if I’m not mistaken, CPO’s position in WP is less than 20%. If/when most or all of the voucher Section 8 (e.g. JR Haller) goes market rate, the neighborhood becomes much better.
<The neighborhood plan IS just a document, but one that is supposed <to provide guidance over time. Leaving housing to market forces will <result in another HW, IV, or VV…gentrified neighborhoods with no <commitment to affordable housing. Maintaining the status quo results <in an easy location to house those most and an easy paycheck for <those whose organizations benefit most from a large, poor <population.
I don’t see how, in a free market, you can “commit to affordable housing”. If property or a neighborhood is undervalued, buyers will bid it up to parity, assuming there is no factor like crime working against it. Will WP ever be as pricey as VV? Probably not b/c it lacks the architectural assets VV has, but parts of it could come close to being IV or HW. JMHO.
I’m a bit surprised to see GG fingered as one of the driving causes of the ongoing poverty in WP. I always viewed them as more of a bystanding support group. I rent to one of their employees and have met Randy, the lead guy, a few times. I go in there quite a bit to collect rent. My thought was when GG moved from Harrison West, it was viewed as a successful milestone that thier work was done in HW and that they were now going to focus on WP. While they have a much larger facility in WP, I’ve always assumed they would be ready to move on to another poverty hotspot when the need for them in WP was exhaused. There are plenty of neighborhoods needing their kinds of services.
As for the WP Community Plan, my impression was that if left to the guys driving the plan, (mostly the former head of the WP Civic Association, but possibly Randy at GG, and even Campus Partners), that the stated mission was to not displace any of the existing residents of the neighborhood. It was very anti-gentrification and pro “neighborhood empowerment”. The idea was grow the neighborhood from the inside. My thought was, while admirable, that approach is not so realisitic (haven’t we tried this approach since LBJ was president?). I personally sent comments on the draft plan to the city planning department managing the production of the final version. I strongly encouraged that the plan provide for some amount of gentrification in the mission, which was added. But isn’t the plan just a document? I’d like to think that market forces can drive change.
Gentrification is needed to really turn the neighborhood. I see gentrification starting to take root. I think the neighborhood is finally starting to go somewhere, although there’s a lot to get done. Unlike many other similar low-income neighborhoods in the city (e.g. Linden, Hilltop, the near eastside), WP seems ideally positioned to gentrify. Wagonbrenner developments of the CCF and Ault/3M sites will really help things move along. Unlike, say Victorian Village, the neighborhood cannot and will not gentrity completely, because of the significant fraction of longterm CPO housing. But I anticipate that all of the privately-held Section 8 housing will gradually convert to non-subsidized, including most or all of the larger multi-units now occupied by factions such as tenants subsizide by the mental-health agencies. Some of those conversions have already happened.
As for my units, except for a few very low-key SSI-supported retirees, I am now able to rent to mostly young working individuals or couples, and a few OSU grad students. Eight years ago, I couldn’t come close to finding any non-subsidized tenants unless they were drug trade entrepenuers or chronic deadbeats hopping from the last unit from which they were about to be set-out. It took me a long time to learn how to operate in this market, to rigorously screen tenants and find good tenants. But it’s getting easier now!
This is a great thread. I’ve owned and operated investment property in WP for almost 8 years, and I used to be active in the civic association. I don’t live there, but I live close by and have spent many, many days and invested many dollars up there.
I need to read all of the posts but I’ll be back to give my perspective. Not all of the landlords are bad up there, but it’s extremely difficult to operate normal market rate apartments up there w/o getting skinned alive and ripped off by dishonest or disfuncational tenants.
“A very nice option for quick sushi in downtown. Sometimes Nida’s is just too slow and irritating with their fish switcheroo nonsense…”
Hey, I just wanted to comment on the posted observation that Nida pulls a “switcheroo” by using fish from somewhere other than her display case to fill orders. :evil:
I asked her about this and she said that typically only fish for spicy tuna comes from outside of the display case, unless it’s at the start or end of day, or at another time when the display case isn’t fully stocked because of a high demand for a particular type of fish on any given day. :idea:
Typically, a batch of spicy tuna is made at the start of the day, from the same source present in display case. The tuna is cut up, placed in a bowl, mixed with spices for better flavor blending, sealed, and placed in the underbar refrigerator that mainly houses sauces and veggies. So despite it coming from somewhere other than the display case, it’s the approprate stock for making spicy tuna. The premixing is done to improve flavor and to more quickly satisfy customer orders.
Also, the display case is small, it can only hold a limited amount of fish. Like any highly productive sushi bar/carryout, there’s other refrigerated storage being utilized to hold additional stock, but that additional stock is the same quality. The display case is meant to be representative, and, for most orders, to provide the easiest point for the chef to draw from.
It’s challenging provide quick, quality, primarily “made-to-order” sushi in a wide-open, walk-up setting like the North Market, and have a sit-down bar too. I think Nida hits the mark. Typically, at groceries (e.g. Kroger or Giant Eagle), or other walk-up/carry-outs (there aren’t many), customers never get to see any of the stock. :wink: