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Trayvon Martin and "Stand Your Ground"

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Everyday Chit Chat Trayvon Martin and "Stand Your Ground"

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 1,080 total)
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  • #90859

    Twixlen
    Participant

    Anyone else following this case? It’s pretty heart breaking. Beyond the racism implicit, it shocks me, how far Florida’s self defense law goes. I had no idea.

    Mother Jones has the best write up and timeline, including imbeds of all the 9-1-1 calls.

    Sanford PD is in a world of trouble over how they’ve handled the case, now that the Feds are involved. Every step of the way, they’ve ignored procedure and protocol.

    I hope all of the states that have passed such far reaching self defense laws are taking a good, hard look at this. A regular contributer of Ta-Nehisi Coates mentioned that they work in state legislature and their home state had such a law on the docket (Minnesota? Wisconsin? I can’t remember – and the comment section is HUGE), and they have since shuttled the law entirely, due to this case.

    Personally – I think “Stand Your Ground” goes way, WAY too far – Florida’s homicide numbers have tripled and many cases are never investigated because of the law’s strength. That’s not a good place for law enforcement to be.

    #487812
    Snarf
    Snarf
    Participant

    Yeah I’ve been following this, very tragic.

    The racist cop-wannabe that provoked and murdered this poor kid needs put down immediately.

    #487813

    Twixlen
    Participant

    Snarf said:
    Yeah I’ve been following this, very tragic.

    The racist cop-wannabe that provoked and murdered this poor kid needs put down immediately.

    I see what you did there.

    I think at the very, very least they should have detained him – kept up on his where-abouts – tested him for drugs & alcohol – maybe even sending a homicide cop instead of one from vice would have been prudent.

    #487814

    Cookie
    Member

    But I was assured that CCW permit holders were law-abiding citizens.

    #487815
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Snarf said:
    Yeah I’ve been following this, very tragic.

    The racist cop-wannabe that provoked and murdered this poor kid needs put down immediately.

    Been following this myself. Hard to see how Zimmerman didn’t provoke the encounter.

    #487816

    myliftkk
    Participant

    I have been following this fairly closely. Not least of why, because I’m not at all unfamiliar with Sanford PD (a friend’s spouse was on that particular force for 13 years, plus years of living in a city nearby). Let’s just say that should the Feds/DoJ investigates the SPD (as some pols are calling for), there’s a high likelihood they won’t like what they find. That’s probably true with most of the Central Florida “old boy” PDs that have been around decades as opposed to those of much more recent creation.

    FL’s passed a number of stupid laws regarding CCW and Stand Your Ground recently. I say stupid, because if any state’s citizens has the potential to prove the foolishness of such laws, it’s definitely that one.

    #487817
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    myliftkk said:

    FL’s passed a number of stupid laws regarding CCW and Stand Your Ground recently. I say stupid, because if any state’s citizens has the potential to prove the foolishness of such laws, it’s definitely that one.

    On that specifically, the guy who sponsored the law says it’s being misapplied in this case.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/fl-stand-your-ground-law-on-trial-20120320,0,5349941,full.story

    #487818
    Chris Sunami
    Chris Sunami
    Participant

    Twixlen said:
    I see what you did there.

    I’m pretty sure snarf meant exactly what he said. I don’t see him as someone to take the vigilante’s side in this case.

    #487819

    myliftkk
    Participant

    rus said:
    On that specifically, the guy who sponsored the law says it’s being misapplied in this case.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/fl-stand-your-ground-law-on-trial-20120320,0,5349941,full.story

    It’s been mis-applied quite often. Which is to say, the law itself was poorly written in the first place, and doubly so if his interpretation is as far off from how in practice it is actually applied

    I do wish people would quit terming Zimmerman as a vigilante though. There was no “alleged” lawbreaker in this case, and the only “alleging” was being done by the perp. Plus, the SPD cops tagged Trayvon as a John Doe, even though he had a cell phone in his pocket.

    #487820
    Snarf
    Snarf
    Participant

    ChrisSunami said:
    I’m pretty sure snarf meant exactly what he said. I don’t see him as someone to take the vigilante’s side in this case.

    Yes, I am advocating a couple of hard, pipe-hitting brothers to go to work on George Zimmerman with a pair of pliers and a blow torch.

    #487821
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Snarf said:
    Yes, I am advocating a couple of hard, pipe-hitting brothers to go to work on George Zimmerman with a pair of pliers and a blow torch.

    Zims dead baby… Zims dead…

    with apologies to Tarantino

    #487822

    Twixlen
    Participant

    ChrisSunami said:
    I’m pretty sure snarf meant exactly what he said. I don’t see him as someone to take the vigilante’s side in this case.

    His particular choice of words is from another thread. ;)

    And yeah – I have no doubt that Snarf is pro-dead-Zimmerman.

    #487823
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    myliftkk said:
    It’s been mis-applied quite often. Which is to say, the law itself was poorly written in the first place, and doubly so if his interpretation is as far off from how in practice it is actually applied

    The concept is fine; if attacked, should it be illegal to defend yourself?

    In this case it looks more like Zimmerman attacked Martin. Not self defense at all.

    #487824

    myliftkk
    Participant

    rus said:
    The concept is fine; if attacked, should it be illegal to defend yourself?

    In this case it looks more like Zimmerman attacked Martin. Not self defense at all.

    Conceptually, I don’t have an issue. But, and it’s a big but, the law has been so poorly written that the “claim” of self-defense is coming down to one living person’s word against a dead body (and this has been how it has played out multiple times). That is not sufficient, and it’s proving over and over again in FL, where gangs are claiming self-defense in open air shootouts and getting off.

    To me, the key is where the burden of proof lies. FL law, as it seems the courts, prosecutors, and police are interpreting it, puts the burden of proof, in practice, on the system to prove the killing wasn’t in self-defense. I think it should be the other way around. It wouldn’t stop things like this from happening, not to say any law would, but it would better ensure they don’t go grossly unpunished.

    #487825

    Twixlen
    Participant

    cable_crop

    From this article in The Atlantic on media bias[/url].

    Between the shooting itself and the Justice Department’s announcement, according to ThinkProgress, CNN ran 41 segments on the Trayvon Martin case. MSNBC ran 13. Fox News covered it only once.

    In itself, that’s a matter of news judgment that could probably be defended. But I want to suggest that the disparity here may have something to do with whether one thinks institutional racism remains a serious problem in the United States. Conservatives often seem to think it isn’t, and that if anything, the real problem is how often spurious charges of white racism are deployed by their political opponents, while liberals more often tend toward the opposite view. Maybe both groups are drawing justified inferences from the data they’re seeing.

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