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The Only Way to Give Columbus a True Identity

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion The Only Way to Give Columbus a True Identity

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  • #522048

    geoyui
    Participant

    InnerCore said:

    To me it seems that people are reading into my comments more with a personal bias. For example I have two sister, one is overweight one who isn’t. I could go up to both of them and say “hey sis, after traveling around America and living in many different communities I’ve noticed that we have very bad eating and lifestyle habits. We should maybe adopt some of the habits that I’ve learned from people elsewhere” My overweight sister is going think I’m criticizing her and saying she’s fat and the other one isn’t.

    I think this is a clear example of the disconnect. Where you would say, “I’ve travelled extensively and this works better”, others have stated “I’ve also travelled extensively and there is more than one way to be better”. Both sides want the same goal. But your analogy also indicates that anyone who loves Columbus automatically ignores advice and is fine with the status quo.

    #522049

    geoyui
    Participant

    jbcmh81 said:
    BTW, I challenge anyone to read through news articles from the early 1990s or earlier. The attitudes between then and now regarding Columbus development and its future are night and day.

    I think this is key. The viewpoints a decade ago compared to today is also part of the process of being a better city and attracting more talent. I am proud of this city, but I wasn’t when I first moved here nearly a decade ago.

    #522050

    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    InnerCore said:
    And as far as being a debbie downer most of that seems to come when I spend countless post defending something that is blatantly factual.

    Factual or not, you’re spending countless posts pointing out the shortcomings of Columbus.

    I’m all for improving the city and working for a better future, but after awhile, a constant stream of pointing out faults is viewed as nothing but negativity.

    The few positive remarks you’ve made are usually followed with a big “but”. This looks better than a prison, BUT…

    All I’m saying is that a lighter touch goes a long way. You’re talking to a whole bunch of people who mostly care greatly about the urban environment in Columbus, and who mostly agree with the principles that you’re discussing. But the extreme viewpoint can rub people the wrong way. Just ease up a bit on the parade of shortcomings. ;)

    #522051

    geoyui
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    Again No. I have admitted countless times that Columbus has progress. My point is that in many of these projects other cities have learned from past mistakes and are now creating these same projects that are better designed to create thriving neighborhoods.

    I agree you’ve made plenty of statements recognizing the progress that Columbus has achieved. It’s just hard to see how earnest those comments are sometimes when you simplify all the progress the downtown core has made to parking meters.

    #522052

    InnerCore
    Participant

    geoyui said:
    I agree you’ve made plenty of statements recognizing the progress that Columbus has achieved. It’s just hard to see how earnest those comments are sometimes when you simplify all the progress the downtown core has made to parking meters.

    The hyperbole hurts me, I get it. I’ll try to adjust. But please everyone take note that I use over the top metaphors and analogies to make a point. Columbus is doing more than installing parking meters but they are definitely behind the times in coming to that realization. So I wish there were people 10 years ago yelling these criticisms louder.

    #522053

    RedStorm
    Participant

    New to posting here in the last few days, so I did not read ALL of the 15+ pages of posts. So I apologize if I’m bringing up previous points.

    The main point made by the OP was that Columbus needs a, I guess, innovative and creative center to establish an identity for the city? Did I read that right? Personally, I don’t want to have an identity just known for one thing (as people pointed out, Austin – live music, Indy – amateur sports, other cities have food attached with their city). If we become just known for arts as an example, then food, business, sports, etc. won’t receive as much attention. That’s my view of it at least. The Short North is receiving a lot of noteriety nationally and the food scene is great as well. I don’t quite understand this “Creative and Innovative Center.” Is it just a big building where people can come bounce ideas around? Perhaps I missed the intent of the original post.

    As far as the current negativity discussion, I’m somewhere in between. Yes, the progress made the last decade plus has been great, and by the looks of it the next 5 years will bring more amazing things to the city. There clearly is a large portion of the community (as evidenced by this site as well as discussions you have with friends, family, etc.) that want to “revitalize” the city and bring more of an urban life to downtown, some sort of mass transity beyond COTA, etc. All of this will take massive investments, smart planning from city officials, and even more that we as individuals, small businesses, and a community can’t bring together. But we can continue the discussion and pushing the frame of the discussion/debate in that direction. If enough people voice their opinions then leaders will listen and follow that demand. In terms of negativity, I understand that a bit. We seem to be ahead of Detroit, Cleveland, Cincy, etc. in terms of moving forward and in competing for new residents. However, as everyone has acknowledged, there are areas that need improved and we can still get better, but we shouldn’t discount how far the city has come so far. Let’s build on that progress and keep it going.

    #522054

    RedStorm
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    So I wish there were people 10 years ago yelling these criticisms louder.

    Not disagreeing, but this doesn’t really help anyone. 10 years ago is 10 years ago, can’t change it. We need to offer solutions for the present (and of course, the future) rather than saying what should have been done in the past. Just my two cents.

    #522055

    Chris Sunami
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    No our differences of opinions is leading you to project negativity where there is none.

    Allow me to quote your opening post in this thread:

    I realize Columbus has all the potential to be like other place it’s just the mentality of the people that hold it back.

    This has been your consistent thesis throughout this discussion. So I’m left to assume one of the following:

    [i]A) You think the mentality of the people you are addressing directly in this thread is such that it is holding us and Columbus back. [/i]

    If so, that seems misguided. Let’s take the question of rail as an example. The CU community –in general –is notoriously supportive of local rail, to the point that some have accused the boards of being hostile to those who don’t share that opinion. Walker, in particular, has been a strong and consistent advocate of rail. Given that the people you are addressing directly are reasonably forward-looking, let’s assume:
    [i]
    B) You believe the mentality of our elected officials, is such that its ability to hold Columbus back cannot be overcome by people such as the ones arguing with you in this thread.
    [/i]
    This again seems misguided. Mayor Coleman was recently cited approvingly in a cover story by the New York Times Magazine as the single person most responsible for Ohio’s economic recovery. He’s been a huge and effective advocate for the downtown area, which as a urban planner I would think you would agree with. So then we’re left with:

    [i]C) You believe the mentality of the vast majority of Columbus is so backwards that it cannot be overcome by the elected officials and people such as those posting in this thread working together.[/i]

    That’s a very negative opinion. And your response to people pushing back against that position has been –in my perception of it –that the mentality of the people responding to you is not advanced enough to comprehend how behind we are, no matter how many simple-to-read charts get thrown at us. Which brings us back to A.

    #522056

    InnerCore
    Participant

    RedStorm said:
    Not disagreeing, but this doesn’t really help anyone. 10 years ago is 10 years ago, can’t change it. We need to offer solutions for the present (and of course, the future) rather than saying what should have been done in the past. Just my two cents.

    Which is why I’m trying to point out the things that people can voice their opinion TODAY so that 10 years from now we wont be saying I wish someone would have said that 10 years ago.

    I’ll use my garage example. 10 years from now people are going to be saying I really wish we would have lined the ground floor of our parking garages. The next time a developer builds a garage I’d rather people show up and voice that it doesn’t take much to put retail on the ground floor now, but it will mean a lot to the city in the future.

    #522057

    InnerCore
    Participant

    ChrisSunami said:
    Allow me to quote your opening post in this thread:

    This has been your consistent thesis throughout this discussion. So I’m left to assume one of the following:

    [i]A) You think the mentality of the people you are addressing directly in this thread is such that it is holding us and Columbus back. [/i]

    Why don’t you highlight later quotes from me where I openly shifted my position that I think it’s NOT the mentality of the local people but rather the inability of leadership to act.

    Unlike you I’m not actually tied to any opinion. As I come across more relevant information my opinion changes to reflect my new understanding. I’m not trying to actually win an argument for the arguments sake I’m trying to get to the real issue, whether my original hypothesis is right or wrong.

    ChrisSunami said:
    If so, that seems misguided. Let’s take the question of rail as an example. The CU community –in general –is notoriously supportive of local rail, to the point that some have accused the boards of being hostile to those who don’t share that opinion. Walker, in particular, has been a strong and consistent advocate of rail. Given that the people you are addressing directly are reasonably forward-looking, let’s assume:
    [i]

    I’ve recognized this. And I’ve tried to highlight things that I think would bring a climate more conducive to getting better transit quicker. For example building higher density and not just shifting suburban project closer into the city.

    ChrisSunami said:
    B) You believe the mentality of our elected officials, is such that its ability to hold Columbus back cannot be overcome by people such as the ones arguing with you in this thread.
    [/i]
    This again seems misguided. Mayor Coleman was recently cited approvingly in a cover story by the New York Times Magazine as the single person most responsible for Ohio’s economic recovery. He’s been a huge and effective advocate for the downtown area, which as a urban planner I would think you would agree with. So then we’re left with:

    Yes and No. Mayor Coleman is only one elected official. Mayor Coleman has tried to bring light rail and failed. I think if he had he way Columbus would be a lot different. But he doesn’t as we have many elected (an unelected) officials who think otherwise. I’ve read statements where officials have said we can’t change street patterns for fear of jobs moving to the suburbs, without the obvious fact that a lot of those changes would be to facilitate people living downtown and actually increasing the incentive for jobs to be downtown.

    ChrisSunami said:
    [i]C) You believe the mentality of the vast majority of Columbus is so backwards that it cannot be overcome by the elected officials and people such as those posting in this thread working together.[/i]

    I’ve never said anything about being backwards. If anything I’ve implied that because Columbus doesn’t have much density and you can freely travel from place to place in a car many local people don’t really understand a true walkable environment because they have nothing to compare it to. I wouldn’t call that backwards. It seems you and many others have an inferiority complex and don’t like being perceived as some backwards hick.

    ChrisSunami said:
    That’s a very negative opinion. And your response to people pushing back against that position has been –in my perception of it –that the mentality of the people responding to you is not advanced enough to comprehend how behind we are, no matter how many simple-to-read charts get thrown at us. Which brings us back to A.

    Again you seem to read into a little deeper than it is. Many people here seemed to be under the impression that the population is growing great mainly because we do have population growth and most local articles simply point out that fact.

    When I first highlighted that we weren’t doing great among millennials Walker immediately posted an article highlighting how millennials had grown in percentage in the urban areas. Me highlighting the difference and the cause for the confusion doesn’t me I think he cant comprehend.

    Let me put it to you this way. If I was looking at the migration of millennials and the data was showing the opposite and they were moving here because of the great lifestyle no one would take issue with how I present that information. And he like many others have respond in very flippant ways.

    So I post where Columbus is missing the mark, instead of looking critically at what I said people try to make fun of my education and then turn around and blame all the negativity on me. Meanwhile I get private message from people thanking me addressing these critical issues and that their voice just got drowned out by naysayers without critical discussion.

    Take all of my remarks into consideration. It seems that once the adversarial positions are set up the post where I move to the center are ignored.

    #522058

    Polis
    Participant

    ChrisSunami said:
    This again seems misguided. Mayor Coleman was recently cited approvingly in a cover story by the New York Times Magazine as the single person most responsible for Ohio’s economic recovery. He’s been a huge and effective advocate for the downtown area, which as a urban planner I would think you would agree with. So then we’re left with:

    Which is pure irony since he was a big backer of Easton and Polaris as well as the rapid, spurious growth of retail in the 90’s and early 2000’s. What Coleman destroys, he can rebuild.

    #522059

    Polis
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    Columbus is doing more than installing parking meters but [s]they[/s] [i]the decision makers[/i] are definitely behind the times in coming to that realization. So I wish there were people 10 years ago yelling these criticisms louder.

    Fixed!

    I would like to point out that many of the planners and related staff in Columbus have been beating their heads against the wall for a at least a decade about the way the city developed.

    #522060

    InnerCore
    Participant

    Polis said:
    Which is pure irony since he was a big backer of Easton and Polaris as well as the rapid, spurious growth of retail in the 90’s and early 2000’s. What Coleman destroys, he can rebuild.

    Easton was actually a great idea. The “town center” is a good ideal that most urbanist support to bring density in inner ring suburbs. The problem was the implementation. As usual the people making the decisions felt that the people in Columbus are to tied to their vehicles. Then add to that the fact that the zoning code didn’t encourage mixed use. So instead of building a mixed use town center like many other places they separated the uses.

    Imagine if they would have put residential, a couple of the office towers, parks, libraries, etc. all inside Easton. You could walk to work and then get off and walk to great shopping and dinning.

    Here is Rockville Town Center, same concept just implement differently:

    Main Square:
    [img]http://www.rockvillemd.gov/bin/b/p/town_square_fountain.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.locksmiths-rockville.com/wp-content/uploads/Rockville-Town-Centre-MD.jpg[/img]

    Library:
    [img]http://rockvilletownsquare.com/images/wygwam/atthesquare_library.jpg[/img]

    Wide sidewalks and places for outdoor dinning:
    [img]http://o5.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/PATCH/resize/600×450/http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/patch/85fdb8b1cf762d4095deb5c41cdb3607[/img]

    Residential above ground floor retail. The whole structure is wrapped around a parking garage similar to Arena District:
    [img]http://www.bethesdarealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/Biersch-Rockville-Town-Center.jpg[/img]

    I think Easton is a great example of a good ideal that wasn’t implemented properly due to a lot of different local reasons. Right now we could be proclaiming Easton as not only a great shopping destination but one of the great urban style neighborhoods that young people are excited about moving to.

    #522061

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    Easton was actually a great idea. The “town center” is a good ideal that most urbanist support to bring density in inner ring suburbs. The problem was the implementation. As usual the people making the decisions felt that the people in Columbus are to tied to their vehicles. Then add to that the fact that the zoning code didn’t encourage mixed use. So instead of building a mixed use town center like many other places they separated the uses.

    Imagine if they would have put residential, a couple of the office towers, parks, libraries, etc. all inside Easton. You could walk to work and then get off and walk to great shopping and dinning.

    Here is Rockville Town Center, same concept just implement differently:

    Main Square:
    [img]http://www.rockvillemd.gov/bin/b/p/town_square_fountain.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.locksmiths-rockville.com/wp-content/uploads/Rockville-Town-Centre-MD.jpg[/img]

    Library:
    [img]http://rockvilletownsquare.com/images/wygwam/atthesquare_library.jpg[/img]

    Wide sidewalks and places for outdoor dinning:
    [img]http://o5.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/PATCH/resize/600×450/http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/patch/85fdb8b1cf762d4095deb5c41cdb3607[/img]

    Residential above ground floor retail. The whole structure is wrapped around a parking garage similar to Arena District:
    [img]http://www.bethesdarealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/Biersch-Rockville-Town-Center.jpg[/img]

    I think Easton is a great example of a good ideal that wasn’t implemented properly due to a lot of different local reasons. Right now we could be proclaiming Easton as not only a great shopping destination but one of the great urban style neighborhoods that young people are excited about moving to.

    The population around Easton went up over 110% since 2000 and the tract directly south grew over 141%. So while residential was not directly incorporated over the town center itself, the project clearly spurred a lot of nearby residential. There is some directly across the street, and there’s plenty of space in the area left for a lot more. This whole area was little more than empty lots. Also, considering Easton is constantly changing, I would not necessarily count out residential additions.

    Also, Easton was not the first town center concept, but it’s been much copied since. It’s easy to claim what Easton could’ve been using examples that were built afterwards.

    #522062

    rus
    Participant

    jbcmh81 said:

    And Easton was not the first town center concept

    The continent comes to mind.

    Flashback – The Continent

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