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The Fiscal Cliff

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics The Fiscal Cliff

This topic contains 243 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  News 5 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 151 through 165 (of 244 total)
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  • #519402
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    tdziemia said:
    I am with Paul, but I really don’t get his logic. Has he really drunk the Cool Aid of a 3.6% tax hike on multimillionaires sinking the economy? Wow, given his lineage I thought the guy at least migh tbe semi-intelligent. And he thinks that the Dems being the party of taxes will lose votes for the Dems? Obama ran on an overt pledge to NOT roll back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy, and was handily elected.
    Really … I don’t get it. Too much good Kentucky bourbon maybe?

    In a sense, it doesn’t matter.

    It’s a bet that raising taxes will make things worse or perceived as worse; arguably the same thing in politics.

    If the GOP is willing to make that bet, I’d think the dems would want to take it.

    #519403

    tdziemia
    Participant

    Here’s a good one for the sniff test.

    I believe the Dem’s proposal is that only the top tax rate reverts to the pre-Bush rate. This kicks in at $380,000 of adjusted income (as of 2011 tax year) for a return in the married-filing-joint category. So our hypothetical married small business owner with $500,000 in adjusted income will get stuck paying all of $4,300 in additional taxes if Obama gets his way. That is a reduction of 0.9 percent of their adjusted income! Or, a reduction of $360/month for someone who is earning $42,000/month!

    Does anyone seriously think this will prevent her or him from hiring a new employee if their growing business warrants more hiring?

    Do you think they will even notice it?

    For me, doesn’t pass the sniff test. In fact, it’s laughable that someone can even argue it.

    #519404
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    tdziemia said:
    For me, doesn’t pass the sniff test. In fact, it’s laughable that someone can even argue it.

    If the democrats feel the same way, why wouldn’t they be supportive of what Paul is proposing?

    #519405

    tdziemia
    Participant

    I haven’t been invited into the leadership circle yet, so I don’t know :-).

    Though lord knows I got enough email from Barack and Michelle this fall (funny … haven;t heard from ’em recently).

    #519406
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    This is a lot of debate over a completely imaginary proposal from Paul.

    #519407
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    tdziemia said:
    I haven’t been invited into the leadership circle yet, so I don’t know :-).

    HA!

    #519408
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    So Rand Paul’s proposal is that as a Senator, he should basically just be on the sidelines watching stuff he doesn’t agree with then he can come back later and say “I told you so”, although he didn’t actually make any realistic proposals of his own.

    Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree I guess.

    #519409
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Coremodels said:
    So Rand Paul’s proposal is that as a Senator, he should basically just be on the sidelines watching stuff he doesn’t agree with then he can come back later and say “I told you so”, although he didn’t actually make any realistic proposals of his own.

    Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree I guess.

    Looks more like “There’s no way I can advance my ideals and what the other guy wants to do is crazy, but maybe the only way to get him to see that is to let him do it.”.

    At least that’s how I’m reading him and similar sentiments.

    #519410

    tdziemia
    Participant

    And I don;t really think the “apple doesnt fall” comment is off the mark. Dad ran a reasonable campaign with a rather specific platform that didn;t resonate with the GOP powerbrokers, so he got no media, and had to fly on his own. Much better than in the past, but maybe he does better outside the two parties?

    #519411

    I realize this isn’t Paul Krugman, but it hasn’t come up so far as I can tell in this thread (disclaimer: I have not read every link posted):

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/platinum-coins-debt-ceiling_n_2257361.html?utm_hp_ref=email_share

    This is not my area of expertise and I have no stake in the suggestion. Just floating it for the sake of sharing a different idea.

    On a personal note, I also can’t help but feel solutions to this issue lie in helping more people go into social service- not for the government (as in a job) but in business/charitable organizations, thereby creating jobs, instead of looking for them. Do what they see needs to be addressed in their communities. It seems we don’t talk enough about investment into development of people to become other than job seekers, and there is too much focus on finding “work” just for the sake of paying the bills, which has a tendency to kill people’s sense of self worth if they are just in it for the money and it has no meaning to them. Seeing people’s concerns about if the economy slows, they will loose jobs, and businesses will go out of business if the consumption decreases. They tend to feel like a different kind of slave and feel trapped and vulnerable to economic trends.

    I imagine that has a lot to do with the amount of drugs people take (legally like alcohol, prescriptions for anxiety and depression, or self medicated illegally) to cope with this situation. I recognize life’s travails include other reasons for that, abusive relationships have a similar impact.

    Trying to conform into this unnatural world we have with all its rules and constraints and expectations. Messages that we must be this or that. Doing a job that has no meaning would be/and has been very un-fulfilling at the times I’ve done them. Financial safety/stability can have its soul killing trade off.

    I feel like we have been institutionalized to go to school, get a good job, save and invest money and then, if we are lucky (and Enron/Savings & Loans or our latest bankster catastrophe housing bubble burst scam doesn’t negatively impact us) we have a happy ending in a comfortable retirement in some warm tropical/Mediterranean climate. It is a pipe dream that never happens for 98% of the population. Not enough focus on entrepreneurial programming in our educational process for social needs.

    Too much unnecessary spending and time wasted on materialistic and self destructive consumption and disconnection from this ecological world we are part of. Going to the conventional grocery store and seeing the mind numbing crap at the checkout about what starlet is on self destruct mode or who is divorcing who in Hollywood etc. is a testament to our collective train wreck.

    #519412
    hugh59
    hugh59
    Participant

    The platinum coin plan could be risky. It could seem too much like a “scheme” or “trickery” and cause public confidence in the administration to drop.

    Too much unnecessary spending and time wasted on materialistic and self destructive consumption and disconnection from this ecological world we are part of. Going to the conventional grocery store and seeing the mind numbing crap at the checkout about what starlet is on self destruct mode or who is divorcing who in Hollywood etc. is a testament to our collective train wreck.

    I agree with you Red Sun Rising, I think we focus to much attention and energy on these kinds of counter productive things and activities.

    #519413
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    hugh59 said:
    The platinum coin plan could be risky. It could seem too much like a “scheme” or “trickery” and cause public confidence in the administration to drop.

    Too much unnecessary spending and time wasted on materialistic and self destructive consumption and disconnection from this ecological world we are part of. Going to the conventional grocery store and seeing the mind numbing crap at the checkout about what starlet is on self destruct mode or who is divorcing who in Hollywood etc. is a testament to our collective train wreck.

    I agree with you Red Sun Rising, I think we focus to much attention and energy on these kinds of counter productive things and activities.

    The platinum coin thing makes me think of this:

    At least until I’m distracted by Kate Middleton’s pregnancy. *SWOON*

    #519414

    Rockmastermike
    Participant

    Billionaires Warn Higher Taxes Could Prevent Them From Buying Politicians

    The Vegas magnate complains that the media has ignored billionaires’ essential role in giving jobs to politicians who would otherwise have difficulty finding “honest work of any kind.”

    “Billionaires are providing employment for a group of seriously incompetent and marginal people,” Mr. Adelson says. “You raise taxes on us, and who’s going to create those jobs? I really don’t think people have thought this through.”

    #519415
    Manatee
    Manatee
    Participant

    hugh59 said:
    The platinum coin plan could be risky. It could seem too much like a “scheme” or “trickery” and cause public confidence in the administration to drop.

    Too much unnecessary spending and time wasted on materialistic and self destructive consumption and disconnection from this ecological world we are part of. Going to the conventional grocery store and seeing the mind numbing crap at the checkout about what starlet is on self destruct mode or who is divorcing who in Hollywood etc. is a testament to our collective train wreck.

    I agree with you Red Sun Rising, I think we focus to much attention and energy on these kinds of counter productive things and activities.

    +1

    #519416

    tdziemia
    Participant

    I think red sun rising is raising points about a whole ‘nuther cliff, something like a psycho-emotional one, rather than a fiscal one.
    As for extolling the virtues of entrepreneurship, let’s not forget that too much unfettered entrepreneurial activity can also get us in trouble. Various “innovative” debt derivatives are part of what brought down our financial institutions in 2007-8 (not to mention the entrepreneurial zeal of the subprime mortgage lenders at the front end of that food chain).
    But yes, those ills are real and disturbing … and solutions just as elusive as those for the cliff that’s the subject of the thread.

Viewing 15 posts - 151 through 165 (of 244 total)

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