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Shootings, Gun Violence & Gun Control Discussion

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Everyday Chit Chat Shootings, Gun Violence & Gun Control Discussion

Viewing 15 posts - 2,626 through 2,640 (of 2,647 total)
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  • #1086334

    jackoh
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>joev wrote:</div>
    90% of gun owners support enhanced gun control, and only 33-40% of Americans even own guns. Be sure that those who fight loudest against it are a small but vicious minority.

    A minority doesn’t set policy without at least the tacit approval of the majority. I’m less interested in the ideology of a few extremists, and more interested in understanding why the general political will to enact gun control is actually decreasing.

    Perhaps it is simply a domestic reflection of the attitude that America as a nation has increasingly adopted in its dealing with problems great and small in the rest of the world. That is, an increasing acceptance of the use of weaponry to achieve its aims. Notice the substantial opposition to the Iran deal, the main argument of which is that you cannot achieve what you want by talking to your adversary(diplomacy), you need to confront him with a gun in your hand. In a climate such as this, the notion of putting restrictions on the availability and use of guns has less appeal.

    #1086336

    Nancy H
    Participant

    If you know where to look, you can buy a gun today as easily as you can buy illegal drugs. There are lots of laws on the books for purchasing a new gun, but almost none for the unknown number (millions ?) of guns already floating around since before this country was a country.

    There is no comprehensive national system of gun registration. In fact, federal law prohibits the use of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to create any system of registration of firearms or firearm owners.

    Only the District of Columbia and Hawaii require the registration of ALL firearms.

    Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota & Vermont prohibit registries of firearms. (However, many of these prohibitions contain general categories of exceptions, such as records relating to persons who have been convicted of a crime.)

    Ohio has very few gun laws, other than the ones that pertain to concealed carry and the purchase of a new gun from a gun dealer. I found out last year just how non-existant Ohio’s gun laws are, when I had to deal with disposing of my husand’s collection after his death.

    I don’t agree with the roughly one third of Americans own a gun. I tend to lean more to the statistics from the NRA on gun ownership. They say it is closer to half. If you ask someone if they own a gun they might say “No” even if they do own one. Most don’t want people knowing they own a gun for reasons other than they plan to overthrow the government. Just look at your own comments and how you describe gun owners “vicious minority” and “extremists.” Most say No because they don’t want to be a target for criminals. When a criminal breaks into a residence, and finds a gun (or several) it is like hitting the lottery. The criminal will only get $25 or so for a new laptop, smartphone or TV. But they can get $500 or more for even the crappiest 25 caliber handgun.

    Oh, guess I should say I do, or would, support more gun control if it was a comprehensive national system. It is pointless to do at a local or state level. It would be much easier to regulate ammunition.

    #1086477
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    If you lean towards the NRA for your information on guns, you’ve already discounted your credibility.

    #1086481

    Nancy H
    Participant

    If you lean towards the NRA for your information on guns, you’ve already discounted your credibility.

    lol

    Not leaning towards the NRA, just think their numbers are a bit closer to how many people own a gun. Both sides of the guns argument cook the statistics to suite their point of view.

    My husband was retired military. He also shot competitively for the Marine Corps in both pistol and rifle. I had no idea how many he owned until he died. They were kept in a well fortified location and in the 30 years we were together he never got any of them out. He didn’t hunt and seemed to have zero interest in target shooting during the time I knew him.

    Finding more than a dozen guns was strange. Finding that none were registered, there was no way to register them, and no way to document how I disposed of them was frightening. It made me wonder what people mean by stricter gun control. We don’t have any gun control.

    #1086488

    Bear
    Participant

    From the Washington Post: There have been 204 mass shootings — and 204 days — in 2015 so far.

    These shootings have become so common that they typically don’t even make national news. Do you remember the four people shot in Cincinnati earlier this month? How about the seven in Cleveland, or the nine in Fort Wayne? Unless you live in these areas, you probably didn’t even hear about them.

    #1086553
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>joev wrote:</div>
    90% of gun owners support enhanced gun control, and only 33-40% of Americans even own guns. Be sure that those who fight loudest against it are a small but vicious minority.

    A minority doesn’t set policy without at least the tacit approval of the majority. I’m less interested in the ideology of a few extremists, and more interested in understanding why the general political will to enact gun control is actually decreasing.

    Or even, if you’re really curious, take a look at the estimated compliance rate with the NY SAFE act. It’s pathetic; something like %4. People seem to take laws against marijuana* more seriously.

    Consider Joev’s stats aren’t accurate, or at least don’t tell the whole story. The last attempt at “background checks” would have criminalized letting a friend shoot a firearm one legally owns while going shooting together. That’s nuts.

    Keep in mind also that violent crime itself continues to decline and you have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than being involved in a mass shooting event, by even loose definitions of “mass shooting”.

    * Which should be legalized, as an aside.

    #1086554
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    Keep in mind also that violent crime itself continues to decline and you have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than being involved in a mass shooting event, by even loose definitions of “mass shooting”.

    Then I guess everyone can stop arming themselves.

    #1086673
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>rus wrote:</div>
    Keep in mind also that violent crime itself continues to decline and you have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than being involved in a mass shooting event, by even loose definitions of “mass shooting”.

    Then I guess everyone can stop arming themselves.

    Concealed carry permits alone are up 150% among men and 270% among women since 2007. Just the production of firearms has increased 140% since 2008. Crime is down to levels not seen since the 1970’s.

    Individual rights are winning, Core. Whether it’s to marry the person you love regardless of sex, consume a plant or to have the means at hand to participate in your own defense regardless of physical condition.

    #1086674
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    Individual rights are winning, Core. Whether it’s to marry the person you love regardless of sex, consume a plant or to have the means at hand to participate in your own defense regardless of physical condition.

    What’s the fatality rate for gay marriage in this country these days?

    #1086677

    Nancy H
    Participant

    Concealed carry permits alone are up 150% among men and 270% among women since 2007.

    At least people who go through the concealed carry permit process have to also go through gun safety and target shooting classes.

    What’s the fatality rate for gay marriage in this country these days?

    In 2010, 1,017 women, almost three a day, were killed by their intimate partners.

    Research indicates that domestic violence among same-sex couples occurs at similar rates as domestic violence among straight couples.
    http://www.rohrbaughassociates.net/pdfs/same_sex.pdf

    I grew up in a rural area but have called Columbus home for 45 years. I was taught gun safety and had fired the various guns my parents owned before I was in first grade. Never really dug deeply into the pro-gun/anti-gun issue until I started reading this thread.

    The most interesting thing I found was, when you throw out the extremist on both sides, the pro vs anti gun regulation argument seems to divide along rural vs urban lines. People in rural areas have any number of reasons to keep a gun around the house: sport (target or hunting), dealing with wildlife (rabid raccoons, poisonous snakes, coyotes), personal protection, and occasionally one has to deal with putting down injured livestock. People in urban areas have guns for personal protection and sport.

    Most recent (non-inflammatory) stats I found were a 2005 Gallup Poll: 56% of the rural population owns a gun, 40% in the suburbs and 29% in cities.

    Between 1982 and 2013 the US had 62 mass shootings. Of these, 24 occurred in cities exceeding 100,000 residents, 31 within 35 miles of such cities, and 7 in rural areas.

    Personally, I don’t think it is possible to have gun control in the US. We can write laws but there is no way to enforce them. Criminals are not going to admit to owning a gun, so they most certainly won’t register them.

    #1086678

    Nancy H
    Participant

    What we need is better gun safety but that is about as likely as gun control.

    Depending on the statistics you use – somewhere between 30% and 45% of US households have a gun. Fairly consistent statistics (pro-gun and anti-gun sources) show that half of these gun owners don’t secure their weapons. They are in a desk drawers or closets. Most are stored with the ammunition. About a third are stored loaded. Unsafe storage statistics was the same in Wyoming as it was in Washington DC.

    From 2005-2010, 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings. More than a third of the victims were under 25 years of age.

    #1086692
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    Personally, I don’t think it is possible to have gun control in the US. We can write laws but there is no way to enforce them. Criminals are not going to admit to owning a gun, so they most certainly won’t register them.

    Yes, we should stop passing all laws that criminals may break.

    #1086693
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    Oh, and p.s. Funny you should bring up domestic violence stats…firearms were used in almost 70% of domestic violence homicides and abused women are 5 times more likely to be killed if their abuser owns a firearm.

    Great point…

    #1086694

    Bear
    Participant

    Individual rights are winning, Core. Whether it’s to marry the person you love regardless of sex, consume a plant or to have the means at hand to participate in your own defense regardless of physical condition.

    “Individual rights” seems like something of a wash here. Dylann Roof used his second-amendment right to carry firearms to deprive nine other individuals of their Constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Portraying the gun-rights issue as an issue of individual rights only for gun owners downplays the personhood of the (disproportionately female and minority) individuals on the business end of the gun.

    #1086695

    jackoh
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>rus wrote:</div>
    Individual rights are winning, Core. Whether it’s to marry the person you love regardless of sex, consume a plant or to have the means at hand to participate in your own defense regardless of physical condition.

    “Individual rights” seems like something of a wash here. Dylann Roof used his second-amendment right to carry firearms to deprive nine other individuals of their Constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Portraying the gun-rights issue as an issue of individual rights only for gun owners downplays the personhood of the (disproportionately female and minority) individuals on the business end of the gun.

    While I appreciate your approach here, it needs to be pointed out that there is no “ Constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” The clauses and sentiments articulated in the Declaration of Independence were not included in the Constitution (for various historical and political reasons). But it is certainly the case that a fundamental tension exists between the protection of individual rights and the rights or safety of the polity as a collective.

Viewing 15 posts - 2,626 through 2,640 (of 2,647 total)

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