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Schools as Great as our City!

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Schools as Great as our City!

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  • #548991

    James Ragland
    Participant

    Joev,

    Which charter schools have visited? In all honesty, this levy should not be about the small amount of money going to a select group of high performing charters.

    Which would you rather have down the street from your home: A successful charter school or a failing Columbus City School?

    #548992

    joev
    Participant

    Don’t tell me what the levy should and shouldn’t be about. The levy is a package deal, and it’s a raw deal. I’m against it. Your arrogance will get you nowhere.

    And that’s a false choice.

    #548993

    James Ragland
    Participant

    joev said:
    Don’t tell me what the levy should and shouldn’t be about. The levy is a package deal, and it’s a raw deal. I’m against it. Your arrogance will get you nowhere.

    And that’s a false choice.

    Why is there an assumption of arrogance? I think the question posed is a legitimate one. How do you consider it a false choice? I am really interested, so please-nothing negative involved on my end.

    #548994

    joev
    Participant

    Your arrogance is in telling my that I should ignore the part of the levy I don’t like (and pay 24% more to a system that doesn’t have its act together) so that your kid can have an AP class. I care about the strength of the system more than the outcomes this school year. The charter funding is a precedent I strongly oppose.

    We don’t have to accept a bad levy. The board and commission should hear that charter funding is not an acceptable use of public resources.

    #548995

    James Ragland
    Participant

    joev said:
    Your arrogance is in telling my that I should ignore the part of the levy I don’t like (and pay 24% more to a system that doesn’t have its act together) so that your kid can have an AP class. I care about the strength of the system more than the outcomes this school year. The charter funding is a precedent I strongly oppose.

    Understood. Which charter schools have you been to visit? Would you rather have a successful charter or a failing CCS school in your neighborhood? Do you think that the failure of this levy will be a blow to charters?

    #548996

    SusanB
    Participant

    Clearly throwing more money at a school system rife with mismanagement is not a solution. I cannot fathom why some people think this is a good idea.

    #548997

    Lu
    Participant

    pez said:
    For those who are slideshow weary…

    20 – Bloom-Carroll Local Schools $8,669
    19 – North Fork Local Schools $8,839
    18 – Northridge Local Schools $8,860
    17 – Liberty Union-Thurston Local Schools $8,962
    16 – London City Schools $8,976
    15 – Licking Valley Local Schools $9,053
    14 – Teays Valley Local Schools $9,273
    13 – Southwest Licking Local Schools $9,283
    12 – Big Walnut Local Schools $9,342
    11 – Jefferson Local Schools $9,345
    10 – Whitehall City Schools $11,174
    9 – Hilliard City Schools $11,336
    8 – Gahanna-Jefferson City Schools $11,425
    7 – New Albany-Plain Local Schools $12,138
    6 – Dublin City Schools $12,709
    5 – Worthington City Schools $13,366
    4 – Bexley City Schools $14,347
    3 – Columbus City Schools $14,614
    2 – Upper Arlington City Schools $15,157
    1 – Grandview Heights City Schools $15,318

    Well this is very eye-opening and seals the deal for me.

    #548998

    James Ragland
    Participant

    And by the way, I do not think you are arrogant for disagreeing with me. I would hope that you would offer me the same respect. We have opposing views, but I am respectful of your viewpoint. That is the purpose of asking the questions I have. Which, by the way you have yet to answer.

    #548999

    Analogue Kid
    Participant

    CCS isn’t going to shrivel up and die if this proposal doesn’t pass this year. Having lived through levy defeats before, I can tell you its only problematic when you go many years or decades without a new levy. A message needs to be sent to the mayor and the board that this proposal is no good without the public knowing that at the very least the people in charge are honest.

    #549000

    joev
    Participant

    James Ragland said:
    Understood. Which charter schools have you been to visit? Would you rather have a successful charter or a failing CCS school in your neighborhood? Do you think that the failure of this levy will be a blow to charters?

    I haven’t visited any charter schools. I haven’t visited Syria either, as I don’t think visiting is a requirement to having an informed opinion on a matter.

    Your second question is a false choice. I would rather have a public school system that treats all students equally with one set of standards that ensures no one falls through the cracks. I only see disorganization and gaps when I see a large number of charter schools operating in our community. I am willing to let things get worse in the short term to ensure they get better in the long term. The way to strengthen the public school system is not to divert assets away from it. It’s to fund schools adequately (but not lavishly) and make small improvements over time that make people comfortable enough to send their children.

    #549001

    James Ragland
    Participant

    Analogue Kid said:
    CCS isn’t going to shrivel up and die if this proposal doesn’t pass this year. Having lived through levy defeats before, I can tell you its only problematic when you go many years or decades without a new levy. A message needs to be sent to the mayor and the board that this proposal is no good without the public knowing that at the very least the people in charge are honest.

    I don’t disagree about the honesty factor. What I am trying to get people to understand is that they have had and will continue to have opportunities to vote for individuals who they feel will not betray the public’s trust. There is a process by which you can remove elected officials from office. Show them your anger by doing so. By all means, vote them out; but I am concerned that people are acting as if they are givng the resources to the adults and not the kids. I admit to you that our leadership structure has failed. Change it. Don’t hurt the kids, though. They were not the ones who committed the crimes.

    #549002

    James Ragland
    Participant

    joev said:
    I haven’t visited any charter schools. I haven’t visited Syria either, as I don’t think visiting is a requirement to having an informed opinion on a matter.

    Your second question is a false choice. I would rather have a public school system that treats all students equally with one set of standards that ensures no one falls through the cracks. I only see disorganization and gaps when I see a large number of charter schools operating in our community. I am willing to let things get worse in the short term to ensure they get better in the long term. The way to strengthen the public school system is not to divert assets away from it. It’s to fund schools adequately (but not lavishly) and make small improvements over time that make people comfortable enough to send their children.

    By “treats all students equally” do you mean by geographical boundaries? I think there is a clear distinction between CCS and Olentangy. It might cost more to educate here in Columbus, but the school systems, while both public, are certainly not equal.
    This levy’s passage will, in my opinion streamline the number of Charter schools in Central Ohio. The goal is to have high performing schools in our neighborhoods. I don’t think people care what name is on the front of the school (CCS or JOEV Academy). If both are producing great results, and the structure is in place to continue this trend, I’m not certain why you would want to close on entity just for the sake of closing it.
    Do you think that the thousands of parents in CCS whose children are waitlisted for “Alternative Schools” on a yearly basis feel their children are treated equally? Why, if you would support a system that operates by denying families their choice in the highest performing schools in the system, can you not see the logic in allowing parents to decide to go to any alternative that they feel best suits them?
    I think the question is rhetorical, but that is exactly why I asked it. Good schools are good schools. Private, public, Charter, Faith based. To me and to my neighbors it does not matter. Of course we would prefer a high performing charter in our neighborhood over a public school that is failing? Who wouldn’t want a school that increases your property value and appeals to more responsible families coming into your community? Who cares what the name of the school is and who is running it?
    Bad charters will soon go away. Families will no longer support them by sending their children there. This process gives resources to those who are at the higher end of the charter spectrum. Going to Syria to form an opinion may not be feasible. Visiting a charter school that is a few miles from your neighborhood is not outside of the realm of possibility. That is something you can do, and I would encourage you (and accompany you if you like) to do so.
    Another question, would you support legislation that requires all public district schools to be held at the same standards as charters? Would you support these standards if the consequences for failing to meet them were the same across the board (if a failing charter has to close, then a failing public school would have to as well)? You mentioned equality in your post, and I am all for it. I believe competition brings out the best in us, and if my charter is not producing good students, then it should close. At the same time, I feel if a public school is not producing good students, it should close as well. I’m interested in your thoughts.

    #549003

    jackoh
    Participant

    There is an aspect of the public education system that seems not to have been taken into account in this discussion and that may have bearing on the assessment of how well public tax dollars are spent. In the push for educational excellence, which cannot be achieved for all pupils all of the time, what is missed is one of the prime functions of the public education system. That is, at the elementary level it functions as a public funded babysitting service so that the adults can do other things; and at the middle and high school level it functions as a temporary juvenile detention center to keep those age kids off the streets. The referenced grades assigned to the schools in the publications cited in this thread do not indicate how well this function is performed, but it is a vital one and the extent to which tax dollars support those school systems given their respective value to the community in this regard should be taken into account.

    #549004

    Analogue Kid
    Participant

    James Ragland said:
    I don’t disagree about the honesty factor. What I am trying to get people to understand is that they have had and will continue to have opportunities to vote for individuals who they feel will not betray the public’s trust. There is a process by which you can remove elected officials from office. Show them your anger by doing so. By all means, vote them out; but I am concerned that people are acting as if they are givng the resources to the adults and not the kids. I admit to you that our leadership structure has failed. Change it. Don’t hurt the kids, though. They were not the ones who committed the crimes.

    You keep repeating the “think of the children” argument, but I AM thinking of the kids here. They are not served well by a system that pisses away so much tax money on administrators and other non-classroom related spending. Like it or not, we are giving the resources to the adults and entrusting that they will use them wisely and efficiently. We’re not handing out wads of cash to 6 year olds. Unfortunately, the “adults” on the school board have not shown they are capable of making the best use of tax dollars. I can’t vote for this levy and *hope* we get some competent people in charge down the road.

    Build the trust first, then ask for funding.

    #549005

    howatzer
    Participant

    ^ +1
    My worry, though, is that if this levy fails, its failure will be blamed on the charter school funding component, and not the lack of accountability shown by CCS. It offers a way for the CCS establishment to blame someone else if the levy fails.

    I know even a lot of anti-charter folks would still vote for this thing if it offered meaningful reforms, top to bottom, along with it.

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 126 total)

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