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Schools as Great as our City!

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Schools as Great as our City!

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  • #548957

    lattethunder
    Participant

    Miriam Bowers Abbott said:

    @lattethunder
    Here’s how it works for CCS: all the local neighborhood money goes into one school system. CCS equally distributes the money to neighborhood schools throughout the city system.

    Schools in Clintonville thrive, other schools in other neighborhoods might not . . . but they all are funded the same way. Clintonville (my neighborhood) tax money doesn’t really stay in the neighborhood to support its own schools in any way.

    And NDaEast: YEAH.

    Do you have a source for this? I am well aware that property taxes are dispersed by district, but do you have a source that shows CCSs disperses all money equally?

    #548958

    oh, I’m not even sure CCS would disclose that bit. I promise you, the “rich” areas don’t get special stuff. My kids don’t have air conditioning at their school (and no hope for it, I understand -check out the schools in poorer neighborhoods, though- very nice facilities), and a big parent group just went out and raised money so it could put paint on the neighborhood’s middle school walls.

    #548959

    lattethunder
    Participant

    Miriam Bowers Abbott said:
    I promise you, the “rich” areas don’t get special stuff.

    I’m not trying to say the rich areas get “special” stuff. The argument that schools in poor areas suck because poor people suck doesn’t hold water. I was always under the impression that better areas get more funding (which, as anyone who’s seen a levy pass before realizes, doesn’t equal better stuff). I could be wrong, so if someone has access to that info I’d like to see it.

    #548960

    Aaron Marshall
    Participant

    NDaEast said:
    “Ruining thousands of kids educational opportunities” is exactly what CCS has done through the data scandal. Saying “no” to a bad levy proposal is not the same as what has been done by many of the same people who are now saying “send us more money, we have a solution.”

    There are a few factual inaccuracies in some of these posts — not picking on this poster. A lot of people talk about “non profit” versus “for profit” charters. Actually, all the charters schools themselves are by definition “non profit,” though some may have “for profit” sponsors (like White Hat). So the policy passed by the Board of Education to only fund non profit charters is meaningless — they are all nonprofit.

    Second, charter schools do not get local dollars. They get state dollars, mostly on a per-capita (per head) basis, though they do not get a facilities payment from the state like traditional school districts do. Nor do they get local property tax dollars. This unprecedented proposed levy would make Columbus the only Ohio city to provide local property tax dollars to charter schools, and theoretically at least it would exacerbate the problem identified by Ohio Supreme Court’s ruling in DeRolph that the state system of funding schools through property taxes is unconstitutional.

    We would, in effect, be double-funding two competing school systems and creating two redundant administrator heavy infrastructures (it takes a lot of administration to oversee state and federal dollars and education standards). The Dispatch got its panties in a bunch when Mike Wiles voiced the true fact that no one at the City of Columbus or on the CEC has ever run a school – so how did they get to be experts so fast? What happened to the Mayor’s Office on Education? — didn’t it fold and collapse several years back? — what were the outcomes? — did it change education in Columbus? Current state law funds charters at a level the General Assembly (in all its wisdom) thinks appropriate. The Mayor and our political leaders asked the General Assembly for its help in picking our pockets to provide more funding for charters — and anyone who thinks this first $8.5M bite at the apple is the last is living in dream world. Passing this levy creates another demand and another constituency for more property tax dollars.

    For the state to MANDATE a local levy to support charter schools is unconscionable. It is the unholy marriage between people on the right who want to privatize everything and do away with unions, and people on the left who despise the non-union charter schools but will support a charter school levy that envisions taking 50% of the remaining CCS kids from union teachers because it is the only way to get corporate support for a 2013 levy that will prevent short-term teacher union layoffs. But that is an invented crisis, because the people would have supported a status quo “do no harm” operating levy for CCS while all the problems got ironed out. Instead, the politicians got greedy and are swinging for the fences. No. No. No. And Hell No.

    Not to nitpick you here, but Cleveland’s last school levy shared “local” dollars with charters.

    #548961

    Aaron Marshall
    Participant

    lattethunder said:
    I’m not trying to say the rich areas get “special” stuff. The argument that schools in poor areas suck because poor people suck doesn’t hold water. I was always under the impression that better areas get more funding (which, as anyone who’s seen a levy pass before realizes, doesn’t equal better stuff). I could be wrong, so if someone has access to that info I’d like to see it.

    I don’t have a link for you, but I do know that WITHIN a district funding is equalized as Miriam stated.
    The issue of better areas getting more funding has to do with the disparity in property values between poor and rich districts.
    The property poorest districts are actually in Southeast Ohio (Trimble Local was the poorest) while the Dublins, Beachwoods etc are the property richest districts.
    The state has a sliding scale share of funding that it puts in to try to balance out this inequity between districts. The Ohio Supreme Court ruled four times that the system of funding schools in this state was still inadequate before giving up jurisdiction.

    However, within a given district such as Columbus, every school gets the same funding based on a per-pupil allotment. Not that booster clubs/PTAs can’t raise additional dollars…

    #548963

    NDaEast
    Participant

    Aaron Marshall said:
    Not to nitpick you here, but Cleveland’s last school levy shared “local” dollars with charters.

    Correcting facts is never nit-picking. Thanks!

    #548964

    Aaron Marshall
    Participant

    There’s also the different millage rates that districts have chosen to tax themselves at…but probably getting a little too far in the weeds…

    #548965

    kelly_S
    Member

    lattethunder said:
    I’m not trying to say the rich areas get “special” stuff. The argument that schools in poor areas suck because poor people suck doesn’t hold water. I was always under the impression that better areas get more funding (which, as anyone who’s seen a levy pass before realizes, doesn’t equal better stuff). I could be wrong, so if someone has access to that info I’d like to see it.

    “The argument that schools in poor areas suck because poor people suck doesn’t hold water.”

    Agreed. But it’s not that simple. Poverty (generational poverty in particular) presents problems that we then expect our public schools to “solve.” Children who are food or housing insecure, who have had needs go unmet time and time again are more challenging to educate. One small example — children living in poverty are far more likely to be exposed to toxins such as cigarette smoke and lead, which can dramatically affect a child’s ability to learn.

    When we judge a school’s performance by its test scores, what we are really doing is taking a round-about way of assessing the poverty rate of the school, as the two are almost always tightly related. Yes, there are exceptions. Some schools figure out how to leverage community and other resources in more advantageous ways.

    So when this mayor says are schools have failed us, his is being crassly disingenuous. One in five children in this country lives in poverty. Who is failing who here?

    #548966

    James Ragland
    Participant

    joev said:
    If this is true, then there would never be a reason to vote against a school levy. This is a bad levy, mucked up with bad policy. We should not support a bad policy “because of the children.” The children are going to be better served in the long run with good policy. Not a money dump poorly planned band aid.

    What exactly will happen to your children if the school system goes on with its present (generous) funding?

    My biggest concerns are cuts to teachers and AP courses that at the very least make an attempt at making my son (short term) competitive for college. The teachers will be cut first, then they will cut courses that very few students in the district are taking. My son is one of very few kids scheduled for the AP courses he is taking. I do not want to see them off the table.

    #548967

    Big_Ford_Country84
    Participant

    Fix they system first before asking for more money to plug the leaks.
    #1 remove all School property tax from the home owners, make an across the board sales tax and lottery tax(what ever happened there?)or let me send ALL my tax dollars where my student goes. Once my child is out of school I will not vote for ANY funding for Public schools EVER.
    #2 Keep the alternative schools, Charter and lotto option, re-evaluate ALL performing schools and close SUB PAR schools and fire the teachers, staff and admin of said sub par schools.
    #3 teachers who perform well or exceed expectations GIVE THEM A RAISE (put the incentive out there to teach don’t teach to the test)
    #4 School board only gets paid if the ALL the schools perform (hmm no pay if you have any school failing or in academic emergency) This will save alot of money.
    #5 Invest in the students (new schools are a start, supplies and tools will help too)
    #6 this is a big one PARENTS got to step up (support and teach your own kids, know what they are learning) to many don’t give a Sht parents are raiseing don’t give a sht kids. LEARNING STARTS AT HOME!
    #7 NEW CLASS manners and respect, no bullying I want to learn class. Rude, foul mouth, not wanting an education and bully students need to be kicked out till they can fit in the system. It would be up to the parents to make them comply. Again IT STARTS AT HOME

    #548969

    Graybeak
    Participant

    Big_Ford_Country84 said:
    #1 remove all School property tax from the home owners, make an across the board sales tax and lottery tax(what ever happened there?)or let me send ALL my tax dollars where my student goes. Once my child is out of school I will not vote for ANY funding for Public schools EVER.

    By that same logic, why should anyone who has no children pay anything to teach your child?

    #548970

    mrsgeedeck
    Participant

    In an ideal world learning does start at home, but in the real world, there are a lot of single parents out there working whatever shift they can take to financially support their kids and thereby won’t be home to help with homework, or pack lunch. Those parents need to be assured that their sacrifice is worth something in terms of their child getting a reasonable education.

    #548971

    Anyone else curious about the public/private partnership board? The members of this board would have influence over about $200 million dollars over the next five years. Who will be represented on this panel? Parents? Small business? Effective principals? Actual classroom teachers?

    The CEC was supposed to be the beginnings of such a partnership: it’s hard to imagine something less inclusive of CCS families, in terms of seats-at-the-table.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice . . .

    #548972

    James Ragland
    Participant

    Miriam Bowers Abbott said:
    Anyone else curious about the public/private partnership board? The members of this board would have influence over about $200 million dollars over the next five years. Who will be represented on this panel? Parents? Small business? Effective principals? Actual classroom teachers?

    The CEC was supposed to be the beginnings of such a partnership: it’s hard to imagine something less inclusive of CCS families, in terms of seats-at-the-table.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice . . .

    I can’t fault you here. I have always had an issue with the lack of major parent representation on the Commission. I’m not sure why parents voices were not valued, but they will need our voices to have a successful outcome for the levy. I don’t know the process for the Board you speak of, but I will ask this weekend and get back to you. The Superintendent meets with all PTA’s on Saturday,

    #548973

    lattethunder
    Participant

    kelly_S said:
    “The argument that schools in poor areas suck because poor people suck doesn’t hold water.”

    Agreed. But it’s not that simple. Poverty (generational poverty in particular) presents problems that we then expect our public schools to “solve.” Children who are food or housing insecure, who have had needs go unmet time and time again are more challenging to educate. One small example — children living in poverty are far more likely to be exposed to toxins such as cigarette smoke and lead, which can dramatically affect a child’s ability to learn.

    When we judge a school’s performance by its test scores, what we are really doing is taking a round-about way of assessing the poverty rate of the school, as the two are almost always tightly related. Yes, there are exceptions. Some schools figure out how to leverage community and other resources in more advantageous ways.

    So when this mayor says are schools have failed us, his is being crassly disingenuous. One in five children in this country lives in poverty. Who is failing who here?

    Your argument isn’t the same as what was posted earlier. The argument that poor people move to poor areas because they don’t care about the schools, which is why they suck, is absolutely ridiculous.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 126 total)

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