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Police Suggest that People Move from Crime-ridden Areas

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics Police Suggest that People Move from Crime-ridden Areas

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Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 72 total)
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  • #312405

    HeySquare
    Participant

    TT, you assume a level of financial flexibility that doesn’t really exist in government. Civil service laws were pretty much instituted to eliminate that flexibility because the potential for abuse was high, and the potential for improvement was modest.

    Since most government work falls into the category of either a service or regulatory model, how do we look at examples of success or failure? Let’s take trash collection. For you, the consumer, successful trash collection means that your trash is collected regularly, on scheduled days and times, with no interruption. I, as a consumer, have a 100% success rate on my trash collection. You can’t do any better than that. So by your model, do our trash collectors get a raise?

    Let’s look at the Building Permits section, a regulatory function. While part of their job is to facilitate building permits, their job is also to enforce the building code as written under (I believe) state law. While customer service is important, the *most* important function of their job is to make sure that buildings are built or rehabilitated to code so that you and I have a safe environment to work and live in. So for me, as a consumer, my success rate is also 100%, since I haven’t died in a fire or a building collapse, someone hasn’t built a chemical factory next to my house, and there are no physical obstructions preventing me from getting to and from my house each day. Do they get a raise?

    #312406

    berdawn
    Member

    Schoolboy wrote >>
    its up to the people to change a neighborhood anyways
    not sure why this surprises anyone
    also, if i were a cop… no laughing… i’d never live in the same area as my patrol
    it’s just setting you up for payback

    considering the size of each precinct or patrol, one would have a considerable number of options other than one’s immediate area of responsibility.

    #312407

    Tigertree wrote >>
    @heysquare, but like the private sector they could still operate with a set amount of cash that gets distributed based on performance. Base could be lower, promotions based on performance with economic incentives linked. Poor performers get weeded out like every other business. Teachers as well…

    Agreed! Just think if someone in the private sector responded to a customer complaint that way; i.e. You call Time Warner to complain and they tell you if you don’t like it, move to WOW. I’m sure they wouldn’t have their job long at all.

    #312408

    Tigertree
    Member

    @heysquare, I am sorry but your attempting to derail my argument with stats that have nothing to do with the two areas we are talking about. There is provable data that can be tied to both teacher and police officer/department performance. Lower crime rates and better student performance. The money coming in does not need to be flexible, new revenue streams do not need to be created just a change in the way it’s allocated going out.

    #312409

    turnedNOTburned
    Participant

    I wonder if someone publishes stats on Crime rate vs Money spent on police/fire/etc. Its missing some other key components (population, unemployment, education level, etc), but, it’d be an interesting analysis none the less. Might point to other cities that are doing it better with less money.

    #312410

    joev
    Participant

    Tigertree wrote >>
    @heysquare, I am sorry but your attempting to derail my argument with stats that have nothing to do with the two areas we are talking about. There is provable data that can be tied to both teacher and police officer/department performance. Lower crime rates and better student performance. The money coming in does not need to be flexible, new revenue streams do not need to be created just a change in the way it’s allocated going out.

    But in both situations, there’s something big being ignored in this argument. People are responsible for their actions. Most schools that are bad aren’t in that situation because of a lack of resources. Most have decent teachers. The biggest contributor to bad schools is bad (uninvolved) parents.
    The same goes for crime in neighborhoods. If the police apprehend every criminal and crime still occurs, it’s because some people in that neighborhood choose to continue being criminals. Crime rate isn’t a fair measure – the rate of successful prosecution is, but that also depends on the legal side of the criminal justice equasion.

    #312411

    drew
    Participant

    Heysquare – in a situation like trash collection, I’d agree that there is no need for using merit pay as an incentive (at least if my own experience with local trash collection is any guide).

    Assuming there are no serious quality lapses to make note of, I’d evaluate the employees of a building permits section based upon efficiency. After all, the permit process can be a significant economic drag on new developments…

    When it comes to the police, I’d say the problem is that there are too many ways in which to evaluate performance, not too few. Public complaints might be a good place to start, though.

    #312412

    turnedNOTburned
    Participant

    Crime Statistics by City
    Some interesting wikipedia statistics (caveat: this IS wikipedia, LOL)

    It looks like we’re 50% better than Cleveland and Cincy on a number of metrics. Maybe they should move here, hehe

    #312413

    JonMyers
    Participant

    @HeySquare – The success rate of trash collection in the Short North is a joke. At least 2 of the 4 pickups a month for emptying the public street trash containers are a failure.

    #312414

    Rockmastermike
    Participant

    hmm… the article says there were 20 complaints of this, I assume this was over a year period.

    Out of how many thousand police calls? How many total officers?

    Clearly this is not a “rampant” problem, but perhaps a few people who need to perhaps not say every single thing that comes to their minds.

    One also wonders exactly how the conversations went. It’s my experience that a snarky comment often gets one in reply… I can EASILLY picture myself making such a comment (or worse) in reply to someone who is being difficult, but this is one of the reasons I’m not going to become a cop. It’s rather unprofessional to say something like that, and you deal with difficult people every single time you come to work.

    In any case, this hardly sounds to me like a huge hairy deal. More like a few officers need to be reminded they are representatives of something larger then themselves.

    #312415

    HeySquare
    Participant

    Tigertree wrote >>
    @heysquare, I am sorry but your attempting to derail my argument with stats that have nothing to do with the two areas we are talking about. There is provable data that can be tied to both teacher and police officer/department performance. Lower crime rates and better student performance.

    The derail was in JonMyers post, which specifically referenced “city services”. Those are city services, as are the police. Teachers, however, are a different system.

    I am sure that there is data that proves that incentive-style pay systems may improve police officer efficiency. I do challenge you, however, to find a study that a) institute that system using equal funding to the existing systems and b) that prove that those systems are corelated to lower crime rates. I suspect that you can find a study that can find efficient ways to police, fiscally prudent ways to police, and effective (i.e. lower crime rates) ways to police. But I suspect each of those goals will have a very specific set of costs associated with them.

    ETA: or what Drew said :). Drew… that is exactly what I am getting at. I don’t doubt that there are ways to improve public sector performance.

    #312416

    somertimeoh
    Participant

    I was just thinking, there’s two sides to every story right. How many times have we told people that complain about parking, noise, festival inconveniences, etc. to move back to the ‘burbs? Is it possible this the sentiment they are trying to express, but not doing it in a tactful manner? I’m not saying we have to overlook serious violations as urban dwellers, but if you live on campus and call the cops every time some kids are having a party, you should move. In the old place, if I called the cops every time some crazy dude was singing too loud while waiting for the bus (as annoying as it was), they’d probably tell me to move. Just a thought…

    #312417

    HeySquare
    Participant

    And to stem off of Somer’s post… it could be genuine concern.

    The police may genuinely know there is an issue. But knowing that there is a huge potential for danger, and having a provable offense that will stick in court are two different things. Is it in your best interest to wait until you are buglarized or raped or killed so that the police can act?

    I used to have crappy neighbors that partied all the time. The police could cite them for noise violations. I got great response from the police, and they did the best they could. However, even the best response from the police still meant that I was calling to complain because my neighbors were screaming outside my bedroom window at 3AM. The damage was done by then. My day was shot, and my week was usually a wreck. The police cannot enforce quality of life, and we all do have to make choices based on the level of disturbance we can tolerate.

    #312418

    myliftkk
    Participant

    HeySquare wrote >>

    Tigertree wrote >>
    @heysquare, I am sorry but your attempting to derail my argument with stats that have nothing to do with the two areas we are talking about. There is provable data that can be tied to both teacher and police officer/department performance. Lower crime rates and better student performance.

    The derail was in JonMyers post, which specifically referenced “city services”. Those are city services, as are the police. Teachers, however, are a different system.
    I am sure that there is data that proves that incentive-style pay systems may improve police officer efficiency. I do challenge you, however, to find a study that a) institute that system using equal funding to the existing systems and b) that prove that those systems are corelated to lower crime rates. I suspect that you can find a study that can find efficient ways to police, fiscally prudent ways to police, and effective (i.e. lower crime rates) ways to police. But I suspect each of those goals will have a very specific set of costs associated with them.
    ETA: or what Drew said :). Drew… that is exactly what I am getting at. I don’t doubt that there are ways to improve public sector performance.

    One could also point out that correlation does not prove causation. And when you actually get down to incentive pay as the primary reward mechanism, you have be extremely careful in watching for perverse incentives that get created as a result.

    Want crime statistics to look better, don’t document crimes. It’s worked for years :)

    #312419
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    HeySquare wrote >>
    The police cannot enforce quality of life, and we all do have to make choices based on the level of disturbance we can tolerate.

    Very insightful.

    I was talking about this news item with a friend today. He said complaining about petty crime in the city was like moving to the country and complaining about the smell of manure.

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