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OSU Fires Band Director Jon Waters

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion OSU Fires Band Director Jon Waters

Viewing 15 posts - 136 through 150 (of 179 total)
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  • #1037743

    Coy
    Participant

    I take it it means nothing that he was part of the band as a student in the 90’s, then a Grad Assistant, then assistant director, before ultimately becoming Director?
    So, being a part of the culture and doing (nearly) nothing about it, ostensibly condoning it for over a decade in different levels of leadership within the band, is apparently inconsequential.

    One huge issue that OSU has is its willingness to hire former students with multiple degrees from OSU.
    You end up with people in positions of power in administration or as faculty that have had zero other cultural and professional experience outside of the institution. This is not a good thing.
    It can be stifling as these folks continue to tow the line, and doesn’t give the students they serve the diversity of viewpoints they deserve by having people in positions of power that have outside experience and did not get their position through the good ol’ boys network.

    These kind of hires are all too willing to look the other way at the expense of students to protect the only job they’ve known. And, the rest of the folks who have been similarly indoctrinated into the OSU higher up culture have previously been all too willing to protect each other above all else.
    I’ve seen it at play elsewhere at the University, and know of some seriously bad behavior from high level administrators/faculty that I chalk up to this problem.

    I don’t think Waters is a bad dude, but what happened here could be symptomatic of what I just laid out.
    So, for me personally, seeing a possible shift in this untouchable status is a healthy thing, though there are definitely other offices than the Band I’d be more interested in seeing the same scrutiny applied.

    #1037744
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    I take it it means nothing that he was part of the band as a student in the 90′s, then a Grad Assistant, then assistant director, before ultimately becoming Director?<br>

    Correct, that means absolutely nothing.

    As far as “ostensibly condoning”, you have absolutely nothing to support that statement. He wasn’t in a position of responsibility for what was going on, you aren’t privy to his position on it during that time. All we are aware of is how he handled it once it was his responsibility…and based on the report linked above, the statements of numerous members of the band, and his own employment review from the university, he was handling it aggressively and admirably.

    #1037745
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    p.s. If you really want to use past positions as a point of reference here, I’d recommend you review the firing…and rehiring…of Erwin Chemerinsky.

    #1037761

    Coy
    Participant

    “Not in a position of responsibility?”
    What was he paid for then, as a GA first then Asst Director for over a decade?
    He wasn’t a mentor in any way to the many students that were in the band from the late 90s on?
    Come on, man, you can’t really believe that… such a weak argument there…

    (whatever happened with Erwin, we’re talking about OSU culture here, and I’ve outlined my concerns with the patterns in my previous post)

    #1037805

    Mercurius
    Participant

    “Not in a position of responsibility?”<br>
    What was he paid for then, as a GA first then Asst Director for over a decade?<br>
    He wasn’t a mentor in any way to the many students that were in the band from the late 90s on?<br>
    Come on, man, you can’t really believe that… such a weak argument there…

    (whatever happened with Erwin, we’re talking about OSU culture here, and I’ve outlined my concerns with the patterns in my previous post)

    Did you go to college? Do you know what a GA does and is paid? Hint: they are a student. I think Core has a great argument and Coy argument is biased and based on false facts and ad hominem.

    #1037819
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    “Not in a position of responsibility?”<br>

    whatever happened with Erwin

    What happened with Erwin is significant though, as he was summarily fired by Drake despite it being a poor decision…which Drake later had to reverse.

    #1037821

    pez
    Participant

    I don’t always agree with Coremodels, but he’s batting 1000 in this thread. The OSU trustees and the new president may or may not have made the right call, but their refusal to even explore the possibility that they may have been wrong is a real problem.

    #1037835

    Coy
    Participant

    Did you go to college? Do you know what a GA does and is paid? Hint: they are a student. I think Core has a great argument and Coy argument is biased and based on false facts and ad hominem.

    Yes, and yes.. considering I have been one personally.
    A GA is a student that is paid to hold an administrative position, and working with undergrads as a supervisor or mentor is not unusual at all.
    And behaving like a professional is a basic expectation of the job anywhere else on campus.
    You won’t, for instance, find a GA working in the library requiring new undergrad employees they supervise to put “a condom on a banana placed between the GA legs” as reported by the Office of Compliance.

    Did you go to OSU? Have you ever been a GA?
    Do YOU have any idea the multitude of various duties GA, GTA, and GRA students perform on campus?
    What facts are you calling me out on, exactly?

    And, how about you look up what ad hominem means for starters?
    I’m not basing my argument on any emotional bias. I’m saying directly that the positions of GA and Asst Director would have been the positions of authority over undergrads to have the most hands on work with them. Therefore one would expect that Waters was aware of the behavior (for, like 15yrs) that is called out in the Glaros report that is also previous to him being promoted to Director.

    #1037836

    Coy
    Participant

    What happened with Erwin is significant though, as he was summarily fired by Drake despite it being a poor decision…which Drake later had to reverse.

    Not saying it doesn’t hold meaning but he acknowledged the mistake, fixed it, and all the calls for his head evidently withered away, considering he now is at the top of one of the largest land grant Universities in the country. Some might say it shows a willingness to take criticism and learn from it.

    The fact that someone made a mistake that one time is not evidence that every other action they take is null and void just cause you disagree with it.

    I do think, however, that if you were going to work the angle that the head(s) of the University somehow manipulated this situation and used Waters as a scapegoat that you’d be better served looking elsewhere than Drake. He’s got to make the call from the info he gets.. be it reports, senior leadership advice, or whatnot.
    OSU is in the middle of a serious Title IX review and he can’t risk not being aggressive in addressing any Title IX issues, which this was.
    He walked into a hot mess and I don’t know how he could be expected to make any other decision… thats the long and short of my argument, though I can respect your personal angle. You’ve at least been far more reasonable in your discussion than many…

    #1037838

    Coy
    Participant

    I don’t always agree with Coremodels, but he’s batting 1000 in this thread. The OSU trustees and the new president may or may not have made the right call, but their refusal to even explore the possibility that they may have been wrong is a real problem.

    So, what exactly is the independent investigation, then?

    #1037855

    pez
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>pez wrote:</div>
    I don’t always agree with Coremodels, but he’s batting 1000 in this thread. The OSU trustees and the new president may or may not have made the right call, but their refusal to even explore the possibility that they may have been wrong is a real problem.

    So, what exactly is the independent investigation, then?

    The university has given little detail of what the investigation would be other than some very broad terms. They, and Betty Montgomery have stated that it will not be a rehash of the one that led to Waters’ firing.

    #1038121

    News
    Participant

    Ohio State hears from ex-band director’s backers
    Posted: Aug 29, 2014 1:59 PM EDT
    By JULIE CARR SMYTH
    Associated Press

    COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) – Angry backers of Ohio State’s fired marching band director made a splashy showing at a trustee meeting Friday, playing their horns, wearing T-shirts supporting him and urging the board to keep discussions on the matter open.

    READ MORE: http://www.nbc4i.com/story/26405327/ohio-state-hears-from-ex-band-directors-backers

    #1038123
    vestanpance
    vestanpance
    Participant

    I wonder if it will be ugly this Saturday. I didn’t hear of anything happening last saturday even though the crowd was buckeye dominated.

    #1038145

    gramarye
    Participant

    Depends on what you mean by getting “ugly.” I imagine you’ll see some “We Stand With Jon” shirts and signs, but I hope that nothing genuinely disruptive happens, even at halftime when the cameras will likely be elsewhere.

    #1038164

    James Ragland
    Participant

    I don’t always agree with Coremodels, but he’s batting 1000 in this thread. The OSU trustees and the new president may or may not have made the right call, but their refusal to even explore the possibility that they may have been wrong is a real problem.

    Is it a problem that they refuse to explore the possibility or is it a problem that they refuse to explore the possibility due to public pressure?

    There is a difference. Ohio State cannot operate by the will of public opinion. The Board all knows how supportive Buckeye Nation is of the football team, and the band; however the Board must not engage in poll politics. That is to say that they must make decisions , and maintain them in spite of the fact that the public may not like the decision they made. Their main focus is to protect the University at all costs, and this decision upholds that. Just think how crazy it would be if the BOT changed decisions based on the fact that the public disliked them. I am sure Woody Hayes would have been retained. I don’t personally remember that, but it seemed to me like Earle Bruce probably had public opinion on his side too. If the Board yields here, what’s next? Will the public decides who leads the Law School? Does Buckeye Nation hire the next University Police Chief?

    In my opinion the President, and the Board of Trustees made a decision that legally puts Ohio State on solid footing. Which lawsuit would you rather defend? The lawsuit from a former or current student that alleges sexual harassment and hazing, knowing the information that current and former band members openly admit to? OR, the lawsuit from the fired leader of the band that did not do enough to change the culture in the band and may have openly participated in some of the non-sanctioned events? It’s really a no-brainer. Too much evidence to support the firing, in my opinion.

    You may fine-tooth comb the report for inaccuracies, and you very-well may have “witnesses” that will come forward and “admit” that none of the stuff even happened; however I am confident that Ohio State is well lawyered enough to make certain they can win any case Waters can produce in real court. The bottom line is, the University has made its statement. Waters has every right to sue them. I hope, for his sake and that of the band that he does not.

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