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Occupy Wall Street Protests

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  • #463368

    JonMyers
    Participant

    jeff_r said:
    You strike me as someone who’s pretty pragmatic and goal oriented; someone who likes outcomes and results. It’s not surprising then that when you look at OWS you see something leaderless, unfocused, and rudderless. That’s a perfectly valid critique if your expectation is that OWS should be working toward some sort of quantifiable change.

    That could be. I’ll take that as a compliment. Moreover, I see a lot of human productivity being squandered on this movement. Productivity and focus that could could be channeled into a vision and action that is in step with where the inevitable future is headed.

    That future is a more sustainable future, one that relies less heavily on consumerism. I see it impacting everything. Because… It has to. That future can or could render corporate power less relevant. It’s up to us, but the window is open.

    Lastly, I see a crisis of leadership, which has failed to prepare the US for the present, let alone the inevitable future of how we continue to and need to evolve in terms of how we live and work. I see OWS as another dividing platform, and a reminder of the failure of leadership and accountability, which has contributed to the disaster we’re in.

    #463369

    michaelcoyote
    Participant

    #463370
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    #463371

    th0m
    Participant

    I would like to comment on what Jon said (hello!) … I think the concept that time is being wasted on a cause that has no clear goal is actually an incredibly valid response when you look at the events.

    That being said, let me say a couple of things however in support of this:

      [*]this is a mirror of the country (especially the banks) repealing the glass steagall act is akin to pointing a microphone at a speaker[/*]
      [*]a leader does not make a cause, and any leader would have flaws that could hurt the movement[/*]
      [*]anonymous is not your personal army[/*]
      [*]if this is the most important thing for this country, then that certainly isn’t wasted talent, i want that talent there[/*]

    Now having said all of that, I think it was interesting the Daily Show bit where they highlighted the pre-raid class divisions that existed in the camp between the iPadHaves and iPadHaveNots.

    But just because we were lucky enough to have someone like Dr. King stick up for the poor doesn’t mean that it is somehow now something we all can do by just following his example. The concept of rational actors may well work without any regulations in a truly free market, but since don’t have one, putting a brick on the gas pedal with all this astrophysics passing as economics is doing a disservice. This is a democracy, and we *can* revoke the charters of these companies, and we *can* vote with our money.

    So, I think Jon you have the right morals for sure, it is just your longing for a legitimate means within the system to achieve proper goals is the very thing that unfortunately just won’t work I don’t think. The way within the system would be to either increase or decrease regulation through the political process or something, and I fear that avenue for effective change has been dismantled since glass steagall went away.

    #463372

    th0m
    Participant

    See also this amazing chart that Randall put together:

    http://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-5680&y=-4792&z=3

    #463373
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    th0m said:
    See also this amazing chart that Randall put together:

    http://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-5680&y=-4792&z=3

    Was just looking at that myself…

    #463374

    pedex
    Participant

    th0m said:
    I would like to comment on what Jon said (hello!) … I think the concept that time is being wasted on a cause that has no clear goal is actually an incredibly valid response when you look at the events.

    That being said, let me say a couple of things however in support of this:

      [*]this is a mirror of the country (especially the banks) repealing the glass steagall act is akin to pointing a microphone at a speaker[/*]
      [*]a leader does not make a cause, and any leader would have flaws that could hurt the movement[/*]
      [*]anonymous is not your personal army[/*]
      [*]if this is the most important thing for this country, then that certainly isn’t wasted talent, i want that talent there[/*]

    Now having said all of that, I think it was interesting the Daily Show bit where they highlighted the pre-raid class divisions that existed in the camp between the iPadHaves and iPadHaveNots.

    But just because we were lucky enough to have someone like Dr. King stick up for the poor doesn’t mean that it is somehow now something we all can do by just following his example. The concept of rational actors may well work without any regulations in a truly free market, but since don’t have one, putting a brick on the gas pedal with all this astrophysics passing as economics is doing a disservice. This is a democracy, and we *can* revoke the charters of these companies, and we *can* vote with our money.

    So, I think Jon you have the right morals for sure, it is just your longing for a legitimate means within the system to achieve proper goals is the very thing that unfortunately just won’t work I don’t think. The way within the system would be to either increase or decrease regulation through the political process or something, and I fear that avenue for effective change has been dismantled since glass steagall went away.

    glass steagall is but a small piece and problem

    For many years now there has been basically no regulation or enforcement of law on wall street or the banking and insurance industries and additionally unregulated unlimited betting using derivatives has been allowed and even protected by the govt with bipartisan support with the losses socialized and profits privatized. We also have leadership in this nation that enjoys immunity from laws the 99% get prosecuted for when they break the law. Expecting a democratic and actual political process as it is present in this country to allow actual democracy and positive change to occur misses how all this happened to begin with. Leadership has no interest in actual democracy or rule of law as they have worked hard for a long time to subvert it to their own benefit, they will not relinquish it voluntarily, they never do. When nations reach this point it leaves few options. One is revolution, the other is bypass the govt from the ground up making it irrelevant, and the usual outcome is collapse and govt failure. Our govt’s priorities have been on display for a long time, it is no secret what they are and one of them is the 99% will be sacrificed for the 1%. Escaping the grips of progressively creeping fascism is something few nations have been able to turn around without bloodshed and revolution or war.

    #463375

    myliftkk
    Participant

    Apparently Occupy (or Non-Occupy) is spreading to our very highest institutions.

    Dear Professor Mankiw—

    Today, we are walking out of your class, Economics 10, in order to express our discontent with the bias inherent in this introductory economics course. We are deeply concerned about the way that this bias affects students, the University, and our greater society.

    As Harvard undergraduates, we enrolled in Economics 10 hoping to gain a broad and introductory foundation of economic theory that would assist us in our various intellectual pursuits and diverse disciplines, which range from Economics, to Government, to Environmental Sciences and Public Policy, and beyond. Instead, we found a course that espouses a specific—and limited—view of economics that we believe perpetuates problematic and inefficient systems of economic inequality in our society today.

    A legitimate academic study of economics must include a critical discussion of both the benefits and flaws of different economic simplifying models. As your class does not include primary sources and rarely features articles from academic journals, we have very little access to alternative approaches to economics. There is no justification for presenting Adam Smith’s economic theories as more fundamental or basic than, for example, Keynesian theory.

    Care in presenting an unbiased perspective on economics is particularly important for an introductory course of 700 students that nominally provides a sound foundation for further study in economics. Many Harvard students do not have the ability to opt out of Economics 10. This class is required for Economics and Environmental Science and Public Policy concentrators, while Social Studies concentrators must take an introductory economics course—and the only other eligible class, Professor Steven Margolin’s class Critical Perspectives on Economics, is only offered every other year (and not this year). Many other students simply desire an analytic understanding of economics as part of a quality liberal arts education. Furthermore, Economics 10 makes it difficult for subsequent economics courses to teach effectively as it offers only one heavily skewed perspective rather than a solid grounding on which other courses can expand. Students should not be expected to avoid this class—or the whole discipline of economics—as a method of expressing discontent.

    Harvard graduates play major roles in the financial institutions and in shaping public policy around the world. If Harvard fails to equip its students with a broad and critical understanding of economics, their actions are likely to harm the global financial system. The last five years of economic turmoil have been proof enough of this.

    We are walking out today to join a Boston-wide march protesting the corporatization of higher education as part of the global Occupy movement. Since the biased nature of Economics 10 contributes to and symbolizes the increasing economic inequality in America, we are walking out of your class today both to protest your inadequate discussion of basic economic theory and to lend our support to a movement that is changing American discourse on economic injustice. Professor Mankiw, we ask that you take our concerns and our walk-out seriously.

    Sincerely,

    Concerned students of Economics 10

    [url=http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/11/2/students-protest-Ec-10/]http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/11/2/students-protest-Ec-10/[/url]

    #463376

    myliftkk
    Participant
    #463377

    SusanB
    Participant

    From Dan Savage on Slog:

    On Monday night, O’Reilly Factor host Bill O’Reilly and Fox News host Megyn Kelly sat down to discuss what really happened at UC Davis on Friday and whether campus police acted appropriately in showering a group of sitting students with pepper spray. Their conclusion? No big deal.

    “Pepper spray, that just burns your eyes, right?” O’Reilly asked Kelly.

    “Right,” Kelly said. “I mean, its like a derivative of actual pepper. It’s a food product, essentially.”

    Twitter explodes:

    “Mustard gas: it’s a hot dog condiment, essentially!”

    “Stabbing: It’s just acupuncture, essentially!”

    “Waterboarding: It’s a really high-powered shower, essentially!”

    “Arranged marriage: it’s just your parents being concerned about your love life, essentially.”

    “Forest fires: They’re tree candles, essentially!”

    “Beheadings: They’re really close haircuts, essentially!”

    #463378

    myliftkk
    Participant

    SusanB said:
    From Dan Savage on Slog:

    On Monday night, O’Reilly Factor host Bill O’Reilly and Fox News host Megyn Kelly sat down to discuss what really happened at UC Davis on Friday and whether campus police acted appropriately in showering a group of sitting students with pepper spray. Their conclusion? No big deal.

    “Pepper spray, that just burns your eyes, right?” O’Reilly asked Kelly.

    “Right,” Kelly said. “I mean, its like a derivative of actual pepper. It’s a food product, essentially.”

    Twitter explodes:

    “Mustard gas: it’s a hot dog condiment, essentially!”

    “Stabbing: It’s just acupuncture, essentially!”

    “Waterboarding: It’s a really high-powered shower, essentially!”

    “Arranged marriage: it’s just your parents being concerned about your love life, essentially.”

    “Forest fires: They’re tree candles, essentially!”

    “Beheadings: They’re really close haircuts, essentially!”

    Doesn’t this dovetail with the recent study that shows faux news viewers are stupider than people who never watch the news?

    #463379

    upstairs
    Member

    Just a thought about Americans expressing their Constitutional rights.

    Thomas Jefferson “Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.”

    Here is the definition of Liberty:

    a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
    b. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one’s own choosing.
    2. Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
    3. A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.

    Now, happily we don’t have a despotic autocratic system, yet, when there is rampant graft and corruption, should one just lay under the bus, or strike out with one’s unalienable rights to correct faults within the system.

    I wonder who will suffer under the private weight of being on the wrong side of history.

    #463380

    ehill27
    Participant

    Where the 1% Live
    HOWARD WIAL – OCT 31, 2011

    Occupy Wall Street and its companion movements throughout the world have focused attention on the top 1 percent of the income distribution, which raises the question—where do those 1 percent live?

    READ MORE: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2011/10/where-one-percent-live/393

    #463381

    howatzer
    Participant

    OK, Now I’m about to pick up sign and head to wall street.

    Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks Undisclosed $13B

    #463382

    News
    Participant

    Posted on Saturday, 11.26.11
    UC Davis police went too far

    A menacing crowd of protesters had encircled police and they had no choice but to defend themselves with pepper spray. Or at least, that is the story campus cops at UC Davis initially told. Video of the Nov. 18 incident tells a different story. It shows a group of Occupy Davis student protesters sitting peacefully with arms interlocked while a police officer walks back and forth, dousing them at close range with liberal amounts of pepper spray. There is an awful contemptuousness in his bearing. He could be spraying weeds in his garden or roaches in his kitchen.

    READ MORE: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/26/2520222/uc-davis-police-went-too-far.html

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