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Occupy Wall Street Protests

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  • #463188

    Twixlen
    Participant

    Walker said:
    Not your fault. Embed only works with certain sites, and The Daily Show isn’t one of them, unfortunately.

    Third Q from the bottom:

    Help / FAQ

    Thanks, Walker! I’m usually so bad at that stuff – it’s nice to know it wasn’t me this one time.

    #463189
    ColumbusTime
    ColumbusTime
    Participant
    #463190

    Andrew Hall
    Member

    ColumbusTime said:
    http://www.facebook.com/NewEconomicCharter

    More people (by almost 40:1) on Fb like Occupy Dayton than that. It is pretty silly to consider it representative of just about anything.

    A.

    #463191

    Twixlen
    Participant

    Sure. Facebook. Where everything is legitimate.

    #463192
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Twixlen said:
    ^ Huh. Strangely, I can’t find that document anywhere on the website for the movement – http://www.occupywallst.org

    Do you have the link?

    This:
    http://owsworkingdocs.wordpress.com/economic-charter/

    Links to here:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1guZ03g0yCMvX1W4wH5Ji5tykYDYt9X84vnhZYjXhtnQ/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

    See page 71.

    ETA: Shout out to that evil corporation… Google…

    #463193
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Twixlen said:
    Sure. Facebook. Where everything is legitimate.

    To be fair, it looks like someone inserted that in the working document… can’t say for sure that it’s approved by anyone ( or that there’s anyone to approve it ).

    #463194

    Twixlen
    Participant

    rus said:
    This:
    http://owsworkingdocs.wordpress.com/economic-charter/

    Links to here:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1guZ03g0yCMvX1W4wH5Ji5tykYDYt9X84vnhZYjXhtnQ/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

    See page 71.

    ETA: Shout out to that evil corporation… Google…

    Thanks… from the first “official” page…

    The contents of this document, “The American People’s New Economic Charter” (hereafter APNEC) and the statements, positions, arguments, etc. contained herein do not represent the views of any legal entity or registered organization.

    At present, due to the crowd-sourcing nature of the drafting process so far, the contents of the APNEC reflect the direct input of a wide variety and large number of individuals, and can therefore be expected to be contradictory, of uneven editorial quality, ideologically diverse, academically more or less qualified, and of varying degrees of seriousness and commitment. Such characteristics are inherent to the process of crowd-sourcing at this stage.

    In the spirit of democracy, inclusiveness, respect for our diversity, and our patriotic duty as Americans to advocate for what we individually believe will serve the common good of our nation, we will continue for a time to welcome input to the APNEC in the crowd-sourcing method described above, and will in a subsequent phase endeavor to collaboratively edit it so that a practical, responsible action plan emerges that fairly and reasonably reflects the hopes and needs of the 99%, responds to the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City, and charts a course for our nation away from its current crises and toward a better future.

    – The Charter Collaborative, Monday, October 10, 2011

    #463195

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Globe and Mail[/url] makes fun of Sofia Vergara. Is that even fair

    #463196

    Tenzo
    Participant

    Doctors $28,000

    Interesting. Residents make a mandated $42,000 / year, working about 100 hours a week.

    Student loan payments for many doctors are up to $2,000 a month.
    The majority of residents I know are living below the poverty level.

    So, basically they want doctors to pay to practice medicine.

    Based on Concepts of Economic Sustainability and Right Livelihood

    yeah, OK there

    I’m sure the business owners who risk their future and life savings to start a business will enjoy making about $3.50 /hr

    #463197
    rus
    rus
    Participant
    #463198

    myliftkk
    Participant

    This is for the crowd that thinks only jobless people feel entitled:

    Options Group’s Karp said he met last month over tea at the Gramercy Park Hotel in New York with a trader who made $500,000 last year at one of the six largest U.S. banks.

    The trader, a 27-year-old Ivy League graduate, complained that he has worked harder this year and will be paid less. The headhunter told him to stay put and collect his bonus.

    “This is very demoralizing to people,” Karp said. “Especially young guys who have gone to college and wanted to come onto the Street, having dreams of becoming millionaires.”

    [url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-12/wall-street-sees-no-exit-from-financial-woes-as-bankers-fret.html]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-12/wall-street-sees-no-exit-from-financial-woes-as-bankers-fret.html[/url]

    Let the tears and snot flow…

    #463199
    hugh59
    hugh59
    Participant

    ColumbusTime said:
    Luddites and poverty, for the win! A 300,000,000 person commune!

    ————————————————

    I’ll leave you with the latest edit to “The People’s Document,” which is this incoherent movement’s non-binding manifesto, of sorts. It seems they’ve hit on a new plan for how to run the country and distribute wealth “fairly.” The good news? They (for the moment) want to eliminate all taxes except for a universal four-percent sales tax. The bad news? They want to mandate maximum salaries for everyone. Their scheme pegs a doctor’s top income at $28,000 — $500 less than “public servant” salaries:

    New Salary Range Recommendations
    Based on Concepts of Economic Sustainability and Right Livelihood

    Bankers $20,000
    Lawyers $27,500
    Realtors $25,000
    Doctors $28,000
    Nurses $27,500
    Teachers/Librarians/Train Engineers/Bridge Maintenance/Ship Pilots, etc. $35,000
    Police $36,000
    Public Servants $28,500
    Laborers $20,000
    Other public sector $30,000
    Other private sector $29,000
    Technical/Research/Academic $36,000
    Entrepreneurs/Business Owners $10,000 (i.e., tax breaks for corps)
    Congress $30,000
    President 40,000
    Soldiers N/A
    Defense workers $25,000

    All jobs include full health benefit for worker and family, full retirement benefits, full free education for children.

    Taxation – to run the government
    The only tax will be a sales tax for all goods and services, which will be fixed at: 4%.

    I am confused. I am a lawyer, but I work for the government so that makes me a public servant. So, what is my maximum pay? $27.5K or $28.5K? Also, I wonder about the logic of having jobs that require minimal or no education earning more than jobs that require lots of education.

    #463200

    howatzer
    Participant

    Finally, a coherent objective[/url] given by these protesters :

    “There’s a lot of stuff we wouldn’t have to clean up if the city provided basic human rights, like a Port-A-Potty,” said demonstrator Gene Wagner.

    #463201
    Tom Over
    Tom Over
    Participant

    Ray McGovern at Freedom Plaza, one of two sites of the occupation in Washington D.C.

    CIA analyst turned political activist Ray McGovern said last that week a movement is building. So as to not start an additional thread, this will be posted here, though we crossed paths on Freedom Plaza, one of two occupation sites in DC, (not Wall Street in NYC.)

    McGovern expressed confidence in the inevitable success of a mass movement for renewed democracy and an end to corporate rule and militarism.

    “I work for justice now. I used to work for the CIA and the US Army, ” said McGovern whom police bloodied and arrested in February at George Washington University when he stood up in silent protest during a speech by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. During the spectacle of cops grabbing the 71-year-old McGovern, Clinton didn’t miss a beat or blink an eye as she criticized–ironically– governments that don’t allow protests and freedom of expression.

    “I’m impressed by the folks here at our own Tahir Square, Freedom Plaza,” said McGovern last week as the late night crowd thinned, some people heading to their tents on the square, some heading to hotels or houses in nearby suburbs.

    “The movement is building. This is a really good start, together with what’s going on in New York. In the beginning you never quite know what’s going to happen. But I’m really encouraged by what I see here.”

    Black youths road past on skateboards now that the hippies had taken over the square, bringing with us hundreds of free pizzas courtesy of Food Not Bombs and local eateries. Normally, they can be jailed if police catch them skateboarding there.

    “There are a lot of young people with whom I marched for 2 hours today, carrying the Veteran’s For Peace flag. It’s very emotionally satisfying to know that people care enough to be down here on this square sleeping and just staying around.”

    McGovern said it was going to be interesting to see what happened when the permit to use Freedom Plaza expired the following day. Officials have since granted activists a four month permit.

    People went there on October 6 for the October 2011 Stop The Machine occupation organizers had been planning for months, long before Occupy Wall Street drew international attention. Apparently without nearly as much planning, people began camping out in McPherson Square in DC on Oct 1 in a separate action.

    On the plaza the crowd was older. In the square, just blocks away, they were younger and less racially and ethnically diverse. The plaza was more organized in a set-up-for-a-rock-concert sense by activists in their 40s and 50s.

    But at the square, the unanimous decision making proceedings that the 20 somethings were going thru twice a day–the people’s movement assemblies–seemed more vibrant and efficient. But people referred to both sites as being part of Occupy D.C.

    In the coming weeks, harsh weather may push people from Freedom Plaza or McPherson Square before cops do so. The four month permit for the plaza still leaves the question of whether the energy of the occupations can be intensified, or even sustained.

    “The main challenge that I see is that people in the US need to know there is no need to fire teachers or firemen. There’s no need to foreclose on homes. We have the money. The money’s here (in the US) but 58 percent of every dollar you pay in taxes goes to the military to fight feckless wars that will never end.”

    McGovern said our political leaders use the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to promote the interests of big corporations at the expense of the people of the United States.

    “There are people that profit from these wars like all those defense industries that incidentally or coincidentally control the media. Hello ! I guess it’s all coming in to focus now, huh ? If you look at the TV outlets and cable too, you’ll find almost all of them are owned or controlled by mega corporations, like GE, for example, that are profiteering from war.”

    But we can do something about this, McGovern said.

    “Once we cause enough trouble in the manner of Martin Luther King Jr., once we raise enough tension so that people need to pay attention to us, once we close down the Washington Post just up the street here or CNN, then people will have to report, ‘hey, we’ve been closed down by these people who care about democracy.’”

    How we do that is the big question, McGovern said.

    “We want to do it nonviolently, but as you know, Martin Luther King Jr. incurred lots of violence against him and the movement. So, it depends on whether the DC cops down here and the national park police can continue to act responsibly, unlike some of those cops in New York City.”

    McGovern said a social movement is starting, even though it is modest in numbers so far and even though there is uncertainty about how things will unfold.

    “As Chris Hedges says, we’re it. It’s time. We have to put our bodies into it because nothing else works here. We have to make the kind of commitment where nonviolent resistance is going to make its mark. It’s an uphill challenge, but we’re up to it.”

    McGovern said if we have enough people joining our movement to make our government accountable to the will of the people, instead of big corporations, we will have the strength to succeed as we face reactionary violence.

    “When they meet up with 6, 7, or 8 thousand people, then it’s going to be a little difficult to put everybody in jail or beat up everybody. Numbers are going to count in this calculus and as people in the US realize that corporations that control things around here will not give up without being forced to. Inventive and imaginative ways will be found to shame them into it. It’s going to take time and persistence. We might not be able to do it this month or this year, but we will do it. You can count on that.”

    McGovern said he may not live to see the fruition of this movement. But he said he is encouraged by the young people he has met at McPherson Square and Freedom Plaza here in DC who seem willing to make sacrifices for a movement based on justice.

    “I’m confident this will work out in such a way that we will honor the commitment that those early founders of our country made, and make it well again, make it a real democracy and a republic we can be proud of.”

    Though McGovern believes the movement will succeed, he cautions against over-thinking our prospects for success. Instead, we should be faithful to our nation’s core ideals.

    “It’s about remembering what our founding fathers incurred when they pledged their lives, their honor and their fortunes. It was far from clear that they wouldn’t end up on the end of a rope. If they had that kind of guts, we have that kind of guts too, whether it’s in Virginia or Massachusetts or places in between.”

    Whether on Wall Street, or in D.C. or other cities across the nation, the main chant and slogan has been ‘we are the 99 percent.’ It would be hard to imagine that 99 percent without common ground between rank-and-file conservatives and rank-and-file progressives.

    “Even the Tea Party folks are able to see the exorbitant costs of these feckless wars and the lack of money to do anything else in this country. All you have to do is the math, the arithmetic and see that once a country spends more than all the other countries of the world combined on its military, well, there is lots of money there. We could halve the military budget, solve a lot of the problems in our individual states and still be impregnable and unchallenged in the military sense around the world.”

    McGovern said the United States shouldn’t pretend to conquer countries rich in oil and natural gas.

    “Why don’t we take our place with other countries and negotiate agreements to get the stuff that we need ?”

    McGovern said our country will be better off if our government stops trying to control other nations.

    “Once we come to our senses and realize we don’t need to control all this stuff, that we can have our fair share, that we Americans are not special, that we don’t have any divine right to the world’s resources, once that comes into focus–and I think it will because I see it on the faces of these young people–we’ll come out all right. It’s going to take some time and some courage and probably a little blood , but I think we’ll be able to do it.

    Earlier that day, gathered in circles in folding chairs or in groups of twos and threes, some people talked about revolution versus reform. McGovern said the difference is semantic.

    “You can have a bloodless revolution. You can have lots of reform and call it a revolution. But I think nonviolent direct action that Martin Luther King Jr. suggested is what we need. In the first instance, it’s not going to establish a new government. Rather it’s going to expose what’s going on now.”

    McGovern used the analogy of a boil King used in his Letter From The Birmingham Jail to illustrate the purpose of our current efforts to use nonviolent resistance to expose corruption and injustice:

    “ Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.” —Martin Luther King Jr. Letter from Birmingham Jail

    McGovern said human conscience still exists in this nation.

    “I think we’re going to be able to prevail. But first we have to open the boil with all its pus-flowing ugliness. Let it pour out so we can be renewed and let the young people take over with an eye toward real justice in our country.”

    #463202
    Snarf
    Snarf
    Participant

    You should work on brevity.

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