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NYT: The Myth of Sustainable Meat

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion NYT: The Myth of Sustainable Meat

This topic contains 596 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Red Sun Rising 6 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 271 through 285 (of 609 total)
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  • #492789

    rus said:
    Funny enough, it’s on the CDC’s page:

    http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html

    An incomplete protein source is one that is low in one or more of the essential amino acids. Complementary proteins are two or more incomplete protein sources that together provide adequate amounts of all the essential amino acids.

    Great, so does anyone anywhere, besides the potato study I posted, just eat one thing, everyday of their life? No. The point is, you don’t need to eat a “complete protein” from a single source to get what your body needs considering all whole foods contain protein. I repeat all whole foods have protein. It is the totality of the diet to ensure you get good nutrition, and meat doesn’t have a lot of important nutrients that plants do. While protein is important, we don’t need as much this culture promotes. Nutritiondata.com doesn’t help with continuing that kind of thinking with their protein combining recommendations. And your statement about nuts and seeds is false:
    Meet the chia seed- which is just one example of a protein with the “complete” profile of amino acids and a robust omega profile omegas for 1 oz of seeds:

    Fats & Fatty Acids

    Total Omega-3 fatty acids 4915 mg

    Total Omega-6 fatty acids 1620 mg

    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3061/2

    As do hemp seeds, the previously mentioned savi seeds, and pumpkin/squash seeds:
    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3066/2

    If anyone is interested, I have a study that was done on Norway that has similar implications to those of Cuba, when livestock was confiscated, the deaths and implications from cardiovascular disease dropped across all age groups.

    Journal: Lancet
    Citation: 1951 Jan 20’1(6647):126-9
    Article: Mortality from circulatory diseases in Norway 1940
    Author: Strom A; Jensen R
    NLM Unique ID: 2985213R
    Pub Med UI: 14795790

    #492790
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Oh, so complete proteins are a myth, but even if it’s not there are complete proteins that are from plants or one can achieve all the needed amino acids by combining plants.

    Awesome.

    #492791

    TomOver said:

    But I suggest to RSR that at least one thing for those of us concerned about animal rights to keep in mind is that we don’t have a monopoly on truth, no matter how passionate we are. We have much to learn from others, regardless of whether they strive to have a vegan way of life.

    I’ve never suggested or said I have a monopoly on the truth.

    #492792

    rus said:
    That’s not what I asked.

    I asked if there was anything that would cause you to give up veganism. Not just make the occasional exception, but give it up entirely.

    Seems like a reasonable question, since the purpose of these vegan advocacy threads is apparently to convince people to give up all meat/fish/dairy and all use of animal based products to the maximum possible extent.

    He is not a vegan or the one advocating a vegan shift, Rus.

    #492793

    rus said:
    Oh, so complete proteins are a myth, but even if it’s not there are complete proteins that are from plants or one can achieve all the needed amino acids by combining plants.

    Awesome.

    the need for a single source of “complete” protein at one sitting as suggested with food combining is the myth. the body stores what it needs and combines it as needed.

    #492794
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Red Sun Rising said:
    He is not a vegan or the one advocating a vegan shift, Rus.

    Replace vegan with vegetarianism then.

    Come to think of it, by your standards are you the only one arguing for a ‘vegan shift’ in this thread?

    #492795
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Red Sun Rising said:
    the need for a single source of “complete” protein at one sitting as suggested with food combining is the myth. the body stores what it needs and combines it as needed.

    Still need a variety of sources in the same day if not eating meat, though. Let alone the need for B12, which might be satisfied with nutritional yeast.

    #492796
    Tom Over
    Tom Over
    Participant

    rus said:
    Replace vegan with vegetarianism then.

    Come to think of it, by your standards are you the only one arguing for a ‘vegan shift’ in this thread?

    Apparently some can approximate being entirely vegan more so than others. I seem to be developing a mantra : “don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”

    But where is this discussion leading? What will we actually do to help reduce suffering and promote well-being (for humans and also non-humans) ?

    #492797

    misskitty
    Participant

    Fun Fact :
    Eggs are awesome they contain ALL ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS required in your daly nutritional intake. There is no combining of foods to achieve a higher percent of protein intake. You would have to combine beans and pasta, or meat and various vegetables, milk with cereal and fruit to EQUAL THE INCREDIBLE EDIBLE EGG! Eggs have almost zero carbohydrates and have the highest rating for complete proteins (containing all the amino acids) of any food. Amino acids are necessary for repairing tissue as well as making hormones and brain chemicals.

    #492798

    Cookie
    Member

    rus said:
    Still need a variety of sources in the same day if not eating meat, though. Let alone the need for B12, which might be satisfied with nutritional yeast.

    Hi, vegetarian for 26 years here. I never think about completing my proteins or eating nutritional yeast.

    #492799
    Snarf
    Snarf
    Participant

    Cookie said:
    Hi, vegetarian for 26 years here. I never think about completing my proteins or eating nutritional yeast.

    Yes but what about sodomy?

    #492800

    joev
    Participant

    Susan, I think the reason no one is reading this thread is because it’s so boring to hear each of the two sides battle each other constantly with the same boring arguments.

    There are actually about 300 million sides to this argument, and small changes from the standard American diet to one more rich in plant-based foods rather than animal-based foods can have a huge impact (health-wise, animal-rights-wise, healthcare-spending-wise) in aggregate. When people look at this as a two-sided argument, that all gets lost.

    #492801

    Cookie
    Member

    Snarf said:
    Yes but what about sodomy?

    Not so much. More rum and the lash, really.

    #492802

    gramarye
    Participant

    joev said:
    Susan, I think the reason no one is reading this thread is because it’s so boring to hear each of the two sides battle each other constantly with the same boring arguments.

    There are actually about 300 million sides to this argument, and small changes from the standard American diet to one more rich in plant-based foods rather than animal-based foods can have a huge impact (health-wise, animal-rights-wise, healthcare-spending-wise) in aggregate. When people look at this as a two-sided argument, that all gets lost.

    ROFL True, but if you try to look at it as a 300 million-sided argument, all gets lost as well. Three hundred million voices on a subject might as well be zero.

    #492803

    Bear
    Participant

    Red Sun Rising said:
    I answer the way I do because to omit the obvious positive impacts of consuming “low on the food chain” is a significant factor in all sustainability conversations, considering a plant based agricultural structure is a relevant part of the dialog and due diligence.

    Um, no. People who seek real answers often do artificially limit the range of options under discussion in order to achieve greater analytical clarity. Your reaction proves the utility of doing so: it’s impossible to have a rational discussion of the relative merits of sustainable vs. industrial meat when one of the parties to the discussion insists that vegetarianism is superior to either, thereby ignoring precisely the distinction that the discussion was meant to highlight.

    Red Sun Rising said:
    While certain Ottoman slaves rose to high ranks in that social structure, I’m certain there were many who did not, and of them- were abused, and killed, regularly.

    But not “always, without fail”?

    You’re missing the point. I was just trying to point out that you are, with no small measure of irony, beating this slavery analogy to death.

    Red Sun Rising said:
    Wild game hunting is certainly closer to natural predation in certain circumstances except we get to use tools, be it tree stands and doe urine with rifles and camouflage or even canned hunting facilities. Some people hunt with aircraft (wolves in Alaska, mustangs in Nevada) and often times those hunting miss the sweet spot and the animals escapes yet dies a long slow, painful death of infection. Sometimes they miss. Often times they don’t know who they are shooting and it turns out to be a friend or an unlucky human in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Nature’s a bitch. Animals use camouflage and trickery all the time. They even use chemical and biological weapons (Kimodo dragons, rattlesnakes, etc.) This establishes no difference in kind between human and nonhuman predation, just a difference in efficacy.

    Red Sun Rising said:
    For those who live in states closer to a state of indigenous living or in undeveloped countries, it is what it is- simply survival. For those in modern, developed society, it is unnecessary and plenty of food options are abundant….

    This is the best answer, really. And to my mind, it’s actually fairly compelling—minus the folderol about slavery and the links to biased polemics and so forth.

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