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Viewing 15 posts - 136 through 150 (of 260 total)
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  • #513113

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    I challenge InnerCore to go an entire week posting without mentioning another city besides Columbus.

    How many cities are you a member of the Chamber of Commerce, anyway?

    #513114

    F5Equity
    Member

    jbcmh81 said:
    I challenge InnerCore to go an entire week posting without mentioning another city besides Columbus.

    How many cities are you a member of the Chamber of Commerce, anyway?

    What would the point of not mentioning another city be? I appreciate innercore’s postings, and because of him I actually signed up and posted as it was the first time I ever saw anyone realistically speaking on Columbus development without blinders on. While I do not work in real estate my second major at OSU was real estate, and every single one of my former classmates who work for large IB’s or PE shops or insurers in the RE space laugh at Columbus’s inner city development prospects for many of the same reasons innercore has listed. In Columbus, strip malls anchored by a Walmart are what are interesting to national players.

    #513115

    peter
    Participant

    InnerCore, I don’t disagree with anything you’ve written in response to my comments, so I won’t break them all out here. Believe me, nobody wants quality, walkable urban neighborhoods with public transit options more than the (majority of) people on CU, myself included.

    But what are the action items we should take away from your comments? I live downtown (check). I’m opening a business downtown on April 1 (check). I shop downtown, play downtown, show my friends and family a good time downtown (check check check). I kind of feel like we’re all running along here, you’re driving by with a bullhorn and a whip – RUN FASTER! Do you have a list of action items that residents of growing cities can do to help? Maybe on a website or wiki somewhere?

    #513116

    peter
    Participant

    laugh at Columbus’s inner city development prospects for many of the same reasons innercore has listed.

    Now that’s just foolish. There’s a reason InnerCore (among others) has become involved and interested in Columbus, and I can promise you it’s not charity.

    #513117

    InnerCore
    Participant

    johnwirtz said:
    I think it’s about weather and jobs.

    If its weather then how do explain a place like Denver.

    And as far as jobs, that’s definitely part of it. But Columbus’ economy is doing good as well so why aren’t people moving here?

    Besides which Jobs and growth are interconnected. Do you think most companies are going to move to Franklin County that has added 632 people through net domestic migration or Charlotte’s where they added over 9,000 or Austin with over 15,000.

    We have fundamental issues that need to be addressed. The longer we wait, the more the issues will compound themselves.

    #513118

    InnerCore
    Participant

    peter said:
    laugh at Columbus’s inner city development prospects for many of the same reasons innercore has listed.

    Now that’s just foolish. There’s a reason InnerCore (among others) has become involved and interested in Columbus, and I can promise you it’s not charity.

    He’s very correct. Most of the large institutional investors will not lend money here unless there is almost no risk. So for example when you have a AAA tenant like Walmart or Costo willing to sign a lease then you can get financing. But for pretty much anything else they’ll pass.

    #513119

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    F5Equity said:
    What would the point of not mentioning another city be? I appreciate innercore’s postings, and because of him I actually signed up and posted as it was the first time I ever saw anyone realistically speaking on Columbus development without blinders on. While I do not work in real estate my second major at OSU was real estate, and every single one of my former classmates who work for large IB’s or PE shops or insurers in the RE space laugh at Columbus’s inner city development prospects for many of the same reasons innercore has listed. In Columbus, strip malls anchored by a Walmart are what are interesting to national players.

    How about because Columbus is not any of those cities and has its own set of unique patterns and challenges? How about because directly comparing growth rates with a boom city vs a non-boom city is ridiculous? How about because it’s not particularly honest to go on and on about the quantity and type of urban development vs Columbus while continually failing to mention that those same cities also are building significantly more low-density, suburban-type sprawl than Columbus? When you have 30%+ growth rates, ALL types of development will be higher than in a city that is seeing 10% growth rates, so why does IC expect the same level of development in Columbus? Why would anyone? The theme for some seems to be to set the bar so unrealistically high given the level and type of growth in Columbus that it’s fairly easy to find problems. Hey, Columbus doesn’t have Times Square! Look how far behind it is compared to NYC! It doesn’t have 30% growth rates! That must mean it’s not doing enough!

    And give me a break, dude. People have been discussing and debating Columbus’ development patterns and issues for years, both here and other places. There have been plenty of people before IC that have been willing to talk realistically about development in Columbus, and have been critical of many things about it. I myself have been critical of quite a bit. I’m an urban person. I want a train. I want dense, walkable neighborhoods with plenty of retail, office, residential and entertainment. I want to see a vast biking and trail network. I want to see the Scioto utilized because it’s a way underappreciated resource. I want to see form-based code. I want to see short-sighted neighborhood commissions stop demanding 1-story buildings on their main streets. I want to stop seeing big box retail and massive surface parking lots. I want COTA to stop trying to serve the suburbs when the road layout clearly doesn’t work there for it and just spreads service thinner everywhere else. I recognize 100% that Columbus is not perfect and there are many areas it needs to improve on developmentally. There is probably not a person on this board who doesn’t understand that. You want to give IC credit for something that most people have already been doing here, be my guest, but you clearly haven’t been paying attention.

    #513120

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    If its weather then how do explain a place like Denver.

    And as far as jobs, that’s definitely part of it. But Columbus’ economy is doing good as well so why aren’t people moving here?

    Besides which Jobs and growth are interconnected. Do you think most companies are going to move to Franklin County that has added 632 people through net domestic migration or Charlotte’s where they added over 9,000 or Austin with over 15,000.

    We have fundamental issues that need to be addressed. The longer we wait, the more the issues will compound themselves.

    Columbus will probably be like Detroit within 10 years, no doubt.

    #513121

    F5Equity
    Member

    jbcmh81 said:
    How about because Columbus is not any of those cities and has its own set of unique patterns and challenges? How about because directly comparing growth rates with a boom city vs a non-boom city is ridiculous? How about because it’s not particularly honest to go on and on about the quantity and type of urban development vs Columbus while continually failing to mention that those same cities also are building significantly more low-density, suburban-type sprawl than Columbus? When you have 30%+ growth rates, ALL types of development will be higher than in a city that is seeing 10% growth rates, so why does IC expect the same level of development in Columbus? Why would anyone? The theme for some seems to be to set the bar so unrealistically high given the level and type of growth in Columbus that it’s fairly easy to find problems. Hey, Columbus doesn’t have Times Square! Look how far behind it is compared to NYC! It doesn’t have 30% growth rates! That must mean it’s not doing enough!

    And give me a break, dude. People have been discussing and debating Columbus’ development patterns and issues for years, both here and other places. There have been plenty of people before IC that have been willing to talk realistically about development in Columbus, and have been critical of many things about it. I myself have been critical of quite a bit. I’m an urban person. I want a train. I want dense, walkable neighborhoods with plenty of retail, office, residential and entertainment. I want to see a vast biking and trail network. I want to see the Scioto utilized because it’s a way underappreciated resource. I want to see form-based code. I want to see short-sighted neighborhood commissions stop demanding 1-story buildings on their main streets. I want to stop seeing big box retail and massive surface parking lots. I want COTA to stop trying to serve the suburbs when the road layout clearly doesn’t work there for it and just spreads service thinner everywhere else. I recognize 100% that Columbus is not perfect and there are many areas it needs to improve on developmentally. There is probably not a person on this board who doesn’t understand that. You want to give IC credit for something that most people have already been doing here, be my guest, but you clearly haven’t been paying attention.

    The problem with this train of thought is it is wrong. You do have to benchmark against peer cities, and it is done constantly. Some of those peer cities might be worse off, and some might be better, but to say we should not compare because an area has higher growth is naive. For isntance, Huntington bank has a pretty low growth footprint correct? I mean OH, MI, WV, PA, and IN are not exactly high growth areas, but every wall street analyst on earth would compare them against banks like Comerica, or Regions, or BB&T all who area in high growth areas (either in the south or out west). Why? Because these banks are comparable size and should theoretically generate comparable returns (of course management influences this, among other things). To think that your city exists in a vacuum or should only be benchmarked against declining cities is absurd. Equity investors have an option to put their money anywhere. They do not just say “well its either Columbus or Cleveland”.

    #513122

    peter
    Participant

    He’s very correct.

    I didn’t say he was incorrect. I said that the opinions he was repeating (that he has heard other people express – namely, that investing in Columbus is laughable) are, in my opinion, foolish. Surely you agree, else why would be spending so much time here?

    #513123

    F5Equity
    Member

    jbcmh81 said:
    Columbus will probably be like Detroit within 10 years, no doubt.

    So emotional…Emotions don’t earn returns, emotions don’t get you ahead in life.

    #513124

    F5Equity
    Member

    peter said:
    He’s very correct.

    I didn’t say he was incorrect. I said that the opinions he was repeating (that he has heard other people express – namely, that investing in Columbus is laughable) are, in my opinion, foolish. Surely you agree, else why would be spending so much time here?

    It is not foolish. Call up met-life ask for a perm loan in Columbus, see what they do.

    #513125

    F5Equity
    Member

    peter said:
    He’s very correct.

    I didn’t say he was incorrect. I said that the opinions he was repeating (that he has heard other people express – namely, that investing in Columbus is laughable) are, in my opinion, foolish. Surely you agree, else why would be spending so much time here?

    I am not sure, but Innercore is not Metlife, nor New York life or any other large debt provider. He sounds like a fairly young guy looking to get his start in CRE. Columbus can be a fine place for small scale developments for a player like himself. Forrest City (a Cleveland firm) is not building a 40 story tower in downtown columbus. They are building in other areas though……..

    #513126

    InnerCore
    Participant

    peter said:
    InnerCore, I don’t disagree with anything you’ve written in response to my comments, so I won’t break them all out here. Believe me, nobody wants quality, walkable urban neighborhoods with public transit options more than the (majority of) people on CU, myself included.

    But what are the action items we should take away from your comments? I live downtown (check). I’m opening a business downtown on April 1 (check). I shop downtown, play downtown, show my friends and family a good time downtown (check check check). I kind of feel like we’re all running along here, you’re driving by with a bullhorn and a whip – RUN FASTER! Do you have a list of action items that residents of growing cities can do to help? Maybe on a website or wiki somewhere?

    Peter, I can definitely respect your efforts. I can tell you that my interest in Columbus is that it’s my hometown where I grew up and where most of my family lives so I appreciate people such as yourself that are going out and making things happen.

    The problem is that the issues facing Columbus aren’t things that individuals can address. I could move back to Columbus and focus all my efforts on developing better project but I’m going to run into the same problems that the current local developers run into. Even if I could identify that there is demand for a $600M mixed use development near Easton I wouldn’t be able to go out and get the financing to make it happen.

    The regular citizens need to recognize this and work together collectively that creates an environment for change. The biggest issues are zoning and light rail.

    Now zoning wont affect the financing situation but what it will do is help to create an environment where the smaller developments that are build are done in a better fashion. So for example let’s look at Easton Gateway. There are a host of things they could put into the code to encourage a more walkable, urban layout. Parking maximums, require more frontage along main roads, change setback requirements, etc. Steiner is still going to want to get the project done with Costco and Whole Foods, but they’re going to have to lay it out differently in order to meet those zoning requirements. But without better regulations and guidelines you’re leaving it up to the developer who is now incetivized to build the quickest cheapest option.

    The next is light rail. Investors realize this is the way of the future. It gives them stability in security. We know that the fixed nature of light rail means that the areas surrounding them have a huge incentives to perform well and creates neighborhoods with longevity. Columbus is the LARGEST city without rail. That doesn’t give investors a lot of confidence to go into a smaller riskier market.

    So all these things are very related in dealing with the future or any city. We need to be making an argument as a city that we need to make these changes in order to create a city that will provide a strong and stable economy for the future. It’s more than having a rail line for a few extra people to get to work.

    Think of it this way. At a time when Sprawl was at it’s highest think what would have happen to Columbus had we decide to not build anymore freeways. Instead we let all the other cities build freeways out to the surrounding counties where their residents could have access to the increasing amount of low cost housing available in the suburbs. Sure we could have worked hard with what we had but we would have failed to keep pace with the desires of most Americans.

    #513127

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    F5Equity said:
    The problem with this train of thought is it is wrong. You do have to benchmark against peer cities, and it is done constantly. Some of those peer cities might be worse off, and some might be better, but to say we should not compare because an area has higher growth is naive. For isntance, Huntington bank has a pretty low growth footprint correct? I mean OH, MI, WV, PA, and IN are not exactly high growth areas, but every wall street analyst on earth would compare them against banks like Comerica, or Regions, or BB&T all who area in high growth areas (either in the south or out west). Why? Because these banks are comparable size and should theoretically generate comparable returns (of course management influences this, among other things). To think that your city exists in a vacuum or should only be benchmarked against declining cities is absurd. Equity investors have an option to put their money anywhere. They do not just say “well its either Columbus or Cleveland”.

    Are Charlotte, Denver or Austin really peer cities, though? Just because they are of similar size *right now* lacks the context of what’s going on there. Clearly places like Charlotte and Austin have vastly different growth rates than Columbus does. Like it or not, this makes a huge difference in regards to development, both presently and for the future and in terms of quantity and type. I’m not sure that IC really gets this point, or if he does, he seems to not find it all that relevant.

    The Midwest is not high growth for the most part, I agree, and yet Columbus is the 2nd fastest growing metro for that region. I think that speaks far more about Columbus than it does comparing it to a Sun Belt city. Putting Columbus’ growth in context with its region and true peer cities is a far more honest way to judge Columbus’ performance, imo. Acting like there’s a huge problem because it’s not developing like a city with 30%+ growth rates seems very strange to me. Again, this is not arguing that Columbus doesn’t have developmental issues. It does, but making those issues artificially worse by making unrealistic and unfair comparisons doesn’t really do the city any good. Columbus is just not going to grow like that. I fully support aiming higher than the status quo, but let’s come back down to earth a bit, shall we?

Viewing 15 posts - 136 through 150 (of 260 total)

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