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NBA in Columbus ?

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Sports NBA in Columbus ?

Viewing 15 posts - 376 through 390 (of 407 total)
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  • #429354

    Patch
    Participant

    jbcmh81 said:
    I guess we’ll see. I have history on my side. What do you have again?

    I’m not sure what your stance is, you are pro NBA or not? Or just “Columbus is big enough?”

    #429355

    Graybeak
    Participant

    jbcmh81 said:
    What examples are out there of cities that have both an NBA and NHL team? I really don’t know and I’m curious how they manage it since many people seem to believe they both can’t exist at the same time.

    Wow. OK.
    Boston, NYC, Toronto, Chicago, Detroit, Denver, Dallas, Minneapolis/ST Paul, Washington D C, Los Angeles are the first that pop into my head.

    #429356

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    InnerCore said:

    I don’t see where appreciation has anything to do with my argument. I appreciate the good things that are happening in Columbus. I love the short north area and while other people were trashing the architecture of High Point I was pointing out that the form of the building is great for its location. But you seem to be caught up in pride for the city, while I’m just an analyst looking at numbers, trends,etc.

    If you’re just analyzing the trends, then your conclusions run directly in contradiction to them. Look, I don’t expect you to love everything about Columbus. I don’t either. Your rare bit of praise notwithstanding, I just really can’t stand people who can’t help but be constantly critical. It’s not helpful and it’s certainly not an objective way to look at any place, let alone Columbus.

    I love my wife and appreciate her more than anything. Does acknowledging that another woman has a better eating and exercising habits that leads to her having a more toned and attractive body somehow diminish how I feel about her? Of Course Not.

    That’s kind of a silly comparison, but if you were as critical of your wife as you are of Columbus, you’d be in divorce proceedings. Your statements on Columbus would amount to saying to your wife, “Honey, I noticed you dropped a few pounds. Great job! But did you notice how all the neighbors look better than you?”

    So what does any of this have to do with where I live. It seems that in your world you cannot accept to live somewhere unless you buy into the notion that its the best place on earth.

    Not at all, I just don’t understand living somewhere you clearly don’t much care for. Also, if you’re serious about improving a place, I’m not sure the best way to do that is to claim everywhere else is better. Why not get out there and work with the people who are improving it instead of just complaining? You might end up with a better appreciation for just how far the city has come and for all the people working to make it better already. I feel like most of your posts are a direct insult on those efforts.

    What’s the problem with living in Columbus but recognizing that they are doing some things better in Cincinnati that we should be doing here? For the record I don’t live here, I’m contemplating the move back.

    There’s nothing wrong with recognizing that Columbus lacks some things that others cities have or that it’s behind the curve on some things. You’re not exactly breaking news by saying that. Then again, Cincinnati is behind the curve on things as well. There’s probably not a city anywhere that can’t be improved. The ironic thing is that there are people in all those other cities who find their own cities lacking and are wondering why they can’t be like everywhere else as well. Cincinnati certainly has its own set of vocal detractors. And if that was my hometown, I’d be telling them the same thing. It’s not helping. It assumes that all the people that are positive about the city are ignorant and unaware of the issues. They’re not.

    I see your posts on city-data where you essentially trash everything non Columbus. You wan’t to talk about how Columbus is going to surpass Cincinnati in 16 years when Charlotte is set to surpass Columbus in the next couple years. But yet to you that’s different because all the people in NC are NASCAR loving, confederate flag waving hicks. Never mind the growth of educated young professionals exceeds Columbus.

    Based on trends, it’s likely that, even if Charlotte passes Columbus, and it should, Columbus should remain #15 through 2020 as it passes other places. I’ve looked at this too. I’m kind of a stats guy. That said, the poster in reference that I made that post to is kind of a troll and I don’t really care to make serious responses to their posts.

    But yeah, I kind of have a low opinion of NC in general, Charlotte included. It’s far too socially conservative and sprawl-driven for my tastes. Your point about YP’s seems great on the face of things, until you realize that high growth also means you’re rapidly growing your population of HS dropouts and otherwise unemployed. Poverty in Charlotte increased much faster than in Columbus as well.

    So I get it. Columbus is better than Charlotte, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, etc. If Columbus is growing faster than another city then that proof it’s better. If Columbus is growing slower than another city, that’s just because dumb hicks are moving there and their economy is about to implode.

    Columbus is better on some things than in those cities, not everything. You think that I’m just trying to be a homer and deflect all criticism, but that’s not the case. Being a stats guy and appreciating trends and having studied them for years now, I am just comfortable saying that Columbus is doing very well and looks to continue to move in that direction. I just don’t think the type of negativity you bring to the table matches the reality on the ground.

    I could care less which city is better. I’m trying to familiarize myself with how much cities are investing in transit, urban development, how many residential units are in the pipeline, etc.

    I think what you mean is that you couldn’t care less, but if that were true, you couldn’t bring up a new favorite city in every thread. You definitely care what other cities are doing, and so far, have yet to find one that isn’t doing far better than Columbus is. How do you feel about Detroit in comparison?

    Columbus has over 10,000 residential units under construction or planned in the urban core. Whether you think that’s good enough, I don’t know. Probably not.

    Yes I feel that rail is a huge component that leads to huge amount of economic development from local as well as national companies. This is something Columbus is lacking right now.

    I agree it would be a good thing, and would love to see rail. I also think it’s going to happen sooner thna you think. However, Columbus has done just fine growth-wise and economically without it, so I just don’t see how it’s going to fall apart or hit a wall because it lacks a train. Regardless, the city will get one. It’s not a matter of if.

    But my opinions seem to be a bit more objective. You seem to be confusing me with all the people you argue with at city data. Like I said before if Columbus were to announce a large investment in rail and some type of large public private partnership to bring retail to downtown I’d probably do an about face over night.

    And that’s your main problem. I just don’t think it’s all that objective to suggest that Columbus is not doing well or is way behind because it lacks a single development. If rail is really the only thing you find important, then basically nothing else we’ve discussed so far matters one bit.

    I studied real estate development and urbanism in gradute school. We learned about go and bad development and urban planning. I’m making my decision based off of the development or policy being made not whether I like the city or not. I live in Miami, what reason would I have to argue Cincinnati is making better decisions than Columbus?

    Forgive me, but I’m sure that all the people in the 1950s and 1960s studied it as well. Their response was to gut cities at every turn. You have your view, and that’s fine, but it doesn’t make Columbus’ progress up to this point, which has been substantial, moot just because there’s not a train.

    BTW, if you plan on following me all over the internet, the other forum I post on is Urban Ohio. I also have my own Columbus website if you’re interested.

    #429357

    InnerCore
    Participant

    Chicago 9.5M+
    LA 14M+
    NY 19M+
    Philadelphia 6M+
    Dallas 6.5M+
    Washington 5.5M+
    Detroit 5M+
    Miami 5.5M+
    Boston 4.5M+
    SF 4M+
    Minneapolis 3M+
    Phoenix 4M+
    Denver 2.5M+

    Denver would be the closest comparable, they’re the smallest and the NBA and NHL share the same arena.

    #429358

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    Chicago 9.5M+
    LA 14M+
    NY 19M+
    Philadelphia 6M+
    Dallas 6.5M+
    Washington 5.5M+
    Detroit 5M+
    Miami 5.5M+
    Boston 4.5M+
    SF 4M+
    Minneapolis 3M+
    Phoenix 4M+
    Denver 2.5M+

    Denver would be the closest comparable, they’re the smallest and the NBA and NHL share the same arena.

    Thanks. So it looks like that NHL and NBA can exist in the same metro, but like has already been discussed in reference to Columbus, is not going to happen right now.

    #429359
    Josh Lapp
    Josh Lapp
    Participant

    Maybe we need a Columbus population/demographic changes thread.

    #429360

    InnerCore
    Participant

    jbcmh81 said:
    Not at all, I just don’t understand living somewhere you clearly don’t much care for. Also, if you’re serious about improving a place, I’m not sure the best way to do that is to claim everywhere else is better. Why not get out there and work with the people who are improving it instead of just complaining? You might end up with a better appreciation for just how far the city has come and for all the people working to make it better already. I feel like most of your posts are a direct insult on those efforts.

    See that the thing, you’re the one that seems to be hung up on if Columbus is better than X, Y, or Z city. I’m not going around talking about how I don’t like the people in this city or that city.

    I’m talking about mainly development policies and demographics. Saying that Cincinnati is going to benefit from a streetcar is not saying Cincinnati is better. Saying that more young professionals are moving to Denver does not mean that Denver is better. Better is extremely subjective. What I’m saying is that other cities are implementing the things now that will put them in a better position to compete and waiting decades to do the same is a mistake. Waiting 10+ years to implement rail will mean a lot of missed opportunities. Is that complaining I guess. But this is the internet. There are people here complaining in EVERY SINGLE thread. There are people here constantly complaining about rail and transit, there are people here constantly complaining about outdated zoning, there are people here complaining about sprawl. All I’m doing is bringing those arguments together to show how I feel this will negatively affect Columbus if not addressed soon.

    I think part of the disconnect is that you think I’m saying Columbus is doing bad. During the last 60 years when most of America was sprawling this put places like Cincinnati and Cleveland at an advantage. Columbus was good at annexing land, building freeways and was at the intersection of 70 and 71. Cincinnati has Kentucky to the south and Cleveland has Lake Erie to the north. Columbus has the advantage of being able to expand out in all directions. In Columbus you could go out to Hillard, get cheap land and build affordable housing and still have a quick drive if you wanted to live downtown.

    Now fast forward to today and people don’t want to live in Hillard and drive to downtown. They want to live in thriving mixed use neighborhoods with access to quality transportation where they can walk to work as well as dining events. So now that the national trends are moving back to urban areas the things that worked in Columbus’ favor are now working against it. It’s not like people are demanding rail because they’re stuck in traffic. It’s actually the opposite here. You’ve got plenty of people on here mocking rail and how only 3% of the people ride the bus. And that’s fine for them. But then when the Columbus chamber of commerce polls young people they say the lack of transit is the number one problem. You can’t expect the entire younger generation to wait another decade or so until the traffic gets bad to act.

    Meanwhile a city like Cincinnati already has a lot of this urban infrastructure in place because they once had it. It’s easier to go back into the forget urban areas and revitalize them. In Columbus most of these areas were bulldozed for parking lots.

    So to me looking back 50 to 60 years to see whats going to happen in the next 20 years isn’t a good ideal. Instead I’ve been focusing on what’s been happening in the last 5 to 10 years.

    And as far as insults I don’t see how disagreeing with the direction of the cities transportation or development is insulting, I’m not the one referring to people as hicks.

    As far as sprawl in Charlotte, here is another one of those things were you are criticizing just to criticize. Charlotte is more projects that are more dense in their urban areas than we are. And that’s not to say Charlotte is better. But I’m a proponent of urban development. I think it would be better if we could be building more dense projects like them.

    jbcmh81 said:
    Columbus is better on some things than in those cities, not everything. You think that I’m just trying to be a homer and deflect all criticism, but that’s not the case. Being a stats guy and appreciating trends and having studied them for years now, I am just comfortable saying that Columbus is doing very well and looks to continue to move in that direction. I just don’t think the type of negativity you bring to the table matches the reality on the ground.

    Again you are talking every thing inherently negative. Let’s look at Cincinnati, up to the 1950 it was growing at a rate of about 10% a decade. I’m sure in 1945 there was a guy like you that was looking at the last 4 decades saying things couldn’t be better. Then the Federal Highway Act got implemented and all of a sudden it was another ball game. Being on the river was no longer as important. Now that’s not to say Columbus is going to start losing population. As I’ve said I think it will continue to grow steadily. But to fall in complacency I think would be a mistake.

    jbcmh81 said:
    You definitely care what other cities are doing, and so far, have yet to find one that isn’t doing far better than Columbus is. How do you feel about Detroit in comparison?

    I care what’s going on in other cities in the sense that cities are essentially in competition. Since other cities are moving forward you can’t just sit still. If you standing still then essentially you’re going backwards.

    As far as Detroit I think Columbus is doing much better right now. They’ve got some serious issues, but a lot of potential. I would invest in Detroit because I don’t have that much appetite for risk.

    I think there are a lot of cities that Columbus is doing better than. But that is the difference between me and you. I don’t go to work and think about who I’m doing better than, I go to work and think about who is doing better than me. You say complaining that were not doing as good as Charlotte or Austin isn’t helpful, I say gloating that were doing better than Colorado springs isn’t helpful. If my goal was to understand the Charlotte market I would be studying what Denver, Minneapolis, Austin, Portland, etc. were doing. I wouldn’t be gloating about growing twice as fast as Columbus.

    jbcmh81 said:
    Columbus has over 10,000 residential units under construction or planned in the urban core. Whether you think that’s good enough, I don’t know. Probably not.

    That would be good enough if it were true but its not. You doing things like including development plans which are really nothing more than was some politician would like to see one day.

    If you want to talk about the actual development pipeline as in what a developer/investor would take into consideration when building there are about 6000 units in the pipeline. And that is not the urban core. Here is a report prepared by professionals for the Columbus Metro Area:

    http://www.marcusmillichap.com/research/reports/Apartment/Columbus_4Q12Apt.pdf

    The planning pipeline is overflowing with nearly 6,000 units. If all of the apartments are completed, supply will increase 4.1 percent.

    This includes project in the planning stages. Meaning I submit drawings to see if they will approve my projects. Many of these units won’t be approve, will be denied financing, or developers won’t be able to raise the equity and will never so the light of day.

    jbcmh81 said:
    I agree it would be a good thing, and would love to see rail. I also think it’s going to happen sooner thna you think. However, Columbus has done just fine growth-wise and economically without it, so I just don’t see how it’s going to fall apart or hit a wall because it lacks a train. Regardless, the city will get one. It’s not a matter of if.

    Of course Columbus has done fine without rail, all of America spent the last 50 years growing through sprawl. Who cares if you didn’t have rail when all the growth was out to the suburbs with relative low congestion on the freeway.

    But now were building urban developments and nothing is connecting them, except for the bus. That’s not going to cut it in the next decade. I guarantee you if we had rail we would have double the development going in urban Columbus. Then add in there is pretty much no real retail and entertainment options connecting them.

    And again, I’ve pointed out the CEO of COTA has said rail is a decade off. Why do you think rail will be here sooner other than wishful thinking?

    jbcmh81 said:
    And that’s your main problem. I just don’t think it’s all that objective to suggest that Columbus is not doing well or is way behind because it lacks a single development. If rail is really the only thing you find important, then basically nothing else we’ve discussed so far matters one bit.

    It’s not just rail, it’s also more mixed use development. The stuff were seeing for High Point and the LC building across the street is moving in the right direction, but Arena District, even Grandview Yards is not up the standards as to what the rest of the country is doing. Take The Banks in Cincinnati. You talking about office, residential, retail and entertainment all combined into one. SN right now is really the only area like that, and everyone can’t live right on High st.

    jbcmh81 said:
    Forgive me, but I’m sure that all the people in the 1950s and 1960s studied it as well. Their response was to gut cities at every turn. You have your view, and that’s fine, but it doesn’t make Columbus’ progress up to this point, which has been substantial, moot just becuase there’s not a train.

    And cities like Columbus understood and gut their cities while racing out to the suburbs because that’s what that generation wanted. Now we need to see which cities will adapt fastest to the newer generation that wants to move back to the city.

    #429361

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    Inner, if you want to continue this conversation, great, but I think, as far as this thread goes, we are now just rehashing everything that’s already been said and pulled this way off topic to boot. You can message me if you want to further this.

    #429362

    GCrites80s
    Participant

    “Tome” is the word I was looking for.

    #429363
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    I think at this point, we simply got an NHL team instead. Sadly, we got the perpetually worst team in hockey and the attendance numbers are starting to reflect it (finally). Anyone looking at Columbus for another pro sports team will look at those numbers, and they’re not going to say “yeah…they suck…but the Bluejackets are bad”…they’re just going to say “no one is paying to see the NHL in Columbus”.

    #429364

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    This isn’t possible to happen, for sure the home of Lakers will strike that some opponents are concurring their hometown. And many NBA fans specially for Lakers will protest.

    Regards.
    Sandy Collin of http://www.dynamitepicks.com/

    #1008568

    bjones7
    Participant

    Milwaukee escapes from being moved! Worst team in NBA sold: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2031486-milwaukee-bucks-to-be-sold-to-wesley-edens-and-marc-lasry-for-550-million?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t2

    We shall see! but I still think that Columbus might get a opportunity to have a NBA team within the next 10 years.

    #1008636

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    Milwaukee escapes from being moved! Worst team in NBA sold: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2031486-milwaukee-bucks-to-be-sold-to-wesley-edens-and-marc-lasry-for-550-million?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t2

    We shall see! but I still think that Columbus might get a opportunity to have a NBA team within the next 10 years.

    I don’t. If anything the league will contract and eliminate some teams within that timeframe.

    #1008645

    buckeyecpa
    Participant

    The league won’t contract again. No team is truly struggling to generate revenue. Most often it’s accounting tricks that show a loss. Seattle gets a team before anyone. I would love for us to have a team. I think our city can support it. But Seattle should not be without.

    #1008759

    InnerCore
    Participant

    The league won’t contract again. No team is truly struggling to generate revenue. Most often it’s accounting tricks that show a loss. Seattle gets a team before anyone. I would love for us to have a team. I think our city can support it. But Seattle should not be without.

    I agree that Seattle would be the market that makes the most sense. However I don’t really think its about whether Columbus can “support” an NBA team. Here is a rough breakdown the of the current NBA teams by territory:

    There just isn’t enough people in the region to support another team. So sure OKC is in a smaller market then say Columbus but there isn’t another NBA team anywhere near them so from a national perspective it becomes a larger market for TV.

    The only way Columbus gets an NBA team is if the Cavs move here which isn’t likely.

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