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Nationwide Children's Hospital - News & Discussion

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Development Nationwide Children's Hospital – News & Discussion

This topic contains 118 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by  heresthecasey 3 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 119 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #458092
    Caleb
    Caleb
    Participant

    I mean, if you’re in a hospital, you don’t tend to go “explore the city” that often…..

    #458093
    Jason Powell
    Jason Powell
    Participant

    ^^ Still no excuse for poor design, hospital or not.

    #458094
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    CalebR said:
    I mean, if you’re in a hospital, you don’t tend to go “explore the city” that often…..

    Nationwide Childrens Hospital has over 10,000 employees and nearly a million annual outpatient visits:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_Children's_Hospital

    I imagine their number of non-patient visitors probably tops a million as well.

    That’s a lot of people who could be walking in the neighborhood to other places for food, shopping, etc.

    #458095

    mfl243
    Participant

    Hospital’s rarely make the best of neighbors (see Jane Jacob’s discussion in her seminal work). NCH has a mixed record in the neighborhood. However, a complete discussion would include the effect of cutting I-70 through the area decades ago. NCH is not the only player in the part of town.

    #458096

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    mfl243 said:
    Hospital’s rarely make the best of neighbors (see Jane Jacob’s discussion in her seminal work). NCH has a mixed record in the neighborhood. However, a complete discussion would include the effect of cutting I-70 through the area decades ago. NCH is not the only player in the part of town.

    This is true. Certainly I-70’s construction was responsible for the clean slate destruction north of Children’s. But there is plenty south of the highway that NCH is directly or indirectly responsible for removing.

    #458097

    mfl243
    Participant

    So, what’s your verdict? What’s been removed and what’s been built ? Weigh the good/bad,..where does NCH come out?

    #458098

    myliftkk
    Participant

    Walker said:
    Nationwide Childrens Hospital has over 10,000 employees and nearly a million annual outpatient visits:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_Children's_Hospital

    I imagine their number of non-patient visitors probably tops a million as well.

    That’s a lot of people who could be walking in the neighborhood to other places for food, shopping, etc.

    I wouldn’t bet anything on outpatient visits, no matter their scale, being conducive to any non-hospital oriented business in proximity to any hospital (outside of fast food). I’ve seen our company flush millions of dollars down the drain because they made the mistake of thinking people mix pleasurable day trips with medical services, and they absolutely do not. From a dispassionate numerical standpoint, any outside observer would look at the numbers and think to themselves sure, it has got to work, but I’ll speak from long time industry experience, it does not work and never will.

    ETA: So in effect Caleb’s right, even though he might not understand why.

    #458099
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    myliftkk said:
    I wouldn’t bet anything on outpatient visits…

    Ok, how about other hospital visitors and the 10,000 employees then?

    #458100

    myliftkk
    Participant

    mfl243 said:
    Hospital’s rarely make the best of neighbors (see Jane Jacob’s discussion in her seminal work). NCH has a mixed record in the neighborhood. However, a complete discussion would include the effect of cutting I-70 through the area decades ago. NCH is not the only player in the part of town.

    This sort of cuts both ways. In many cases hospitals own huge tracts of property even larger than their visible footprint suggests. Our company for example quite often owns/purchases homes/commercial in the immediate vicinity (1-2 mile radius) around an existing facility for future expansion plans. As such, the land rarely gets redeveloped to potential until it’s turned into something for the facility (so you’ve not generally seen much improvements in housing/reatil in the interim). On the other hand, oftentimes that housing will house healthcare workers, which depending on the area, may be a marked improvement over the previous residents in terms of their financial stability. For example, we own the land that even the fast food franchises that serve the immediate facilities sit on. We own the closest hotel to our main facility, etc.

    On the other hand, there’s undoubtedly greater security in the immediate area as a result of the expansion of NCH (friends who are homeowners in that area already attest to that). But, it’s highly unlikely you’ll end up with a community like German Village immediately surrounding the facility.

    #458101

    myliftkk
    Participant

    Walker said:
    Ok, how about other hospital visitors and the 10,000 employees then?

    Ok, I’ll break those down.

    Visitors – There’s going to be little interest beyond fast/fast causal food to pretty much any visitor to a hospital setting. And let’s be honest, that’s why in house cafeteria’s exist in the first place. Again, it’s not about the numerical numbers, it’s about the pyschological factors in play. Look around any major healthcare facility and take note of what commercial development exists over a long period of time. There’s a reason for it.

    Also, medical facility rent will in fact surpass rents garnered for traditional commerical rents, so there’s even more pressure to use outlying buildings for medical purposes, versus a variety of other commercial purposes.

    Employees – Now, whether or not NCH has 10k employees on site (because facilities are increasingly moving to digital work distribution), is debatable. But, let’s say the bulk of them work at the facility. For hourly positions, their time is going to be strictly controlled by the work/shift clock, excluding long lunches from being an option. Hourly positions also aren’t going to be highly paid to the point where eating in someplace like GV makes sense. Med staff positions on the other hand, while not as financially constrained, are highly time constrained. I’ve lived and eaten in GV in quite some quantity over the years. You know how many people I’ve seen in scrubs in that time, not enough to even remember one.

    So that leaves the salaried positions as those most likely to have both the resources and time to venture out into the immediate area. Now, add in lunch meetings/bring your own/in house cafeteria options & more/time in-or-out of parking garage (which is a real pita in most med facilities), and the number of trips off facility get steadily reduced.

    And what do the workers do when they get off, they mostly go home. I know, I worked with thousands of people in a facilities in the heart of Orlando. Barely any of them could tell you what commercial business existed within the immediate area. They came, they did their jobs, and they went home. To the extent they went out at all, they went out solely to eat lunch. Nothing about the business encourages any other behavior.

    #458102

    mfl243
    Participant

    To the point in your last paragraph, about workers exiting the area post-shift, I think you are mostly correct. However, the placement of a gym near enough to the hospital to make a pre or post-shift workout feasible and convenient may be an inspired choice.

    And in the spirit of full disclosure, I do work at NCH. Unfortunately, I repeatedly hear from staff, families and other folks there how ‘scary’ the neighborhood is around the hospital.

    #458103

    myliftkk
    Participant

    mfl243 said:
    To the point in your last paragraph, about workers exiting the area post-shift, I think you are mostly correct. However, the placement of a gym near enough to the hospital to make a pre or post-shift workout feasible and convenient may be an inspired choice.

    And in the spirit of full disclosure, I do work at NCH. Unfortunately, I repeatedly hear from staff, families and other folks there how ‘scary’ the neighborhood is around the hospital.

    Many major healthcare facilities have their own gym facilities, fwiw. We do.

    ETA: That attitude is not the least bit uncommon among suburban residents who work at urban facilities. You’d hear the same at the main campus where I worked.

    #458104

    heresthecasey
    Participant

    I understand NCH’s motivation and reasoning behind their land use patterns, it works best for their own interests and so far there has been no significant opposition.

    However, Livingston and Parsons are major city streets that should serve the interests of the entire community, not just the hospital. Bulldozing everything that borders their campus for acres of surface parking is not being a good neighbor. Period. The community uses Livingston Park, the community rides the #1 and #4 bus along these roads, the community occupied homes and patronized businesses there that are now asphalt lots. Their own employees or visitors may not take advantage of surrounding establishments and resources in the neighborhood, but many other people would (and did).

    I applaud NCH’s social initiatives and other outreach services, but they need to start working in the mutual best interest of themselves and the community regarding their campus development and land use patterns. Imagine if White Cross Hospital had stayed in their old location on Buttles and expanded around Goodale Park in the same manner that Children’s has expanded around Livingston.

    A vibrant city street and a successful neighboring hospital shouldn’t be mutually exclusive. What’s already done is done, I just hope NCH acts as a better partner to its surroundings going forward.

    #458105

    sirlancelot
    Participant

    I used to live near the area, and it looks better now than 10 years ago. What NCH should be doing is assist in creating more local affordable housing options for both area residents and lower salaried employees.

    #458106
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    myliftkk said:
    Ok, I’ll break those down.

    Thanks for all of the extra info. There are certainly big challenges to overcome with this type of thing. I can’t help but wonder how much of that employee and visitor mindset is encouraged by the development configuration and how much is just normal human behavior patterns.

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