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Kasich Requires Schools to have a Religious Partner for New State Funding

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics Kasich Requires Schools to have a Religious Partner for New State Funding

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 91 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1055522
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    I understand the pushback in having a religious component associated with public schools. Traditionally we have not done that as a nation. I am one for giving it a try if it gets through the courts.

    Actually, we have had a religious component associated with public schools. Prayer was permitted in schools through about 1962, if memory serves, until the Supreme Court stepped in.

    #1055523

    Bear
    Participant

    Answer: A mentorship program is likely to have a beneficial impact, regardless of a religious affiliation.

    Therefore, the religious affiliation is unnecessary, specifically when it comes to public funding for public schools.

    Thread winner.

    #1055524

    Bear
    Participant

    So I’ll keep pressing with what I think is working. As a private school who champions religious principles I see many of our students nationwide changing their lives. I understand the pushback in having a religious component associated with public schools. Traditionally we have not done that as a nation. I am one for giving it a try if it gets through the courts.

    First of all, I respect the time and effort that you put in on behalf of kids. I really do. And respectfully, I fundamentally disagree with the idea of having a religious component associated with public schools.

    I’ve had teachers who were religious and teachers who weren’t. I’ve been taught by liberals and conservatives. In most cases, though, I never knew it, one way or the other. Most of my own teachers recognized the position of influence that they hold over their students and refrained from even hinting at their own personal beliefs. They allowed us to make our own decisions and to grow in our own direction as human beings and citizens. I consider teaching to be one of our most honorable professions, and I think that bringing one’s personal beliefs into the classroom fundamentally dishonors it.

    #1055525
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    I do think Ragland’s school is awesome -in terms of how it works and the results it achieves.

    Very much agreed. Cristo Rey is doing terrific work thus far. Here’s hoping that continues.

    There are a variety of schools in Columbus doing excellent work. Here’s to keeping that variety.

    #1055526
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Knowing what you know about the success rate of students in Columbus City Schools, if this were to be approved, implemented, and found to work by making kids smarter and better behaved, would you support it, yes or no?

    Here’s the thing about Columbus City Schools… some are good and some are not. If you expand the scope to take a look at public schools in suburban communities, you find many public schools that are doing quite well. The difference between the ones doing well and the ones not doing well is not religion.

    So I’ll keep pressing with what I think is working.

    That’s fine. Just keep it in private/religious schools and it’s a win-win for everyone. ;)

    #1055529

    gramarye
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Friendoffacts wrote:</div>
    The funds for this proposed program are lottery profits.

    I noticed that and wondered, how many times can the not-as-much-as-expected lottery profits be spent?

    Somewhat cynically, this is all for marketing purposes; there is no legally walled-off fund into which the lottery/casino revenue goes as opposed to general tax dollars. They can line-item it separately for accounting (or, more accurately, for marketing) purposes, but it takes no greater or lesser or in any way different effort to allocate funds from the lottery/casino revenue as from the general fund. It all goes to the regular appropriations process.

    #1055530

    gramarye
    Participant

    Back on the issue of the requirements themselves: I have no particular objection, and I don’t think the Constitution would object, to having religious mentors permitted, including with public dollars; the analogue with the voucher program would in that case be pretty strong. The issue is that religious mentors are required. If I read the tea leaves right, the Kasich administration is setting up the argument that it puts religious and secular mentors on an equal footing due to the pairing requirement: applications are to come from pairs of entities, one faith-based program and one presumably secular local business. But that doesn’t change the fact that there is a mandated religious component.

    The point of the facial neutrality requirement is that, to use the voucher program as a parallel again, even if at the start of the program, religious schools were basically the only options, the fact that the program was open to secular alternatives created a possible opening for a secular private school startup to enter the space and begin competing for those public dollars on the same footing as the religious alternatives. The program would create market space that hadn’t existed before. However, an express religious requirement would eliminate that possibility in the voucher space (and would very likely have swung the case the other way, based on the Supreme Court’s announced standard), and the same thing is probable here.

    I understand that you want to go beyond the legal question here, but in this particular case, the legal question and the moral question to me are one and the same, because in this case, I think the Constitution and the Supreme Court get it exactly right. And I don’t say that about all Constitutional provisions and certainly not about all Supreme Court decisions, but in this case, I do. The difference between permission and compulsion is extremely relevant to the Free Exercise issue, and more importantly, it’s relevant to the very reasons we have the Free Exercise Clause in the first place.

    #1055544
    Josh Lapp
    Josh Lapp
    Participant

    Sometimes I wonder whether people genuinely want to see people doing better. A “religion that believes they should be put to death?” Are you serious? We are dying anyway. Have you visited any prison in this state? It’s filled with black men and boys, but you’d be against something that could benefit them long term due to a perceived indoctrination that caused them to go to college and get a job? Yeah, that’s sounds a lot like right.

    I, like others here, appreciate what your school is doing. From everything I have read and have seen, it seems like a great program and you have done wonders with the school building. My hope is, that your school, unlike other Catholic and religious schools chooses to abide by a policy of non-discrimination towards staff, students, and curriculum. It was only a year ago that another Central Ohio Catholic school fired a gay teacher for that reason alone.

    I’m guessing James, you aren’t LGBT, so I can see how you have diminished concerns for LGBT equality versus racial or income inequality. All need addressed, and I hope for your students sake that you think about these issues and can understand why some of us would be concerned that a government program would REQUIRE the involvement of the very groups who are legally allowed to discriminate against LGBT individuals (and do).

    #1055549

    DavidF
    Participant

    I’m astounded at the refusal to answer my direct question. If it helps kids, would you change your stance and support! What’s so hard about answering that?

    Here’s a direct answer. No, under no circumstances do I support public funding that has a mandatory religious component. For the same reason I don’t support torture regardless of outcome.

    #1055558

    Clergy that serve in the armed forces: public tax money that pays for a position that is mandatorily religious.

    #1055560
    Friendoffacts
    Friendoffacts
    Participant

    Proposed student mentoring program with religious affiliation = $10 Million in public funds

    Ohio’s largely unregulated, but results based, Charter Schools annual budget = $900 Million in public funds

    #1055562

    DavidF
    Participant

    Clergy that serve in the armed forces: public tax money that pays for a position that is mandatorily religious.

    And not one member of the armed forces is required to interact with them.

    #1055564

    I don’t see anything in the grant application that involves required interaction on the part of students.

    No big deal. I’m pretty pragmatic on this. I think the provision was ridiculous, that Kasich could have reached his “religious goal” without creating that rule.

    Noting that Cristo Rey is 87% economically disadvantaged: there is only one school that I can think of that has the same success rate with the same population, and it’s a charter school. The rich CCS schools do fine, that’s not the case for a single poor one.

    #1055583

    gramarye
    Participant

    Proposed student mentoring program with religious affiliation = $10 Million in public funds

    Ohio’s largely unregulated, but results based, Charter Schools annual budget = $900 Million in public funds

    The size of the expense is irrelevant to the legal issue, though it’s of course relevant in more mundane ways.

    But Congress could, for $0, pass a resolution that says “Islam is hereby established as the official religion of the United States.” That $0 expenditure doesn’t change the fact that that would be obviously unconstitutional.

    #1055590
    Friendoffacts
    Friendoffacts
    Participant

    Legally, sure…but most of the indignation has centered around the mundane and usage of public funds.

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 91 total)

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