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Kasich Requires Schools to have a Religious Partner for New State Funding

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics Kasich Requires Schools to have a Religious Partner for New State Funding

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 91 total)
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  • #1055438

    Alex Silbajoris
    Participant

    If it helps kids, would you change your stance and support

    Does it help kids to teach them that they are condemned to eternal damnation unless they accept a particular religious faith?

    #1055441
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    I would not. Paddling leads to physical harm of children. I do not believe these two issues are one in the same. I will say that if paddling were put on the ballot, I believe there would be more support for it than we might imagine, unfortunately. Mentoring is not equal to paddling.

    He’s not suggesting they’re equivalent, of course.

    He’s suggesting that your argument–that the only question that matters is whether or not it helps children–can’t be considered without considering all of the other factors at play. You rightly consider more than that question when it comes to using physical punishment to educate children. But you want to disregard all the other questions when it comes to using religion to educate children in public schools.

    #1055442
    Friendoffacts
    Friendoffacts
    Participant

    The funds for this proposed program are lottery profits, not “my tax dollars”.

    In regards to those concerned about potential religious teachings or prejudice…

    From the PD article:
    “grants can’t be used to pay anyone whose duties include religious worship, instruction or proselytization”.

    I don’t have a horse in this race, but I might recommend that posters read either or both the PD and Dispatch articles, if only for clarity.

    #1055443

    James Ragland
    Participant

    I would not. Paddling leads to physical harm of children. I do not believe these two issues are one in the same. I will say that if paddling were put on the ballot, I believe there would be more support for it than we might imagine, unfortunately. Mentoring is not equal to paddling.

    He’s not suggesting they’re equivalent, of course.

    He’s suggesting that your argument–that the only question that matters is whether or not it helps children–can’t be considered without considering all of the other factors at play. You rightly consider more than that question when it comes to using physical punishment to educate children. But you want to disregard all the other questions when it comes to using religion to educate children in public schools.

    I am not disregarding anything. I’m asking for a straight answer. Knowing what you know about the success rate of students in Columbus City Schools, if this were to be approved, implemented, and found to work by making kids smarter and better behaved, would you support it, yes or no? I’m not even asking for a why! Laws are amended all the time. We just amended the Columbus City Charter because the public felt it was dated. If bringing faith based mentors to students is found to increase their academic proficiency and behavior, then yes I would support it. More kids going to college or having the ability to become gainfully employed immediately following High School is something that I would hope we could all get behind.

    #1055444

    nohio
    Participant

    https://au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/problematic-partnerships-ohio-initiative-compels-public-schools-to-link-up

    Another perspective from outside the state and found in Rev. Barry Lynn’s well-respected American’s United for the Separation of Church and State-
    see the above site.

    #1055445
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    Let’s try it this way.

    Would you support converting all public schools (elementary through professional schools) into religious schools if the outcomes were shown to be superior?

    #1055446
    Anne Evans
    Anne Evans
    Keymaster

    The funds for this proposed program are lottery profits.

    I noticed that and wondered, how many times can the not-as-much-as-expected lottery profits be spent?

    #1055447

    Bear
    Participant

    Let’s try it this way.
    Would you support converting all public schools (elementary through professional schools) into religious schools if the outcomes were shown to be superior?

    And if the religion were Islam?

    #1055448

    Bear
    Participant

    I am not disregarding anything. I’m asking for a straight answer. Knowing what you know about the success rate of students in Columbus City Schools, if this were to be approved, implemented, and found to work by making kids smarter and better behaved, would you support it, yes or no? I’m not even asking for a why! Laws are amended all the time. We just amended the Columbus City Charter because the public felt it was dated. If bringing faith based mentors to students is found to increase their academic proficiency and behavior, then yes I would support it. More kids going to college or having the ability to become gainfully employed immediately following High School is something that I would hope we could all get behind.

    But not if you have to paddle them in order to achieve that outcome, as you yourself answered earlier.

    The fundamental disconnect here is that you see precisely no inherent cost to using public schools as a vehicle for religious influence. I do, and I think many others here do as well.

    #1055449
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    More kids going to college or having the ability to become gainfully employed immediately following High School is something that I would hope we could all get behind.

    Generally, of course. No one will oppose this. The means to this end matter, however.

    #1055469
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    I’m astounded at the refusal to answer my direct question. If it helps kids, would you change your stance and support! What’s so hard about answering that?

    Answer: A mentorship program is likely to have a beneficial impact, regardless of a religious affiliation.

    Therefore, the religious affiliation is unnecessary, specifically when it comes to public funding for public schools.

    #1055472
    Josh Lapp
    Josh Lapp
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bear wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Ragland wrote:</div><br>
    If the legal challenges allow for the program, and after years of research it shows that the program improves the academic proficiency and overall behavior of students, would you change your stance and be supportive?

    Would you change your stance on paddling if it turned out to produce better behavior and more academic proficiency?

    I would not. Paddling leads to physical harm of children. I do not believe these two issues are one in the same. I will say that if paddling were put on the ballot, I believe there would be more support for it than we might imagine, unfortunately. Mentoring is not equal to paddling.

    I’m astounded at the refusal to answer my direct question. If it helps kids, would you change your stance and support! What’s so hard about answering that?

    No, I would not be ok with it, despite academic results, because a gay student, proselytized by a religious mentor may score high on a state text but still may be physiologically harmed by an intensely religious mentor. This is especially true the with young men of color. So the kids can’t be physically abused (paddled), but mentally indoctrinated with a religion that believes they should be put to death is ok?

    I don’t think you understand the extent that religion can harm those who are non-traditional, for life.

    #1055519

    James Ragland
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Ragland wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bear wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Ragland wrote:</div><br><br>
    If the legal challenges allow for the program, and after years of research it shows that the program improves the academic proficiency and overall behavior of students, would you change your stance and be supportive?

    Would you change your stance on paddling if it turned out to produce better behavior and more academic proficiency?

    I would not. Paddling leads to physical harm of children. I do not believe these two issues are one in the same. I will say that if paddling were put on the ballot, I believe there would be more support for it than we might imagine, unfortunately. Mentoring is not equal to paddling.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Ragland wrote:</div>
    I’m astounded at the refusal to answer my direct question. If it helps kids, would you change your stance and support! What’s so hard about answering that?

    No, I would not be ok with it, despite academic results, because a gay student, proselytized by a religious mentor may score high on a state text but still may be physiologically harmed by an intensely religious mentor. This is especially true the with young men of color. So the kids can’t be physically abused (paddled), but mentally indoctrinated with a religion that believes they should be put to death is ok?

    I don’t think you understand the extent that religion can harm those who are non-traditional, for life.

    Sometimes I wonder whether people genuinely want to see people doing better. A “religion that believes they should be put to death?” Are you serious? We are dying anyway. Have you visited any prison in this state? It’s filled with black men and boys, but you’d be against something that could benefit them long term due to a perceived indoctrination that caused them to go to college and get a job? Yeah, that’s sounds a lot like right.

    #1055520

    James Ragland
    Participant

    So I’ll keep pressing with what I think is working. As a private school who champions religious principles I see many of our students nationwide changing their lives. I understand the pushback in having a religious component associated with public schools. Traditionally we have not done that as a nation. I am one for giving it a try if it gets through the courts.

    #1055521

    I do think Ragland’s school is awesome -in terms of how it works and the results it achieves. It’d be nice if it was big enough to serve every kid in CMH.

    But, that religious provision in the application? Bait, bait, bait.

    Ever applied for grant money? The decisions are not objective. Just put people on the application review committee that like religion . . . or send the application out saying “community and religious groups are strongly encouraged to apply”.

    Then magically, the religious groups are the ones who get funded. No special rules needed.

    The provision that mandates religious affiliation in the application process is just to peeve some peoples.

    Looks like it worked.

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 91 total)

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