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Kasich Requires Schools to have a Religious Partner for New State Funding

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics Kasich Requires Schools to have a Religious Partner for New State Funding

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 91 total)
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  • #1055417

    Mike88
    Participant

    Heck try enlisting any mosque, temple, or shrine and see if they get approval.

    This all the way, I would love to see that happen.

    #1055418

    James Ragland
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Ragland wrote:</div>
    “Whether the results are good or bad doesn’t matter.”

    I would have to disagree there. It’s hard to imagine educators saying, “Although academic proficiency has improved and negative discipline occurrences are way down because of this change, I’d prefer to go back to the old way we did things where faith based folks were not allowed in the schools, students academic performance was woeful, and our classrooms were out of control.”

    Yeah, I’ll wait on that.

    If it’s not constitutional, all of this is a moot point. That’s what the above poster is saying. Respectfully, the constitutional question is not to be taken lightly since legal activity is in motion before anyone has even applied under this program.

    Understood. Say it goes through and ends up being a net positive for kids. Would you support it?

    #1055419

    James Ragland
    Participant

    I think organizations like this one would play a major role in handling the diversity issues raised here.
    http://iaco.org/

    #1055420
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    These are not questions of diversity or of efficacy. These are threshold legal questions.

    These are not issues in the school for which you work so passionately, because it is not a public school.

    #1055421

    James Ragland
    Participant

    These are not questions of diversity or of efficacy. These are threshold legal questions.

    These are not issues in the school for which you work so passionately, because it is not a public school.

    We are a private school, but we do not have traditional private school demographics. 87% of our students are free/reduced lunch eligible. That is a higher percentage than many CCS neighborhood schools. While I do “work” in a private school, my own children attend CCS schools. My oldest child attends a CCS neighborhood school and my youngest attends a CCS Lottery or “Alternative” choice school. I frequent those locations as well. I know the children, especially those at my son’s high school personally, and they need interactions with more people who are believers in them and God. I understand the legal issue.

    I am still not hearing anyone tell me that they would oppose the program if the legal issue was somehow overcome and the program proved to work to the benefit of children. That is consistent with a lot that I see in our City. We speak publicly about our thoughts on subjects which are mainstream, but our actions and thoughts privately are quite different.

    So, I’ll ask again:
    If the legal challenges allow for the program, and after years of research it shows that the program improves the academic proficiency and overall behavior of students, would you change your stance and be supportive?

    #1055422

    gramarye
    Participant

    On the “results don’t matter” issue, note that the results still matter in the meantime, if this program gets anywhere before the constitutional case gets resolved (which could take some time). That’s because if the results are positive, the law could be reformed to be religion-neutral if/when it gets ruled as going too far under the First Amendment; if the results are negative, the almost-inevitable adverse ruling can simply be allowed to end the program entirely.

    #1055423

    OneBagTravel
    Participant

    So James, when it comes down to it, you’re all for disregarding the first amendment as long as it yields warm and fuzzy results? Maybe this can all be done outside of state funding and infringing on the separation of church and state. I’m still a strong believer in summer camps and retreats sponsored by local churches, just keep it out of public schools. This coming from someone who had 9 years of catholic school growing up.

    #1055425
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>MichaelC wrote:</div>
    These are not questions of diversity or of efficacy. These are threshold legal questions.

    These are not issues in the school for which you work so passionately, because it is not a public school.

    We are a private school, but we do not have traditional private school demographics. 87% of our students are free/reduced lunch eligible. That is a higher percentage than many CCS neighborhood schools. While I do “work” in a private school, my own children attend CCS schools. My oldest child attends a CCS neighborhood school and my youngest attends a CCS Lottery or “Alternative” choice school. I frequent those locations as well. I know the children, especially those at my son’s high school personally, and they need interactions with more people who are believers in them and God. I understand the legal issue.

    Cristo Rey is a Catholic school, supported by the Catholic Diocese of Columbus. And that’s terrific. But for the sake of this conversation–one about legality–that’s the key, not the makeup of the student population.

    That your son’s classmates “need interactions with more people who are believers…in God” is your opinion. But that opinion of yours is not a reason to suggest its legality in public schools, as is the case at the Catholic school at which you work.

    #1055427
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    If you don’t want to partner with faith based entities, don’t apply for the funding.

    We’re probably just going to have to agree to disagree because this statement is just not being framed correctly with regards to what we’re discussing here.

    If a school wants to apply for the funding, it shouldn’t require the stipulation of religion, regardless of whether some individual parents want religion in schools or not.

    …many families would not be up in arms if Ohio law changed and allowed for prayer in schools.

    You could probably take a poll with certain groups of people and come to the conclusion that some families would not be up in arms if laws changed to allow racial segregation in schools again.

    But that wouldn’t make it right.

    #1055428
    Josh Lapp
    Josh Lapp
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Ragland wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>MichaelC wrote:</div><br>
    These are not questions of diversity or of efficacy. These are threshold legal questions.

    These are not issues in the school for which you work so passionately, because it is not a public school.

    We are a private school, but we do not have traditional private school demographics. 87% of our students are free/reduced lunch eligible. That is a higher percentage than many CCS neighborhood schools. While I do “work” in a private school, my own children attend CCS schools. My oldest child attends a CCS neighborhood school and my youngest attends a CCS Lottery or “Alternative” choice school. I frequent those locations as well. I know the children, especially those at my son’s high school personally, and they need interactions with more people who are believers in them and God. I understand the legal issue.

    Cristo Rey is a Catholic school, supported by the Catholic Diocese of Columbus. And that’s terrific. But for the sake of this conversation–one about legality–that’s the key, not the makeup of the student population.

    That your son’s classmates “need interactions with more people who are believers…in God” is your opinion. But that opinion of yours is not a reason to suggest its legality in public schools, as is the case at the Catholic school at which you work.

    Are there going to be studies on how LGBT children or other non-traditional children have experiences after “mentoring” by religious programs? Are we going to have studies on the long term consequences of women who were mentored by the programs from faiths who believe that woman should not be educated? Is there any possible outcome that a secular mentoring program could be successful? Beyond the constitutional questions involved I think that seeing this issue from a different perspective would benefit the argument.

    I don’t think that most of us would argue against faith based programs being involved in this program. Its the requirement that faith based programs MUST be involved.

    #1055429

    James Ragland
    Participant

    I think where I disagree is whether or not this is strictly a “legal” issue for the sake of this conversation. Elections have consequences. I would assume that the political will is present to push this through. While many folks may lament the election of the Governor, we have to work with him. Where there are areas in which improving the lives of children are concerned, we should all keep an open mind. What we are currently doing is not working for our kids in many areas of Columbus. The rate of children living in poverty or homeless is too high. The rate of children dropping out or failing in school is too high. I believe the church can play a role in helping to solve many of these problems. And this program, if given the green light through the courts can help.

    For instance, my sons school is in close proximity to First Church of God and New Birth on Refugee Rd. Both of these congregations, totaling over approx. 4000 people collectively have professionals who can be a beacon of light that is sorely needed for many of the kids at Ridge. Both congregations have demonstrated an ability to produce and sustain long term, successful youth programming through its membership. If funding from the state can be used to help congregations like these infuse our district with faith filled members who can mentor these young boys who have never known a father, I think it is at least worth a try. If the women who attend churches like these and others can go into our schools and help guide our young ladies away from a lifestyle that ends in teenage pregnancy or worse, let’s do it. If by chance, the funding can be used to get professionals who can tutor in subject areas that students are currently failing in and help them achieve, I would be for it. What we KNOW is that the current structure in place is not working on a macro level. I can think of worse places to look for solutions than the church. I am taking the approach that this will pass legal muster. I would hope the public would support the effort and if they do not want their children to participate, keep them out of it. I am just a believer that if you told the teachers at Walnut Ridge that a group of mentors was coming from First Church to adopt the kids of that school, they would say, “Thank God!” Pun intended.

    #1055432

    Bear
    Participant

    If the legal challenges allow for the program, and after years of research it shows that the program improves the academic proficiency and overall behavior of students, would you change your stance and be supportive?

    Would you change your stance on paddling if it turned out to produce better behavior and more academic proficiency?

    #1055433

    James Ragland
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Ragland wrote:</div>
    If you don’t want to partner with faith based entities, don’t apply for the funding.

    We’re probably just going to have to agree to disagree because this statement is just not being framed correctly with regards to what we’re discussing here.

    If a school wants to apply for the funding, it shouldn’t require the stipulation of religion, regardless of whether some individual parents want religion in schools or not.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Ragland wrote:</div>
    …many families would not be up in arms if Ohio law changed and allowed for prayer in schools.

    You could probably take a poll with certain groups of people and come to the conclusion that some families would not be up in arms if laws changed to allow racial segregation in schools again.

    But that wouldn’t make it right.

    My friend, Public schools have become racially segregated again. Sure, they may not be that way 100% but there are many schools in Central Ohio that lack diversity because the neighborhoods that feed them lack diversity. Not saying it’s right, just saying its real.

    #1055435

    James Ragland
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>James Ragland wrote:</div>
    If the legal challenges allow for the program, and after years of research it shows that the program improves the academic proficiency and overall behavior of students, would you change your stance and be supportive?

    Would you change your stance on paddling if it turned out to produce better behavior and more academic proficiency?

    I would not. Paddling leads to physical harm of children. I do not believe these two issues are one in the same. I will say that if paddling were put on the ballot, I believe there would be more support for it than we might imagine, unfortunately. Mentoring is not equal to paddling.

    #1055436

    James Ragland
    Participant

    I’m astounded at the refusal to answer my direct question. If it helps kids, would you change your stance and support! What’s so hard about answering that?

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 91 total)

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