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Kasich Requires Schools to have a Religious Partner for New State Funding

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics Kasich Requires Schools to have a Religious Partner for New State Funding

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 91 total)
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  • #1055320

    Alex Silbajoris
    Participant

    Yep. Between the ACLU lawsuit and “unfavorable” religions like the Church of Satan getting involved, I don’t see this requirement lasting very long.

    Good point, this has potential for some rich, ripe farce.

    #1055321

    James Ragland
    Participant

    This is very interesting. I have found, at least within my community that people who I associate with are clamoring for more faith based partnerships within schools. It’s one of the major reasons why Cristo Rey has been so successful in recruiting students to the school in its first few years. As I was campaigning for CCS School Board a few years back, one thing I heard consistently from parents was that they wanted our churches to be involved directly with the schools, and specifically wanted “prayer in schools” to return. If you ask teachers who currently teach in CCS Schools, many of them bemoan the lack of morality that many of our families come into the schools with. It will be interesting to see the details of how this works. Districts are able to essentially opt out of this funding, so it seems like the only districts who can get it are ones who want to try it. I am not one to pooh pooh this right away.

    #1055328

    Alex Silbajoris
    Participant

    If the churches want to get involved, fine, go for it. But to make it a requirement is an imposition of religion on the public, specifically children.

    #1055329
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    If you ask teachers who currently teach in CCS Schools, many of them bemoan the lack of morality that many of our families come into the schools with.

    Morality doesn’t exclusively come from religion.

    Districts are able to essentially opt out of this funding, so it seems like the only districts who can get it are ones who want to try it.

    “Opt out” is a ridiculous way to put it.

    The school that my children attend has a *very* diverse range of students and families from all kinds of backgrounds. There are kids who are christian, jewish, islamic, catholic, etc, and some with no religion at all. Picking ONE organization to align the school with in order to qualify for government funding would be conflicting with the beliefs of many other students.

    It’s a stupid qualifier.

    #1055330

    joev
    Participant

    I kind of don’t care what the teachers and parents are asking for; layering religion into public schools is not appropriate on any level. Columbus is an extremely diverse community, and partnering with an organization with a religious mission does not show any respect for that diversity.

    #1055341

    OneBagTravel
    Participant

    I for one am pooh poohing this right away.

    #1055352

    gramarye
    Participant

    Another follow-up article from Cleveland.com:

    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/ohio_department_of_education_added_the_religious_requirement_to_gov_kasichs_student_mentoring_program.html

    I’m going to try to look more into this when I have more time and when more direct information becomes available. It looks like this rule is regulatory, not built into the law itself, which means the Kasich administration and his Department of Education might back off or qualify it somewhat (whether or not under threat of suit) before money actually starts being distributed. However, even as reported, it’s not clear that it crosses First Amendment lines, and at the end of the day, it’s a fairly small program.

    #1055359

    joev
    Participant

    Furthermore, this is worst for the districts that have very little diversity.

    #1055367

    gramarye
    Participant

    Why is that? And why would that even matter? A district without many Hindus isn’t likely to have a wide selection of Hindu mentorship/connection organizations to draw from, but it also is presumptively highly unlikely to be looking for one, either.

    #1055374

    joev
    Participant

    If there is a school of 1000 kids, 900 of them happen to be Baptists, and the school happens to be forced to partner with the Baptist church (due to convenience, parent pressure, community connections, etc.,) you don’t think that’s a problem for the other 100 kids? A tacit official endorsement of that majority religion?

    #1055376

    James Ragland
    Participant

    I am not seeing anything that prohibits schools or districts from partnering with several religious entities. If a school or district is made of students who are christian, jewish, islamic, catholic, etc, there is nothing here that says each of those groups and others could not be represented. I see this as an opportunity to use coalitions like the Inter-Faith Alliance or Inter-Denominational groups to get results.

    I agree that morality does not exclusively come from religion. Religious groups do, however present an organized entity that people actually would enjoy seeing partner with schools. There are those who disagree with this, and in my opinion they have a right to do so. Their children do not have to participate in the program. I am not seeing anything that forces all children to participate in the mentorship programs that have a faith based component attached to this (I may be missing that). I am in our schools daily. I am of the mindset that a bit more exposure to those that believe, regardless of faith is something that our kids can benefit from. I know plenty of parents and guardians who feel the same way.

    In a larger discussion, this conversation is something I feel the Democratic Party should be paying attention to. This is another example where there may be a split within the membership of the party along these lines. There are an ample amount of people who are registered Dems who agree with Kasich’s approach on this issue. Education, and how we use local partnerships to improve education within the urban core is an issue I think we Dems have been getting wrong lately. I will be interested in seeing how this plays out in Columbus.

    #1055383

    Alex Silbajoris
    Participant

    I am of the mindset that a bit more exposure to those that believe, regardless of faith is something that our kids can benefit from.

    Isn’t school about curiosity and learning and objectively deciding what’s good and what isn’t, and why?

    Faith isn’t learning, it’s just choosing a belief which may fly in the face of real-world evidence. In some cases faith can be the enemy of learning.

    #1055386
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    I am not seeing anything that prohibits schools or districts from partnering with several religious entities.

    No, but the schools are being prohibited from taking part in this mentorship program if they choose not to partner with a religion entity. Which sends a very bad message and sets a very bad precedent. A religious partnership should not be a requirement for access to funding and mentorship.

    Religious groups do, however present an organized entity that people actually would enjoy seeing partner with schools.

    If people want to see religious partnerships with schools, send your children to a private religious school. Problem solved. No need to force it into public schools.

    I am not seeing anything that forces all children to participate in the mentorship programs that have a faith based component attached to this (I may be missing that).

    Children in schools without a religious partnership will be punished by not having access to mentorship and funding. This very clearly sends a message that religious people are out to punish (or bully) the non believers. Which is fine if you’re at church, or if you’re picketing a solider’s funeral or something. But this type of practice in a public school. No need for “religion shaming” in schools.

    I am of the mindset that a bit more exposure to those that believe, regardless of faith is something that our kids can benefit from. I know plenty of parents and guardians who feel the same way.

    That’s a great story, but that doesn’t mean that your anecdote holds any factual weight or basis. That’s kind of the root of the problem with forcing religion into schools.

    Education, and how we use local partnerships to improve education within the urban core is an issue I think we Dems have been getting wrong lately.

    At least on this, I agree. Local partnerships should be leveraged to improve education. The key is making sure that those partnerships are not with anti-education groups.

    #1055393

    James Ragland
    Participant

    Currently there are several mentorship programs being operated in CCS schools that I know of. Many of them are working, many of them are not. As of now, none of them are Faith based. If parents want it, why not give it a try? I know for sure that is Faith based mentors set up shops in schools and parents do not want them, they will not allow their children to participate. The way this is structured, no one is being forced to participate.

    More people probably would send their kids to private schools if they could afford it. I use Cristo Rey Columbus as a perfect example of this. Our program is designed to accept students who are chronically underserved. We cater to those families who otherwise could not afford to go to a private school. Admissions is based on income, and if you make too much, you cannot come here. The problem is, at capacity, we cannot serve mor than 500 students. That is a drop in the bucket. People are clamoring for school choice. Look at the wait lists for CCS “Alternative” schools. You don’t think that those families who have kids on the wait list would mind if their kid went to DeSales of St. Charles? We have vouchers available, but fewer Private schools will accept them due to the fact that charging extra money to vouchers kids to cover the gap is prohibited. And again, this mentorship opportunity is not being “forced” into school systems. If you don’t want to partner with faith based entities, don’t apply for the funding.

    Those school systems who you feel would be “punished” by this policy don’t have mentorship programs right now? I would doubt that. I don’t see how “religious people” choosing to go into schools where very few of their parishioners or congregants are being educated can be seen as in any way punishing anyone. No one is shaming anybody. This is proven by their willingness to go in the first place.

    I have factual knowledge on parents desire to see more faith in schools coming from a campaign where I spoke with thousands of parents, many of whom asked me directly if I would advocate for “prayer and paddling” returning to CCS. While I am not an advocate of paddling in schools, I do feel like prayer is an area of focus that can continue with the “child-led” component, but should also include an ability for adults to participate as well. No, I have not done a survey on this specifically, but I can tell you from first hand knowledge that many families would not be up in arms if Ohio law changed and allowed for prayer in schools.

    I am not sure what you mean by “anti-education” groups, so I will await for clarity. In the meantime, tell me how you can break down each of my statements and respond. I’ve been on here a while, but I will admit to being a novice on the tech side of how to post things. Thanks for the responses though!

    #1055394

    joev
    Participant

    Currently there are several mentorship programs being operated in CCS schools that I know of. Many of them are working, many of them are not. As of now, none of them are Faith based. If parents want it, why not give it a try? I know for sure that is Faith based mentors set up shops in schools and parents do not want them, they will not allow their children to participate. The way this is structured, no one is being forced to participate.

    If this is what parents want, then they should go directly to the church of their choice. Public schools should not be the middle-man for this sort of program.

    There is a huge difference between not being forced to participate and not being welcome to participate. This is the kind of program that makes it even easier for a dominant religious group to alienate kids – that can’t be the outcome for any public school.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 91 total)

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