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2016 Presidential Race

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics 2016 Presidential Race

This topic contains 307 replies, has 51 voices, and was last updated by rus rus 3 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 271 through 285 (of 308 total)
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  • #1126713
    Snarf
    Snarf
    Participant

    I can’t wait to see how nasty Clinton supporters get when she loses to Trump.

    Will they have the self respect to blame Trump voters or the gull to blame independents who were trying to push a candidate who in polling would actually beat Trump.

    #1126717
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    I can’t wait to see how nasty Clinton supporters get when she loses to Trump.

    Will they have the self respect to blame Trump voters or the gull to blame independents who were trying to push a candidate who in polling would actually beat Trump.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/donald-trump-supporters-bigots-left-demonise

    In the midst of all this, one character sits in a very uneasy position. Unsettled by their popularity, Hillary Clinton has been trying to echo some of Trump’s and Sanders’ pronouncements on trade and jobs. “I won’t support any agreement unless it helps create good jobs and higher wages for American workers,” she says, offering to be the president for “the struggling, the striving and the successful”. Her enemies, by contrast, malign her as someone who enthusiastically supported the trade deal to end all trade deals: the North American Free Trade Agreement of 1994, which the Carrier workers put at the centre of their predicament. In fact, politics being politics, the details of her record matter less than broad-brush appearances. And here, the story for her adversaries is a cinch. The establishment has failed; she is a card-carrying member of that establishment; ergo, she has failed too.

    The whole thing is worth a read, but that stands out.

    #1126821
    Chris Sunami
    Chris Sunami
    Participant

    @rus

    I have to admit, I’m curious what the conservatives on the board think of Trump sealing up the nomination.

    I’m not sure “conservative” is the right way to describe you, rus, but I am curious about your thoughts on Trump (independent of whomever he might face in the general).

    #1126844
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    @rus

    I have to admit, I’m curious what the conservatives on the board think of Trump sealing up the nomination.

    I’m not sure “conservative” is the right way to describe you, rus, but I am curious about your thoughts on Trump (independent of whomever he might face in the general).

    Say what you will about him, but he’s certainly defied conventional expectations. He seems like a populist, nationalist candidate. Lot more first time voters came out to vote for him than I expected.

    On economic issues, Hilary would be the more conservative candidate. If you can believe her as far as what opinions she expresses, that is. Some of Trump’s positions are closer to Sanders’s than you’d think at first glance.

    This election seems to be coming down to whom you dislike more and whom you perceive to dislike you, personally, more. In that context it’s difficult to separate Trump from whom he’ll face in the general.

    Barring some massive surprise, that will be Hilary.

    #1126851
    lazyfish
    lazyfish
    Participant

    nice analysis Rus, it won’t just be a beauty contest; the likely 2-6% margin of victory in the popular vote will devolve into reasoned self interest as 5-15% of establishment/conservatives R’s defects, and any gains in first time voters by Trump will be off set by higher non-white participation for HRC. I believe that will be the end of Trump.

    Snarf, if I was a betting man I’d take Trump to win too, the odds are better, cause that’s a wager that in the end will not find a lot of action.

    #1126856
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    the likely 2-6% margin of victory in the popular vote will devolve into reasoned self interest as 5-15% of establishment/conservatives R’s defects, and any gains in first time voters by Trump will be off set by higher non-white participation for HRC. I believe that will be the end of Trump.

    As to “reasoned self interest”, between him and Hillary I’ll go with Trump. Trump may screw over people like me. Hillary and her lot definitely will.

    I do think Trump can win, given Hilary as a candidate. He’d have lost to Sanders, I think, but that match up is off the table.

    #1126859

    chaking
    Participant

    I keep hearing people say he isn’t like the rest of them or he says what’s on his mind, but I don’t see how that can qualify someone to be president. It’s disheartening he’s even being considered by such a large number of people. His tirades and vengeful remarks should be a big enough red flag to have stopped this by now. Besides that he is wrong about much of what he talks about (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/) and he skirts around substance. I’m not thrilled with Hillary, but Trump is not a reasonable person’s choice.

    #1126860
    DC
    DC
    Participant

    As to “reasoned self interest”, between him and Hillary I’ll go with Trump. Trump may screw over people like me. Hillary and her lot definitely will.

    I do think Trump can win, given Hilary as a candidate. He’d have lost to Sanders, I think, but that match up is off the table.

    So the reasonable question to ask might be “who should/will not be screwed over by Trump or Clinton?” The perception of presidential politics these days is either “how many people will be screwed over by this candidate?” and/or “am I one of them?”

    State Sponsored Capitalism is cannibalizing itself and we are trying to pick the best buffer between ourselves and its inevitable implosion. People have dramatically different views of who that might be. Unfortunately, Clinton represents the worst of establishment politics, neo-liberalism, and US imperialism. She is a smack in the face to working Americans. Trump is a cultural and social fart in the ass crack of White America. He serves the Republicans just right for their years of veiled bigotry, spread under the guise of supposed values and patriotism. Against this backdrop, we also see why Sanders’ rhetoric is so popular.

    At least we are at a point where people might legitimately ask these questions, though this means that things have gotten pretty bad with the status quo, the cultural milieu of US society, the lack of awareness of imperialist foreign policy, and the 2 party establishment.

    #1126913
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    @rus

    I have to admit, I’m curious what the conservatives on the board think of Trump sealing up the nomination.

    I’m not sure “conservative” is the right way to describe you, rus, but I am curious about your thoughts on Trump (independent of whomever he might face in the general).

    @rus

    I have to admit, I’m curious what the conservatives on the board think of Trump sealing up the nomination.

    I’m not sure “conservative” is the right way to describe you, rus, but I am curious about your thoughts on Trump (independent of whomever he might face in the general).

    In the spirit of your question, what do you think of Hilary independent of what you might think about Trump?

    #1126959
    Snarf
    Snarf
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Chris Sunami wrote:</div>
    @rus

    I have to admit, I’m curious what the conservatives on the board think of Trump sealing up the nomination.

    I’m not sure “conservative” is the right way to describe you, rus, but I am curious about your thoughts on Trump (independent of whomever he might face in the general).

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Chris Sunami wrote:</div>
    @rus

    I have to admit, I’m curious what the conservatives on the board think of Trump sealing up the nomination.

    I’m not sure “conservative” is the right way to describe you, rus, but I am curious about your thoughts on Trump (independent of whomever he might face in the general).

    In the spirit of your question, what do you think of Hilary independent of what you might think about Trump?

    Right. Most of what I hear about Hillary is who she isn’t, as if that’s any kind of qualification.

    I’m not Donald Trump, vote for me! Ps it’s my turn and I’ve already paid for the presidency!

    #1126961
    Snarf
    Snarf
    Participant

    “Vote blue no matter who” is fucking bullshit.

    #1126994
    lazyfish
    lazyfish
    Participant

    “Vote blue no matter who” is fucking bullshit.

    or a clear understanding of the fundamental differences between the Parties. I like Sanders and the strong distinction he draws with the R’s, but Hillary will end up being whay better than Bill. I thought her time as Sec. of State, first lady and briefly the Senate were good and better than her husbands policy. Hillary will end up Clinton 2 without the dumbass sex scandal. Her history of caring about women and children and all that means in a modern capitalist state is more promising for the 75-90% of us who live outside of the highest tax bracket.

    #1127076
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Right. Most of what I hear about Hillary is who she isn’t, as if that’s any kind of qualification.

    I’m not Donald Trump, vote for me! Ps it’s my turn and I’ve already paid for the presidency!

    Exactly. Trump is unelectable because he holds $100,000 per plate fundraising dinners.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/05/13/hillary-clinton-hosts-100000-a-head-fundraisers/

    Wait. No, that was Hillary.

    Then Trump supports rapists.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/20/exclusive-hillary-clinton-took-me-through-hell-rape-victim-says.html

    Oh, sorry. Hillary again.

    Trump fights against the common man! You can’t like him he’s for the richies!

    … right.

    #1127086
    Ned23
    Ned23
    Participant

    I’ll vote for Bernie if he’s the nominee, otherwise, back to the Green Party. I won’t support any candidate that’s not serious about getting corporate money out of politics because all we’re doing is kicking the can down the road.

    #1127118
    Chris Sunami
    Chris Sunami
    Participant

    In the spirit of your question, what do you think of Hilary independent of what you might think about Trump?

    I don’t find her personally appealing, but she strikes me as very competent, which is one of the core qualities you want in a chief executive (for me, that was one of the main lessons of the “W” debacle). She’s not a “good candidate,” but I have every expectation she would do a good job as president. She’s a hard worker with a wealth of relevant experience.

    My sympathies are more with Sanders, morally, and policy-wise but I’m not as convinced he could govern effectively. With that said, I’m actually registered as a Green right now –they are the only ones who are actually anti-war, anti-gun, and willing to make the environment the top priority. However –given Trump –the chances of me voting in the general for anyone except whichever candidate secures the Democratic nomination are pretty much nil.

    As far as Trump, his willingness to traffic in poisonous rhetoric for short-term popularity gives me no confidence that he’s either competent to lead or has the best interests of the country at heart. I feel he’s already harmed the nation just by his candidacy, let alone if he should win. The likelihood that he doesn’t believe the nonsense he spouts makes it all that much worse, in my opinion.

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