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Jeffrey Park - News & Updates

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Development Jeffrey Park – News & Updates

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  • #94871

    News
    Participant

    Jeffrey Park Will Add Over 1300 New Residences to Italian Village

    Published on December 3, 2012 10:00 am

    By: Walker

    Enter: Jeffrey Park, a massive new urban development planned for the 41 acre site once home to The Jeffrey Manufacturing Company. Wagenbrenner Development has made plans to build out 1,350 residential units in a mix of apartment buildings for rent and townhomes for sale.

    READ MORE: https://www.columbusunderground.com/jeffrey-park-will-add-over-1300-new-residences-to-italian-village

    #522206

    geoyui
    Participant

    can we just move these buildings next to the Columbus Commons?

    #522207
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    geoyui said:
    can we just move these buildings next to the Columbus Commons?

    How about we just connect them with a Streetcar? ;)

    #522208
    Josh Lapp
    Josh Lapp
    Participant

    Walker said:
    How about we just connect them with a Streetcar? ;)

    I’ll even take the gondola. I have had at least 5 dreams in the last month or two of riding a train in Columbus. I keep waking up disappointed but I know one morning I will wake up and it will be announced on the front page of CU!

    #522209

    mrsgeedeck
    Participant

    Walker said:
    How about we just connect them with a Streetcar? ;)

    I’ve always been an advocate of putting a streetcar on 4th or Summit. That’d be perfect for my commute!

    #522210
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Can someone check my math here just to make sure I’m not overlooking something…

    1,350 new residential units X 1.5 people per unit (mix of 1 & 2 br units) = 2,025 people

    2,025 people in 41 acres equates to a population density of 31,609 people per square mile (640 acres).

    That level of density sounds insanely high. If Jeffery Park were its own city, that would make it the 4th densest in the US:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

    Probably not really apples to apples to measure an individual development against any entire city. But just thought it was an interesting stat worth noting. ;)

    #522211

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    Walker said:
    Can someone check my math here just to make sure I’m not overlooking something…

    1,350 new residential units X 1.5 people per unit (mix of 1 & 2 br units) = 2,025 people

    2,025 people in 41 acres equates to a population density of 31,609 people per square mile (640 acres).

    That level of density sounds insanely high. If Jeffery Park were its own city, that would make it the 4th densest in the US:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

    Probably not really apples to apples to measure an individual development against any entire city. But just thought it was an interesting stat worth noting. ;)

    It’s fantastic density,and it makes that Westerville development recently announced look even more terrible.

    #522212

    InnerCore
    Participant

    You’re math is correct but as you pointed out the thought process is a little off. It would be hard to have an entire city with nothing but wall to wall residential development. For example I live in 50 story condo building that has about 400 units on about an acre of land. If we use the same 1.5 people per unit ratio that comes out to 600 people per acre or 384,000 people per square mile. But the density of the area is only about 37,000 people per square mile. And keep in mind its ALL 50 story buildings. But the non residential buildings with a density of 0 people per square mile take the average down fast.

    Heck even single family homes on a 5000 sf lot would come out to be a density of almost 6,000 per square mile alone.

    Once you average this development, with the single family lots and all the non residential areas you’ll be well under 10,000 people per square mile.

    #522213

    InnerCore
    Participant

    Ok so here are my criticism of this proposal. I think 1,350 units on 40 acres is great residential density. The problem is that the area is completely void of anything else. This is an extremely well located piece of properties. Most cities would give an arm and a leg to have 40 acres of land just out side of downtown.

    For comparison here is a proposal that some of my friend worked on for a 33 acre piece of land that is much further from downtown than the Jeffrey Park site:

    http://www.uli.org/wp-content/uploads/ULI-Documents/Team-2074-UMD-Pilot-Point_Final.pdf

    There are a mix of 1,3,5 and 10 story buildings. However given that the Jeffrey park site is about 8 acres large something similar could be done without going over 5 stories which I think would be appropriate given the location.

    Now on this site they were able to get 1,380 residential units both rental and for sale and even some town homes. So as far as residential they are about even. But this proposal also offers:

    1)Live/Work units. This is where you have adaptable spaces where residential and retail/office space is connected. Imaging if you wanted to live and own a business in the Short North and you looking to buy a home for $200k and then rent a retail or office space that would also cost $200k. This would allow you to possible purchase a space that has both for $350k. So you end up with a slightly higher mortgage but you don’t have to worry about the cost of leasing a separate space. This is great for small business owners because most people can more easily qualify for a personal mortgage for a home then they can for a commercial space for a business especially a newer business.

    2) Park Space. The increased density allowed for a total of over 250,000 square feet of park space throughout 7 separate park spaces. They also included a greenway path. So for example image when future neighbors are built to the north and east they would be able to walk/bike towards high street along a park/path system.

    3)Retail/Commercial. A variety of retail and commercial spaces. For instance you have big box like a Lowes all the way down to small mom and pop shops.

    They also have what’s called affordable retail. This is where the developer partners with the city who gives tax breaks or provides bond financing in exchange the developer keeps a percentage of the retail units low for local small and minority business owners. This allows the developers to bring in national brands that pay higher rent but also the area to keep the local business owners that really make a place special and preserve the feeling of the neighborhood.

    4)Communit/Cultural center. Adaptable community space that can address the needs of the local community.

    Working in development I know our goal isn’t always to produce what is best for the city. Developers are usually looking for the safest way to get a return on their project, and rightfully so. However it is incumbent upon the community to demand that what is built is in their best interest as well.

    Right now Wagenbrenner’s focus is on building homes on fee simple lots because they are worried that in the current climate getting financing for a condo is harder than for single family home. So this is essentially a numbers game. “Let’s build what is easiest to sell”. And sometimes building something can be better than building nothing. And I understand that it’s hard to do retail in the area right now. But this isn’t very forward looking. When it does get easier to build retail you’re not going to be able to come back and add it a site that you built out with fee simple lots that you’ve sold.

    Remember this site is 40 acres. So you going to have to walk out of your 40 acre site before you even begin to get close to anything. And then think about the neighborhoods that get built around it. Now those sites are pretty much in the middle of nowhere instead of letting the growth organically grow toward them.

    Here are some pictures from a neighborhood I lived in just outside of DC and not one single building is over 5 stories:


    This is an apartment complex that had an interior courtyard lined with retail. I was hoping for something like this at Columbus Commons.


    Here is the same places filled with people during a community event.


    This building is office but could just as easily be residential.


    This shows the parking that is primarily in the center wrapped by other uses, similar to Arena District.

    A lot of wide sidewalks. When you build places with wide sidewalks it makes it great for restaurants because they can lease a smaller space but yet sit a lot of extra people for free outside in the great weather during the summer time when they are the busiest.

    #522214
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    InnerCore said:
    The problem is that the area is completely void of anything else. This is an extremely well located piece of properties.

    While having a mix of retail and residential on site sounds better that what is being proposed, this site is only an 8-15 minute walk from High Street:

    http://goo.gl/maps/Yld2M

    If the demand for neighborhood retail increases, there are properties along 4th Street where it can be built in.

    If larger scale retail projects become more viable in the long term, there’s plenty of room nearby in Downtown as well, which arguably would be a better fit for retailers with quick access to residential neighborhoods in all directions.

    #522215
    Jason Powell
    Jason Powell
    Participant

    I agree that the project should include retail, however not at the levels mentioned by InnerCore. What makes 3rd Ave in Vic Village/Harrison West a great street is the scattored retail along the street, frequented by what I’m guessing is predominately nearby residents. The same goes for German Village. It is a nice surprise and a sought after amenity, particularly for younger generations seeking coffee shops, restaurants and whatnot within a close walking distance. Some of these businesses were planned and existed pre WWII when retail within walking distance was the expected. If the Jeffrey site is built out with no consideration given to new or future retail space I think it would be a missed opportunity for the enhanced character of the neighborhood. Like Innercore said, it will much harder to incorporate retail down the road. I do agree and predict that the increased residential base will affect future viablilty of retail on 4th. However, it still would be nice to have the random “neighborhood” coffee shop or deli within the Jeffre Park “neighborhood” – a place the Jeffrey Park residents can call their own.

    I also would like to see the neighborhood take on a more mixed use feel, including offices, medical and perhaps a future hotel, all on the southern edge near the highway. Anything that promotes multiple activities without the need for a vehicle should be promoted with what little vacant land we have left.

    #522216
    Josh Lapp
    Josh Lapp
    Participant

    jpizzow said:
    I agree that the project should include retail, however not at the levels mentioned by InnerCore. What makes 3rd Ave in Vic Village/Harrison West a great street is the scattored retail along the street, frequented by what I’m guessing is predominately nearby residents. The same goes for German Village. It is a nice surprise and a sought after amenity, particularly for younger generations seeking coffee shops, restaurants and whatnot within a close walking distance. Some of these businesses were planned and existed pre WWII when retail within walking distance was the expected. If the Jeffrey site is built out with no consideration given to new or future retail space I think it would be a missed opportunity for the enhanced character of the neighborhood. Like Innercore said, it will much harder to incorporate retail down the road. I do agree and predict that the increased residential base will affect future viablilty of retail on 4th. However, it still would be nice to have the random “neighborhood” coffee shop or deli within the Jeffre Park “neighborhood” – a place the Jeffrey Park residents can call their own.

    I also would like to see the neighborhood take on a more mixed use feel, including offices, medical and perhaps a future hotel, all on the southern edge near the highway. Anything that promotes multiple activities without the need for a vehicle should be promoted with what little vacant land we have left.

    Just because the initial plans call for no retail or other mixed uses doesn’t mean that they won’t happen on the site. Much like Neighborhood Launch, Grandview Yard, Arena District ect. the developers will adapt to the market conditions. Apartments weren’t in the plan for NL but now 260 are expected in the next year or so. If Wagenbrenner builds 200 units in a year and sees that the demand for Office Space and Retail picks up in the area the plan may change. The plan looked to me like a lot was still sketched in pencil.

    #522217

    mrsgeedeck
    Participant

    I think the neighborhood (most really) needs a true bodega. Kroger and Giant Eagle are close enough for shopping trips, and freeway access out to big box stores is readily available, but sometimes you just wish you could run into the corner store real quick grab your generic aspirin and get out. Perhaps we can see some redevelopment of the S&K or Saveway sites…

    #522218

    mrpoppinzs
    Member

    mrsgeedeck said:
    Perhaps we can see some redevelopment of the S&K or Saveway sites…

    +1

    #522219

    InnerCore
    Participant

    Walker said:
    While having a mix of retail and residential on site sounds better that what is being proposed, this site is only an 8-15 minute walk from High Street:

    http://goo.gl/maps/Yld2M

    If the demand for neighborhood retail increases, there are properties along 4th Street where it can be built in.

    If larger scale retail projects become more viable in the long term, there’s plenty of room nearby in Downtown as well, which arguably would be a better fit for retailers with quick access to residential neighborhoods in all directions.

    The problem is that is poor city planning in the long run. You’re essentially saying you want the retail/commercial to be stretched out along the main thoroughfares like 4th or Summit with everything filled in between with residential. This is basically the failed model that we built our suburbs around.

    Those retailer now have to draw from residents living farther away and get less synergy from other retailers who are pushed farther away. So if we use the other proposal as a guideline we would be looking at 700,000 sf of retail on this 40 acre site. For a comparable amount of retail you would have to run retail along 4th street all the way up to Weinland park. So basically all the way to 5th and then west on 5th over to high.

    Now the first problem is that doing it that way you would be able to provide and big box retail. Many of these retailers are adapting and building “market” stores within the urban fabric. But the main problem is that retail is spread out and everything around it is less dense, therefore it has to draw customers from father away. So while the guy living in Weinland park might be close to 4th street and 5th ave, he’s now to far from the shop across the street from Jeffrey Park.

    Look at it this way, retail is filling in along high street but it hasn’t reached it’s tipping point yet. Now imagine if you took all the establishments along high street from the cap all the way up to Kroger. And instead of having all that retail spread out in a straight line it went from the cap up to Buttles and then up and down all the side streets like Russel, pearl, Brickel, Lincoln, etc.

    So then when anyone comes to the Short North, they’re essential within 10 minutes of everything! Now the walkby traffic for every single retailer skyrockets.

    In most North east cities it’s easy to go back into neighborhoods and create this by simply making the ground floor retail. However in the Short North this isn’t possible because the building structures wont allow it.

    However since Jeffrey park is now vacant we have the ability to go in and build the correct bones. This is why many cities are going to form based building codes. If you build a building that can adapt they your ready for any circumstance.

    We should be building 3 to 5 story structures with wide sidewalks, where the ground floor is adaptable. If residential is what’s needed then you put a patch a grass and door and you have a direct access ground floor unit. Then 10 years later if you need retail then you simply gut the first floor, blowout the street level wall and replace them with storefront. This way you create long lasting communities within good urban fabric that can easily adapt to the needs of the community. Let’s suppose there is an extreme need for retail 20 years in the future. At that point the only way to add it would be to come in and tear down some of the residential structures. They people are going to he yelling about destroying the history of the neighborhood.

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