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Common Core in Ohio

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Everyday Chit Chat Common Core in Ohio

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 25 total)
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  • #1035724

    El Diablo Einstein
    Participant

    In what could reignite a controversy that raged about eight years ago, a bill to repeal Common Core education standards in Ohio would allow intelligent design and creationism to be taught alongside evolution in science classes.

    House Bill 597 says new state science standards must “prohibit political or religious interpretation of scientific facts in favor of another.”

    Rep. Andy Thompson, R-Marietta, a main bill sponsor, said the goal is not to mandate what must be taught but provide options for districts.

    “In many districts, they may have a different perspective on that, and we want to provide them the flexibility to consider all perspectives, not just on matters of faith or how the Earth came into existence, but also global warming and other topics that are controversial,” Thompson said.

    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/08/20/intelligent-design-rises-again.html

    Intelligent design and creationism is for morons. They have absolutely no business in our schools. Yes, lets make our children idiots when it comes to facts. I dont care that much for common core but I do care for common sense. Any legislator calling for this crap should be unceremoniously ushered out of office for being an idiot.

    #1035741

    gramarye
    Participant

    I’d still rather see Common Core excised from our schools now and then move on to deal with the other baggage slipped into the bill by conservatives, particularly when it’s as lukewarm (and honestly, apparently poorly written) as that provision is.

    #1035764

    That article is on two threads now. I question the motivation: Common Core (CC) does NOT preclude discussions regarding Intelligent Design. The article implies that Common Core somehow bans Intelligent Design from the classroom: bull.

    I don’t mind the CC language arts overhaul: I’m not a big fiction fan, so its emphasis on non-fiction is delish. The math curriculum has been an unmitigated mess in implementation, and regardless whether CC requires more testing, it has resulted in more testing.

    Lots of things are nice in theory, but awful in practice. CC has been one of those things.

    I’ve never seen a CC cynic argue, “Jesus hates Common Core.” I’d bet lunch that the particular provision was *pork* to get a few extra votes. Representing it as anything other than pork was irresponsible reporting.

    #1035845
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    I don’t mind the CC language arts overhaul: I’m not a big fiction fan, so its emphasis on non-fiction is delish. The math curriculum has been an unmitigated mess in implementation, and regardless whether CC requires more testing, it has resulted in more testing.

    This is exactly how I feel about it. I even like the idea behind the math changes, but the processes seem completely convoluted.

    I’ve never seen a CC cynic argue, “Jesus hates Common Core.”

    As I’ve been on a few Dispatch FB threads reading comments…you’d be surprised.

    Here’s some examples:

    “KILL COMMON CORE. Let states choose their own standards and STOP REVISIONIST HISTORY and PROPAGANDA.”

    “Many subjects are infused with leftist propaganda”

    “The common core crap needs to be dumped. Short-term disruption vs. long-term irreparable damage at the hand of Obama’s brainwashing crap is a small price to pay!”

    Its pretty scary stuff and that’s just local. National level, there’s a ton of blogs reporting that its atheistic indoctrination and anti-god.

    #1035858

    Dispatch comments invariably make me want to stab my eyes out. I’m officially blaming the writers for bringing that rabble to the table.

    But your point is taken, you’ve seen stuff on the National scene (too) that I haven’t.

    I was watching the Ohio Repeal Common Core group (1,500 members) and didn’t spot any religious stuff. And there’s an Ed Week report that says support is declining. I suspect that’s because the more CC fails in actual practice, the harder it is to cheer.

    http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/curriculum/2014/08/education_next_poll_shows_comm.html?r=739871300&preview=1

    #1035872
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    #1035903

    ow

    #1035904

    joev
    Participant

    Can someone lay out the rational opposition to Common Core? Why is it so bad? I like the idea of a higher standard, from what I’ve read, Common Core testing could replace other testing rather than add to it, and it would ensure that most of the nation’s children are taught critical thinking rather than rote memorization.

    #1035910

    For me (as a parent) the problem came in math. It appears that the curriculum designers don’t actually know how to write math problems that require “critical thinking”. So, children bring home the weird math assignments posted on the internet. Or, in my personal case:

    1) We ordered a pizza for lunch. John ate 23/20 of it. Mary had 3/4. Greg had 82/100. How much pizza was consumed?

    (Problem: in logic, this would be an impossibility, because “a pizza” is singular=1 . . . that is not the desired answer)

    or

    2) Mrs. Jones has a bag of 100 marbles. She has 7 kids and wants to give at least one marble to each child. How many ways can she do this? (question is for a fourth grader)

    People who don’t understand human reasoning, shouldn’t be designing “critical thinking” math curriculums.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/05/02/comedian_louis_ck_rails_against_common_core_on_letterman.html

    #1035912

    joev
    Participant

    Does it just sound funny to us because we learned the concepts differently, or is it actually bad teaching theory?

    And is it worth scrapping the whole system over this?

    #1035913
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    Yeah, the “show your work” sections of math are pretty bizarre. I get the idea, its to not just have students memorize that 2+2=4…but to understand why 2+2=4. Problem is, in practice, it kind of sucks.

    I’m with MBA though, I like the idea of making the English side of things more about critical thinking and less about opinion. Writing a book report that explains the significance of a book and supporting it with other texts is vastly superior to writing a book report of why you feel the book was neat, IMO.

    #1035914

    Keep the language arts stuff, kill the math.

    It’s completely demoralizing for kids to think they should know the answers to impossible, ridiculous questions.

    #1035918

    joev
    Participant

    The thing that scares me about dropping Common Core now is that the Ohio legislature is so anti-intelligence. And the state school board has been packed with charter school, home school and creationist types. This seems like Ohio’s best chance to get to a better place without the negative interference of our state powers.

    #1035919

    myliftkk
    Participant

    The math stuff sounds more akin to applied math, which isn’t at all a bad thing, provided you can write the problem sets well.

    Problem #1 is a failure at multiple levels.

    a. The first failure is the singular description.
    b. The second failure is the fact that since it’s physically impossible to eat more pizza than was ordered, the ratios don’t make any sense, since combined, they add up to more than 100% of the pizza, unless the ratios apply to a single pizza pie, which again, is a textual failure.

    Problem #2 is simply way too advanced for fourth grade, unless they dropped algebra and higher mathematics to that grade level.

    Despite all this though, the real world problem is that vast majorities of people have no idea how to apply mathematics they learned in school to actually solve real problems they’re faced with every day. I understand where CC is trying to chip away at that, and if you write the correct problem sets, you should be able to. Obviously the idiots they’ve got writing the problems can’t.

    Problem #1 should have been written as follows:

    1) We ordered some pizza pies for lunch. John ate 23/20 worth of a pie. Mary had 3/4 worth of a pie. Greg had 82/100 worth of a pie. How much of the total pizza pies combined, was eaten?

    #1036009

    gramarye
    Participant

    I’m with MBA though, I like the idea of making the English side of things more about critical thinking and less about opinion. Writing a book report that explains the significance of a book and supporting it with other texts is vastly superior to writing a book report of why you feel the book was neat, IMO.

    I agree with this statement, but I’m not sure if you can jump from that to Common Core being a way to that endpoint.

    On a related note, I could potentially eventually make peace with a shift away from fiction towards more nonfiction (I profited immensely from a fiction-heavy curriculum, but I concede that others might not have), but once again, I don’t draw a line between that and the desirability of national standards.

    And the charter/voucher/home/other non-traditional-government-run school issue is almost completely separate from this. In the Venn diagram, most people who support charter schools and other school choice options will also be Common Core critics, but “Common Core critics” is a much larger circle and encompasses many who otherwise still defend at least the concept (and, in large part, the implementation) of government-run schools.

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