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Has America 'Jumped the Shark'? - Primaries 2016

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics Has America 'Jumped the Shark'? – Primaries 2016

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 127 total)
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  • #1116927
    spfld_expat
    spfld_expat
    Participant

    You know I honestly don’t think Trump is a racist at all. I think he’s perfectly willing to lie to the KKK to sucker their votes and then tell them to jump in a lake once he’s elected. He’s a classic capitalist. I *am* less sure about his Islamophobia, tho.

    You think he’s not racist – based on what? Fred Trump was certainly a racist slumlord. The Trump Organization was sued by the DOJ for housing discrimination in the 70s when Donald was working for the company.

    When has Donald ever done anything to indicate he’s *not* racist? Because his actions and statements over the years signal the opposite.

    Andrew Ti puts it well:

    People write to me all the time telling me that X or Y question on here is just me being taken in by a “troll,” someone who’s just saying racist stuff to get a reaction, but who “doesn’t really believe it.” I think that’s a major component in what’s wrong with a lot of racists and people who enable them: they think that there’s some kind of magical need for intent to be part of the equation, that one can’t simply be judged on your actions, or the effects of your speech.

    Whether or not Trump “believes” what he’s saying, he’s empowering racists with his speech, who now believe they have a voice and a place in this country. And this gives them the courage and the community to perpetrate their racist acts (just look how they acted only yesterday).

    Moreover, think about how racist you have to be to believe that using racist rhetoric to appeal to racists is OK, like you can play with racism because it’s just another tactic. Racism is a threat, to groups of people, and to simply think that you can make this threat, hurt people, and benefit from it, and that that requires some kind of intent or active malice in your heart makes you a fucking awful person. They seem to think “I just don’t give a shit about my racist actions” is some kind of defense.

    If you’re some idiot who thinks that Trump is just using the odious tool of racism to get votes, what about him makes you think that even if he doesn’t “believe” in it, he’ll act anything other than exactly as he’s been campaigning (relative weakness of the Presidency in our system aside). You think he’s not going to govern as a fucking racist, sexist bigot? Why wouldn’t he?

    The additional irony in this case is that the racists who love Trump always list the fact that he “speaks his mind” as one of the reasons they support him.

    http://yoisthisracist.com/post/140357431773/yo-saw-a-good-one-today-a-trump-supporter

    #1116935

    thomaspickles
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Posole wrote:</div>
    You know I honestly don’t think Trump is a racist at all. I think he’s perfectly willing to lie to the KKK to sucker their votes and then tell them to jump in a lake once he’s elected. He’s a classic capitalist. I *am* less sure about his Islamophobia, tho.

    You think he’s not racist – based on what? Fred Trump was certainly a racist slumlord. The Trump Organization was sued by the DOJ for housing discrimination in the 70s when Donald was working for the company.

    When has Donald ever done anything to indicate he’s *not* racist? Because his actions and statements over the years signal the opposite.

    Andrew Ti puts it well:

    People write to me all the time telling me that X or Y question on here is just me being taken in by a “troll,” someone who’s just saying racist stuff to get a reaction, but who “doesn’t really believe it.” I think that’s a major component in what’s wrong with a lot of racists and people who enable them: they think that there’s some kind of magical need for intent to be part of the equation, that one can’t simply be judged on your actions, or the effects of your speech.

    Whether or not Trump “believes” what he’s saying, he’s empowering racists with his speech, who now believe they have a voice and a place in this country. And this gives them the courage and the community to perpetrate their racist acts (just look how they acted only yesterday).

    Moreover, think about how racist you have to be to believe that using racist rhetoric to appeal to racists is OK, like you can play with racism because it’s just another tactic. Racism is a threat, to groups of people, and to simply think that you can make this threat, hurt people, and benefit from it, and that that requires some kind of intent or active malice in your heart makes you a fucking awful person. They seem to think “I just don’t give a shit about my racist actions” is some kind of defense.

    If you’re some idiot who thinks that Trump is just using the odious tool of racism to get votes, what about him makes you think that even if he doesn’t “believe” in it, he’ll act anything other than exactly as he’s been campaigning (relative weakness of the Presidency in our system aside). You think he’s not going to govern as a fucking racist, sexist bigot? Why wouldn’t he?

    The additional irony in this case is that the racists who love Trump always list the fact that he “speaks his mind” as one of the reasons they support him.

    http://yoisthisracist.com/post/140357431773/yo-saw-a-good-one-today-a-trump-supporter

    It’s funny I’m supporting Trump so much, but I hate mindless race baiting. There’s no evidence of Trump ever being racist, but for whatever reason, this media soundbite will continue into November. Sad.

    #1116943

    RedStorm
    Participant

    While it is everyone’s right to vote for whomever they think is best, including going 3rd party, it is always disheartening and frustrating to see people do this when every single election is so important to the nation’s future. This one in particular may be the most important in decades, especially with the Supreme Court vacancy (and potentially more coming in the next administration). Voting 3rd party to basically feel all smugly satisfied that you’re totally anti-establishment is playing Russian roulette with everyone’s future, both inside and outside of America’s borders. Yes, picking the lesser of two evils may not be as glamorous and you may not be able to brag about how much of a rebel you are to your friends on Facebook, but sometimes you just have to hold your nose and do what’s responsible.

    So you’re telling me to not vote for who I think the best candidate is? Thought every vote mattered?

    #1116951
    spfld_expat
    spfld_expat
    Participant

    It’s funny I’m supporting Trump so much, but I hate mindless race baiting. There’s no evidence of Trump ever being racist, but for whatever reason, this media soundbite will continue into November. Sad.

    Christ. +1 for mastering Trump-tweet style, though.

    #1116964
    Ned23
    Ned23
    Participant

    Trump has been socially liberal most of his life. I’m inclined to go with the ‘dog and pony show’ theory but also note that no foreign power is likely to trust him on any negotiations. That is a problem.

    #1116977

    OneBagTravel
    Participant

    There are so many stories about how citizens are disenfranchised with the current way presidential candidates run things and are going to Trump for actual change. I’m not advocating for Trump but people have to take a step back and look at what he’s doing differently than your status quo presidential candidate we’re all so used to.

    I’m not blind as to why people would vote for Trump. and no it’s not your huffington post headlines like “HE’S RACIST” and “HE WANTS TO BUILD A WALL”. He’s just playing a slightly different game than we’re used to and people are apparently digging that. Saying America has jumped the shark is lazy. America is just sick of the same old song.

    It’s sad that things had to get this way just to stir up the pot. I can’t blame people for voting for Trump, our shitty two party system is to blame for it in my opinion.

    You know I honestly don’t think Trump is a racist at all. I think he’s perfectly willing to lie to the KKK to sucker their votes and then tell them to jump in a lake once he’s elected. He’s a classic capitalist. I *am* less sure about his Islamophobia, tho.

    Absolutely this. He’s playing the political game so well. He’s more liberal than most Dem candidates if you review any of his pre election interviews.

    #1116980
    ntn
    ntn
    Participant

    Are things really that bad in America?

    #1117003

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Chris Sunami wrote:</div>
    Do either of these two facts bother you?

    1) He’s endorsed by the KKK, an endorsement that he’s barely repudiated if at all…

    You know I honestly don’t think Trump is a racist at all. I think he’s perfectly willing to lie to the KKK to sucker their votes and then tell them to jump in a lake once he’s elected. He’s a classic capitalist. I *am* less sure about his Islamophobia, tho.

    Let’s say that, given that Trump is on record literally disagreeing with almost everything he has said in the campaign, that he doesn’t believe any of the extreme positions he has as a candidate. How does that make him a good candidate, exactly? Wouldn’t that just make him a pathological liar at best? Someone who will do and say anything, no matter the consequences, so long as he gets the win? Which version of Trump is the real one? Which one would be president should he win? Like Hillary or not, she is the enemy that we know, and nothing in her record is nearly as dangerous as one of the versions of a man Trump has given us of himself. Why should anyone be willing to take such a monumental risk like that for the highest office in the world? It makes no sense no matter how you look at it.

    #1117004

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    While it is everyone’s right to vote for whomever they think is best, including going 3rd party, it is always disheartening and frustrating to see people do this when every single election is so important to the nation’s future. This one in particular may be the most important in decades, especially with the Supreme Court vacancy (and potentially more coming in the next administration). Voting 3rd party to basically feel all smugly satisfied that you’re totally anti-establishment is playing Russian roulette with everyone’s future, both inside and outside of America’s borders. Yes, picking the lesser of two evils may not be as glamorous and you may not be able to brag about how much of a rebel you are to your friends on Facebook, but sometimes you just have to hold your nose and do what’s responsible.

    So you’re telling me to not vote for who I think the best candidate is? Thought every vote mattered?

    I think a lot of people would love a viable 3rd party, but without one, the 2-party system is just what we have right now. Your moral vote won’t get your 3rd party or indepedent candidate elected. It won’t destroy the system. It will do nothing to counter the absolute certainty that either a Democrat or Republican wins. So the only honest question here is which of those candidates is less terrible. By all means, vote for your favorite person, but don’t act like you are doing the country any favors by ignoring the reality of how the US political system is set up.

    #1117007

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    Trump has been socially liberal most of his life. I’m inclined to go with the ‘dog and pony show’ theory but also note that no foreign power is likely to trust him on any negotiations. That is a problem.

    Not really. He has been socially liberal when it was convenient for him. Was he socially liberal leading the Obama birther movement in 2008?

    #1117011

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    Are things really that bad in America?

    Considering the state of the rest of the world, absolutely not. There are real problems and things could always be better, but it is a little strange how people fight against the “status quo” as if they are living in a 3rd world dictatorship with 80% unemployment. Americans, sad to say, often have little self-awareness of how good they really have it.

    #1117036
    Chris Sunami
    Chris Sunami
    Participant

    There’s not a big practical difference between being personally racist and being willing to exploit racism for gain –except that someone who is genuinely racist can have a change of heart.

    Most of the worst race-based actions in this country were based first on the potential of economic or political gain, and only subsequently justified though the embrace of a racist ideology. The entire institution of American slavery developed out of a race-neutral indentured servitude due to the fact of it being considerably easier to identify runaway black servants than runaway white ones. The elaborate mythos of black inferiority developed later, to make people feel justified in their race-based crimes.

    It doesn’t matter to me whether Trump is personally racist. What matters is that he’s demonstrably willing –one might even say, eager –to inflame and exploit racial, nationalist and sectarian tensions for personal benefit, regardless of the costs to the country. That’s not just my opinion –it’s the opinion of many (including any number of solid conservative Republicans!).

    #1117042

    thomaspickles
    Participant

    There’s not a big practical difference between being personally racist and being willing to exploit racism for gain –except that someone who is genuinely racist can have a change of heart.

    Most of the worst race-based actions in this country were based first on the potential of economic or political gain, and only subsequently justified though the embrace of a racist ideology. The entire institution of American slavery developed out of a race-neutral indentured servitude due to the fact of it being considerably easier to identify runaway black servants than runaway white ones. The elaborate mythos of black inferiority developed later, to make people feel justified in their race-based crimes.

    It doesn’t matter to me whether Trump is personally racist. What matters is that he’s demonstrably willing –one might even say, eager –to inflame and exploit racial, nationalist and sectarian tensions for personal benefit, regardless of the costs to the country. That’s not just my opinion –it’s the opinion of many (including any number of solid conservative Republicans!).

    What the hell are you talking about lol …I feel like Hillary has been doing that same thing with Black Lives Matter, telling blacks that they are being exploited, etc. She is absolutely first hand exploiting racial tensions for personal gain, whereas Trump you’re reading between the lines or saying that enforcing immigration policy is racist.

    #1117043

    OneBagTravel
    Participant

    Let’s say that, given that Trump is on record literally disagreeing with almost everything he has said in the campaign, that he doesn’t believe any of the extreme positions he has as a candidate. How does that make him a good candidate, exactly? Wouldn’t that just make him a pathological liar at best?

    Are you now just discovering that politicians lie to get votes? Why single out Trump when it’s the name of the game since democracy was founded.

    #1117050

    dubdave00
    Participant

    I’m just over the US political dialogue as a whole.

    People on both sides of the aisle seem to be too focused on either
    A) Projecting a dystopian future based on an over-simplified problem.
    B) Projecting a utopian future based on an over-simplified solution.

    Sidenote: This is still accurate as Donald Trump will both create the Bear Patrol and “make the bears pay the bear tax”:

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 127 total)

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