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Gunshots Fired Outside US Capitol Building

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Gunshots Fired Outside US Capitol Building

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  • #552765
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Twixlen said:
    The problem is that there isn’t anything anyone can do to help. Unless the family is very wealthy and they are willing to face the problem of mental illness in their family member head on, the ill person is left to flounder in a world that shuns them & denigrates them. Unless someone is suicidal, and admits to being suicidal, no one can force help on them.

    I’m thinking back to that dude here in Columbus with the knife downtown. His family had tried to get him help so many times. They knew he was violent. They knew he wasn’t taking his meds. They were reaching out for help from the police and the county centers, etc – but until someone commits a crime, or attempts suicide, there’s nothing that can be done.

    The whole mental health system is horribly broken.

    So, you’d like to make involuntary commitment easier?

    #552766

    gramarye
    Participant

    rus said:
    So, you’d like to make involuntary commitment easier?

    This is the problem. There are good reasons we made involuntary commitment harder, but now we’re paying the price for that. If we go back in the other direction, we might avoid this price, but we’ll just pay a different price. There’s no free lunch with respect to mental illness–at least not with respect to treating it, and we’re still generations away from understanding the biology of mental illness enough genuinely cure it (which I define as a condition that has been eliminated in a person and does not require a constant medical regimen to be kept at bay).

    In the meantime, this is going to be a grass-is-greener issue, and I could easily see the pendulum swinging back and forth. The highly public spate of incidents of mental illness leading to public mass violence of the past couple of years could push the pendulum back towards easier involuntary commitments, but I could easily see it swinging back to where we are today after that once a few abuses of the involuntary-commitment system likewise get widespread attention.

    (Basically, you can’t win, you can’t tie, and you can’t quit the game.)

    #552767

    Twixlen
    Participant

    rus said:
    So, you’d like to make involuntary commitment easier?

    Nope. But I would like it to be much easier for people to get treatment. Not just pills, but real treatment – the really expensive stuff. But it’s only available to the wealthy – mental health clinics and facilities have all but been stripped in state funding and in county funding. Homelessness has been on the rise.

    Think about PTSD. We all have the association of it with veterans, or even with people who experience large-scale traumatic events, like the World Trade Centers & 9/11. But we’re leaving off people who experience trauma every day – policemen & women, firefighters, nurses & other medical staff. Then there are people who experience personal events; car crashes, and sexual assault, and abuse, and pervasive bigotry & racism, even the experience of poverty – things that scar them in some way, and create irrational response mechanisms. We’re talking about a whole bunch of people. Now, studies of service members have shown that about half the population (of military folks, anyway) have the coping skills necessary to work around having PTSD. Maybe they have better outlets for frustration, or they have a more comprehensive network of friends and family. That still leaves a whole-buncha-many people out there, struggling every day.

    And seriously – pills are not always the answer. As you pointed out – most of the pills that are used were never created for the purpose of treating mental illness. We’ve just barely started studying why the brain does what it does, and why people do what they do.

    There are some great cognitive behavior therapies out there – but not many people have $200+ a week to drop on such things. I understand that the ACA is going to cover a lot more therapies than traditional insurance has in the past – which is great – but it’s still the tip of the iceberg.

    #552768
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Twixlen said:
    Nope. But I would like it to be much easier for people to get treatment. Not just pills, but real treatment – the really expensive stuff. But it’s only available to the wealthy – mental health clinics and facilities have all but been stripped in state funding and in county funding. Homelessness has been on the rise.

    Given your example of the guy with the knife, he’d have to want treatment at all. Doesn’t seem like he did, from what I recall of that incident.

    #552769

    Twixlen
    Participant

    rus said:
    Given your example of the guy with the knife, he’d have to want treatment at all. Doesn’t seem like he did, from what I recall of that incident.

    He didn’t want to take pills…. that’s not the same as not wanting treatment.

    #552770

    jillg
    Participant

    Maybe when you’re to the point that you’re murdering people, then yeah you might not be willing to get treatment. But maybe if these people had access to treatment before they got to that point, they would be more likely to accept it?

    #552771
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Twixlen said:
    He didn’t want to take pills…. that’s not the same as not wanting treatment.

    Hmm. Guess you could speculate either way, but I still don’t see how you can think everyone who’s mentally ill would voluntarily comply with treatment.

    Among the diagnosed schizophrenics I’ve known it took involuntary commitment post incident to get them to admit they had a problem. Common caveat about small sample size, etc. of course.

    #552772

    Twixlen
    Participant

    rus said:
    Hmm. Guess you could speculate either way, but I still don’t see how you can think everyone who’s mentally ill would voluntarily comply with treatment.

    Among the diagnosed schizophrenics I’ve known it took involuntary commitment post incident to get them to admit they had a problem. Common caveat about small sample size, etc. of course.

    Schizophrenia is a particularly difficult one… but, like a lot of dissociative disorders, it usually stems from some kind of trauma. So it’s hard to say if an earlier intervention would have helped…. it’s all speculation.

    #552773
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Speaking of schizophrenia:

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/politics/u-s-capitol-shooting/index.html

    Washington (CNN) — Authorities investigating why a Connecticut woman rammed barricades and led police on a chase near the U.S. Capitol found medications in her apartment to treat schizophrenia and other mental disorders, a law enforcement source briefed on the investigation said Friday.

    #552774

    Twixlen
    Participant

    Man set himself on fire this afternoon on the Washington mall –

    WASHINGTON — WASHINGTON (AP) — A man set himself on fire on the National Mall in the nation’s capital as passers-by rushed over to help douse the flames, officials and witnesses said Friday afternoon.

    The reason for the self-immolation was not immediately clear and the man’s identity was not disclosed. But it occurred in public view, on a central national gathering place, in a city still rattled by a mass shooting last month and a high-speed car chase outside the U.S. Capitol on Thursday that ended with a woman being shot dead by police.

    The man on the Mall suffered life-threatening injuries and was airlifted to the hospital, said District of Columbia fire department spokesman Tim Wilson.

    He was standing by himself in the center portion of the Mall when he emptied the contents of a red gasoline can on himself and set himself on fire moments later, said Katy Scheflen, who witnessed it as she walked across the area. Police say they responded around 4:20 p.m. Friday.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/man-sets-self-on-fire-national-mall_n_4046249.html

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