Our City Online

Messageboard - Development

NOTE: You are viewing an archived version of the Columbus Underground forums/messageboard. As of 05/22/16 they have been closed to new comments and replies, but will remain accessible for archived searches and reference. For more information CLICK HERE

Grandview Yard - News & Updates

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Development Grandview Yard – News & Updates

Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 795 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #452714
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    rus said:
    Gotta wonder just how many specialty grocery stores the local market can support.

    As ColumbusMike is pointing out, it’s more likely a measurement of total square footage rather than individual stores.

    If a certain population could support one 100,000 square foot big box, or ten small 10,000 square foot neighborhood “speciality” stores, then there’s your answer. It can support one or it can support ten.

    #452715
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Walker said:
    As ColumbusMike is pointing out, it’s more likely a measurement of total square footage rather than individual stores.

    If a certain population could support one 100,000 square foot big box, or ten small 10,000 square foot neighborhood “speciality” stores, then there’s your answer. It can support one or it can support ten.

    So can it support one or ten?

    Seems like there’s already enough specialty grocery ( whole foods, market district, trader joes ) options in town and whichever goes in this location of whatever size or format is competing for the same customers.

    I get that the developers would like some sort of grocery there to bring in traffic but I wonder if, or how well, that would work.

    #452716

    columbusmike
    Participant

    If Columbus really wants to become a walkable, vibrant, urban city…we need to ensure our grocery stores, one of the most fundamental elements of a neighborhood, is of the appropriate scale. Otherwise, we will see a continued trend in Columbus to have a few big box groceries pushing or preventing several local fish and meat markets, local bakeries, etc from opening shop. Places like Huffman’s Market in Upper Arlington would be a fine scale for just about any urban neighborhood.

    #452717
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    columbusmike said:
    Otherwise, we will see a continued trend in Columbus to have a few big box groceries pushing or preventing several local fish and meat markets, local bakeries, etc from opening shop.

    Sounds good to me, really.

    #452718
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    rus said:
    So can it support one or ten?

    It can support X number of square feet, is my point. Not a total number of stores.

    rus said:
    Seems like there’s already enough specialty grocery ( whole foods, market district, trader joes ) options in town and whichever goes in this location of whatever size or format is competing for the same customers. I get that the developers would like some sort of grocery there to bring in traffic but I wonder if, or how well, that would work.

    If the population is increasing in this area, and if customers are trending toward specialty stores, then the area could likely support another and continue to grow in that direction.

    Anyway, this discussion is likely unnecessary. It sounds to me like this area is getting a bigger Giant Eagle and two others nearby will close.

    #452719
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Walker said:

    Anyway, this discussion is likely unnecessary. It sounds to me like this area is getting a bigger Giant Eagle and two others nearby will close.

    Could be. Think the people who walk to those locations now will drive to the new location?

    #452720
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    rus said:
    Could be. Think the people who walk to those locations now will drive to the new location?

    Probably. Thus the big box cycle continues.

    #452721
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Walker said:
    Probably. Thus the big box cycle continues.

    Most likely that’s not going to change. Economies of scale lead to the same goods being cheaper and all and we’ve seen that most consumers are price sensitive more than they are anything else.

    I’m not sure the customers would follow to a new location. VV types might head to the renovated kroghetto instead ( seems like it would be closer ). Grandview types might follow to grandview yard, but there’s also target and krogers in easy distance.

    #452722

    ricospaz
    Participant

    I can walk or ride a bike to the current Giant Eagle on 5th in GV. I’d rather have a Trader Joes or something else in that location and have them create the Super GE down the road. parking sucks at the 5th Ave GE and it’s a small store, doesn’t have everything the other big box GEs have.

    Trader Joes always seems crowded, at least the one in Dublin. While we’re at it, put a City Barbecue in the old Hoggys location on 5th.

    #452723
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    ricospaz said:
    While we’re at it, put a City Barbecue in the old Hoggys location on 5th.

    Damn good idea.

    #452724
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    rus said:
    Most likely that’s not going to change. Economies of scale lead to the same goods being cheaper and all and we’ve seen that most consumers are price sensitive more than they are anything else.

    I’ve not noticed goods being any cheaper between the tiny German Village Giant Eagle and the newer 127,000 square foot Kingsdale Marketplace store. I think the “economies of scale” equation probably works as the company has more stores overall and the company itself is larger, but I don’t think that translates much to individual store sizes. Perhaps Giant Eagle turns a higher profit with a larger store… but I don’t think we’re going to see cheaper goods in a larger version of one of their stores.

    Anyway If “the economies of scale” were true for individual store sizes, then at what size would a store need to get for the items to be free? A million square feet? A billion?

    #452725
    Jason Powell
    Jason Powell
    Participant

    Walker said:
    Probably. Thus the big box cycle continues.

    Seeing as though grocery stores constitute the majority of trips by residents, it only seems logical that they are the anchors and centerpiece of walkable neighborhoods. Can you imagine being an agent and using the selling point of saying that you can walk two blocks or less to get groceries. That is and always should be, whenever possible, one of the main conveniences of urban, semi-urban living. Every existing grocer should be a potential redevelopment site. All this will do is close up one, maybe two grocers, both of which have a large amount of pedestrian customers, and encourage more driving. I’m just wandering if developers and planners are ever going to get it. They seem to get it is most other, more progressive cities (when it comes to neighborhood building), but not here. They get on their knees and bow down to the personal vehicle. And so the cycle continues and our neighborhoods lose character and become more disjointed. I know their are a lot of economics involved in the equation but their should be some “rules”. In my opinion, quality of life trumps economics.

    #452726
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Walker said:
    I’ve not noticed goods being any cheaper between the tiny German Village Giant Eagle and the newer 127,000 square foot Kingsdale Marketplace store. I think the “economies of scale” equation probably works as the company has more stores overall and the company itself is larger, but I don’t think that translates much to individual store sizes. Perhaps Giant Eagle turns a higher profit with a larger store… but I don’t think we’re going to see cheaper goods in a larger version of one of their stores.

    If cheaper goods is your goal, how does having lots of little stores get you there? If anything, the lower volumes would indicate a higher per unit cost and, thus, higher consumer prices.

    We’ve already seen that consumers will chose a lower cost item over a higher cost one of equal value ( see walmart, target, etc. ).

    People may say they want walkable neighborhoods and local shopping, but haven’t been paying for it. Instead, they drive to a big box or a strip mall. Heck, Market District is a good example: massive size and variety with common items and specialty items side by side.

    Seems like people prefer that rather than figuring out which little shop is carrying which thing they want or making do with what they find.

    #452727

    mrpoppinzs
    Member

    Never really minded driving to the grocery store. I think having a small walkable convenience type store to get some snacks, beer, etc is important but I would rather load up the car and do the main shopping for the week all at once than walk there 5 times. The specialty stores like Hills are nice, but they are not one stop shops, imho, as I would not pay $5 for cornflakes. Obviously, others may shop differently.

    #452728

    columbusmike
    Participant

    rus said:
    If cheaper goods is your goal, how does having lots of little stores get you there? If anything, the lower volumes would indicate a higher per unit cost and, thus, higher consumer prices.

    A smaller store often means fewer choices, not necessarily higher prices. If you go to a Kroger or Giant Eagle, they stock about 20 varieties of ruffled potato chips, where as a small store might only stock 3 varieties of potato chips.

    We’ve already seen that consumers will chose a lower cost item over a higher cost one of equal value ( see walmart, target, etc. ).

    People may say they want walkable neighborhoods and local shopping, but haven’t been paying for it. Instead, they drive to a big box or a strip mall.

    That’s mostly because a true, full-blown walkable neighborhood has not existed in the United States in 70 years, minus only a handful of places around the country. We might consider German Village or Victorian Village walkable…and indeed it is very walkable…but it’s nothing like how our cities were constructed before WWII.

    Hence, if you have to hop in your car anyways, why not drive to the cheapest prices? The WalMarts and Targets have catered very well to this … have made it easy for the automobile and made shopping an exciting adventure (although it’s nothing like the adventure of big store shopping from 30-40 years ago).

Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 795 total)

The forum ‘Development’ is closed to new topics and replies.

Subscribe below: