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Empty Seats at Blue Jacket Games

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Sports Empty Seats at Blue Jacket Games

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Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 169 total)
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  • #354082

    pedex
    Participant

    ticket sales or the “gate” at hockey games is but a part of what the CBJ takes in

    unless their arrangement has changed they get 51% of everything that happens in that arena

    Which means when the gate and profit at other events sucks they make less as well. For example the attendance for the World Extreme Cage fighting event was only about 45% capacity. Signs of the times.

    The arena is also basically in competition with the management company that runs it which is SMG based in Pittsburgh. They manage arenas and convention centers all over the US. Same management company takes care of the convention center. Not uncommon to have multiple venues bidding on the same event. The Schott takes some away too.

    Back in 2003-2005 when I worked there they needed about 4-5 good sized events plus packed hockey events every month to make a profit, the strike literally almost did them in. Once the novelty of a local hockey team wore off and the economy cooled off they’ve been hurting.

    What’s really funny is all the talk before the thing was built about how many jobs it would bring. Well, a handful make good $$ but most of labor that works in that place is minimum wage part time and no benefits. There’s a whole army of them. The new casino will be similar.

    #354083

    lakeerietransplant
    Participant

    pedex wrote >>
    ticket sales or the “gate” at hockey games is but a part of what the CBJ takes in
    unless their arrangement has changed they get 51% of everything that happens in that arena
    Which means when the gate and profit at other events sucks they make less as well. For example the attendance for the World Extreme Cage fighting event was only about 45% capacity. Signs of the times.
    The arena is also basically in competition with the management company that runs it which is SMG based in Pittsburgh. They manage arenas and convention centers all over the US. Same management company takes care of the convention center. Not uncommon to have multiple venues bidding on the same event. The Schott takes some away too.
    Back in 2003-2005 when I worked there they needed about 4-5 good sized events plus packed hockey events every month to make a profit, the strike literally almost did them in. Once the novelty of a local hockey team wore off and the economy cooled off they’ve been hurting.
    What’s really funny is all the talk before the thing was built about how many jobs it would bring. Well, a handful make good $$ but most of labor that works in that place is minimum wage part time and no benefits. There’s a whole army of them. The new casino will be similar.

    That sounds better than no jobs.

    #354084

    Wickham
    Member

    turbo ninja wrote >>
    Financially, the organization is just missing out on concession and parking revenues from these no-shows.

    Actually the organization doesn’t make ANY revenue from parking or naming rights regardless because it is all owned by Nationwide. Not sure about concessions however. That is the problem in the first place. If the organization did receive those revenue streams it would actually be very close to breaking even with current ticket sales.

    #354085

    pilsner
    Participant

    Zooky wrote >>
    It’s rare that I get pissed enough about something I read on one of these message boards as a lurker that I feel compelled to respond, but this discussion is missing some major facts.
    Had it not been for the CBJ, there would not be an arena district. The arena district generates over $30 million in taxes alone. The arena district has clearly added to the cultural landscape in many ways – one of which I believe is that the Short North has expanded as a result of the arena district. The reason the ballpark is downtown is due to Nationwide Arena and the hockey team. None of these things would have happened had the CBJ not ended up here.
    Instead of being grateful, the city of Columbus and Coleman have tried to penalize the team several times over. About 1-2 years ago when they were still on our trolly car kick, Coleman’s proposal to pay for all of that was basically that people buying tickets downtown would pay a surcharge for the trolly cars. However, none of the arts tickets would go toward this whatsoever. So essentially, Coleman wanted MAINLY season ticket holders who fork out a hell of a lot of money already to bankroll the trolly cars. Most season ticket holders would have shelled out around $300 for trolly’s they might ride a few times per year. Equally as stupid, the city has done absolutely nothing to help get this arena district thing fixed.
    Granted, voters did not approve of paying for the arena. It was privately funded. I get that. However, if there is something good within the city (yes, the team has sucked), why not attempt to keep it around, if nothing else but for adding to Columbus in general?
    Letting the team walk would be a big black eye for the city, and would only further the point that this is a college football town, and nothing more beyond that.
    Oh yeah, I am a season ticket holder btw, and think the whole deal sucks.

    If what you say is true, I totally agree that a surcharge on CBJ tickets to pay for trolleys was an outrageously stupid idea.

    On the other hand, Nationwide certainly got a sweetheart deal from the city. The arena’s assessed value is between $143M to $153M.

    Because of a tax abatement, Nationwide only pays 273K per year in property taxes for the arena and that piece of land.

    http://franklincountyoh.metacama.com/do/selectDisplay?parcelid=01000026680&select=SUMMARY&curpage=*

    http://franklincountyoh.metacama.com/do/selectDisplay?parcelid=01000026690&select=SUMMARY&curpage=*

    Plus, the Arena District area got TIFs for all the road and sewer improvements when the Arena was built. Hey, I’d love for my property taxes to be specially earmarked for me to make improvements for my house and property (that’s what a TIF is).

    zooky, what do you mean by your last statement: “and I think the whole deal sucks.”

    #354086
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Zooky wrote >>
    About 1-2 years ago when they were still on our trolly car kick, Coleman’s proposal to pay for all of that was basically that people buying tickets downtown would pay a surcharge for the trolly cars. However, none of the arts tickets would go toward this whatsoever. So essentially, Coleman wanted MAINLY season ticket holders who fork out a hell of a lot of money already to bankroll the trolly cars.

    Not entirely accurate.

    From Here: https://www.columbusunderground.com/streetcar-financing-plan-how-it-all-works

    The funding scenario presented to the Streetcar Working Group during a public meeting held at City Hall calls for 80% of the funding to be generated from within a ‘benefit zone’ drawn approximately three blocks on either side of the Streetcar line.

    All parking revenue from the ‘benefit zone’ would be dedicated to streetcars, including a increase on metered parking, and a 4% surcharge on paid parking and ticket admissions to sporting and entertainment events. Fares and an annual funding contribution from The Ohio State University would bring ‘benefit zone’ funding to 80% of the cost needed to build and operate the starter line.

    “This is a funding scenario that asks a lot of people to pay a little, so that no one has to pay a lot,” said John Rosenberger, a local expert on public private partnerships and downtown development. “We have been timid too long, streetcars would be a bold, transportation option that would drive a new generation of investment.”

    While the majority of funds come from those who live, work and visit the ‘benefit zone’, the remaining 20% will be paid for by the greater community, which also benefits from the economic growth of the area. The Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission (MORPC) has already pledged $20 million to the project.

    #354087

    pilsner
    Participant

    Wickham wrote >>

    turbo ninja wrote >>
    Financially, the organization is just missing out on concession and parking revenues from these no-shows.

    Actually the organization doesn’t make ANY revenue from parking or naming rights regardless because it is all owned by Nationwide. Not sure about concessions however. That is the problem in the first place. If the organization did receive those revenue streams it would actually be very close to breaking even with current ticket sales.

    Whoa, somebody had to pay to build the arena. Nationwide needs revenue from parking and a cut from concessions to pay for it.
    To say that the CBJ would be breaking even if they had these revenue streams is disingenuous.

    Let’s say the McConnell’s were the team owners and primary investors to build the arena. They’d still need the parking and concession revenues to pay for the facility and not to the overpaid players.

    The McConnells, Nationwide Insurance, and the Wolfes are supposedly vey good businesspersons and advocates of capitalism. I remember old man John McConnell saying his favorite book was “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand. Rand was an objectivist, which is extreme libertariansism. They believe government should stay out of everything and consider things like Social Security and Public Libraries to be “collectivist.”

    Yet, these titans of capitalism are always eager to suckle on the governments’ tit.

    #354088

    Patch
    Participant

    lifeliberty wrote >>
    Maybe I’m delusional(quite possibly!) but I think I remember reading an article about a startup company(I think from Columbus) starting something like Priceline or travelocity but for venue tickets. i never heard anything past that though. like a way to sell out unsold seats for cheap.

    This group was on the abc morning show today:

    http://www.tixitbox.com/

    #354089

    pilsner
    Participant

    These cheap ticket promos penalize season ticket holders.

    If I were a season ticket holder I’d be quite upset.

    #354090

    Zooky
    Participant

    Walker wrote >>

    Zooky wrote >>
    About 1-2 years ago when they were still on our trolly car kick, Coleman’s proposal to pay for all of that was basically that people buying tickets downtown would pay a surcharge for the trolly cars. However, none of the arts tickets would go toward this whatsoever. So essentially, Coleman wanted MAINLY season ticket holders who fork out a hell of a lot of money already to bankroll the trolly cars.

    Not entirely accurate.
    From Here: https://www.columbusunderground.com/streetcar-financing-plan-how-it-all-works
    The funding scenario presented to the Streetcar Working Group during a public meeting held at City Hall calls for 80% of the funding to be generated from within a ‘benefit zone’ drawn approximately three blocks on either side of the Streetcar line.
    All parking revenue from the ‘benefit zone’ would be dedicated to streetcars, including a increase on metered parking, and a 4% surcharge on paid parking and ticket admissions to sporting and entertainment events. Fares and an annual funding contribution from The Ohio State University would bring ‘benefit zone’ funding to 80% of the cost needed to build and operate the starter line.
    “This is a funding scenario that asks a lot of people to pay a little, so that no one has to pay a lot,” said John Rosenberger, a local expert on public private partnerships and downtown development. “We have been timid too long, streetcars would be a bold, transportation option that would drive a new generation of investment.”
    While the majority of funds come from those who live, work and visit the ‘benefit zone’, the remaining 20% will be paid for by the greater community, which also benefits from the economic growth of the area. The Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission (MORPC) has already pledged $20 million to the project.

    Ok Walker, I’m not really getting how my point was incorrect based upon your post. My season tickets are around $6500 per year. If there were a 4% surcharge on my tickets, I would be paying an extra $260 on my tickets. While yes, there would be a ‘benefit zone’ and all sorts of other hooey, when you take into account 12,000 season ticket holders at 3-10k a pop multiplied by 4%, I think it becomes fairly obvious where the bulk of that revenue would have come from. I remember asking club officials about it at the time, and they completely recognized they would have gotten royally screwed on the deal (well, their fan base anyway).

    I suppose it is true that the city did create a tif, incentives, whatever to put in sewer lines, etc for the arena. That’s kind of like sending a check to the dealership for $100 for a new car though.

    As for the valuation on the arena, doesn’t sound like it’s far off base. Fact of the matter is it’s obviously losing money, and it loses 60% of its potential tenants to the Schott.

    The whole deal sucks b/c it appears very few people in Columbus seem to care about potentially losing a professional sports team, and don’t appear to see economic or other value in keeping the team here.

    #354091

    Zooky
    Participant

    pilsner wrote >>
    These cheap ticket promos penalize season ticket holders.
    If I were a season ticket holder I’d be quite upset.

    They price season tickets in the hole by around 15-25%. A lot of the deals bring the seats down to around that same cost. I have a feeling renewals will take a huge hit. My PSL’s have existed since the beginning of the arena, and I will likely not renew this year.

    #354092

    lifeliberty
    Participant

    Patch wrote >>
    This group was on the abc morning show today:
    http://www.tixitbox.com/

    Thanks!

    #354093
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Zooky wrote >>
    Ok Walker, I’m not really getting how my point was incorrect based upon your post.

    I didn’t say you were incorrect… just that your initial post wasn’t entirely accurate. Funding for the Streetcar was spread out over a variety of sources through the “benefit zone”. While season ticket holders would have to pony up their share, your initial post make it sound as if they were the only group paying for the Streetcar.

    Which wasn’t entirely accurate.

    Either way, it’s kind of a moot point, seeing as it never went through.

    #354094

    pilsner
    Participant

    groundrules wrote >>

    pilsner wrote >>
    Hello Franklin County Commissioners!!! Do not swindle the taxpayers. Deeply discounted tickets will not meet the costs of payroll.
    The Blue Jackets are trying to artificially fill up Nationwide Arena and cram the bailout through.

    you really think that the county commissioners are dealing with the day to day operations of Blue Jackets marketing/ticket sales?
    the foil is thick with this one.

    It’s tin foil to expect due diligence from the County Commissioners when considering a hockey bailout!?

    That’s rich. The fact that the Blue Jackets are losing at least $12 million a year and selling tickets at minor league prices and making payroll for a major league team goes to the heart of the matter.

    The CBJ have champagne taste with a beer income. That’s why they are losing money.

    #354095

    pilsner
    Participant

    Zooky wrote >>

    pilsner wrote >>
    These cheap ticket promos penalize season ticket holders.
    If I were a season ticket holder I’d be quite upset.

    They price season tickets in the hole by around 15-25%. A lot of the deals bring the seats down to around that same cost. I have a feeling renewals will take a huge hit. My PSL’s have existed since the beginning of the arena, and I will likely not renew this year.

    Zooky,

    I’m confused. You posted previously that you pay $6500 for season tickets this year. I assume that’s for one season ticket. For 41 games that comes out to be over $150 games per year. So why aren’t season ticket holders irate that the CBJ are selling tickets for $10 in the upper bowl and $20 in the lower bowl at Groupon? Does that play into you saying you likely won’t renew next year?

    Also, you said that losing the CBJ would be terrible for Columbus’ image. Personally, I think Columbus needs to get over this inferiority complex regarding pro sports and revel in being the largest college town in the country with a kickass MLS team. Columbus just happens to be sandwiched between two older cities (Cleveland and Cincy).

    Seattle is a superior city to Oklahoma City even though OKC took away the Supersonics.

    #354096

    lifeliberty
    Participant

    I don’t see why season ticket holders would be upset, they obviously had the money to buy season tickets in the first place and they are supporting the CBJ, it’s called team pride. What you are talking about is buyers remorse which I doubt would happen(not that is absolutly doesn’t) often to fans willing enought to buy season tickets.
    CBJ marketers are trying to gather new support. You try to get new customers with coupons and people that would normally not go end up going. And then they may like it and continue supporting. it’s not a new concept, especially in this economy.(see dine originals, fudha, groupon, etc)

    I think I am failing to see what your crusade against CBJ is about or why you have an axe to grind and are trying to muster up support for your cause. is it the public support? Because we’ve seen lots of public support in the form of bailouts through tough times over the past couple of years so it’s not entirely unheard of.

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