Our City Online

Messageboard - Development

NOTE: You are viewing an archived version of the Columbus Underground forums/messageboard. As of 05/22/16 they have been closed to new comments and replies, but will remain accessible for archived searches and reference. For more information CLICK HERE

Downtown Parking - News & Updates

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Development Downtown Parking – News & Updates

  • This topic has 71 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 5 years ago by News.
Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 72 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #396225
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    No, I gotcha. Just sounds like a difference of opinion I guess. More people = more parking. My neighborhood certainly needs more people, so I’d welcome it regardless of a few added parking woes.

    #396226

    News
    Participant

    Lowering Parking Minimums Is Nowhere Close to a “War on Cars”
    Tuesday, February 5, 2013
    by Angie Schmitt

    The famed “War on Cars” — who among us hasn’t heard this tired hyperbole tossed around with wild abandon? Want to install a bike lane? Gasp! “War on cars!” Speeding cameras in school zones? “War on cars!!” Raise tolls to cover the huge cost of roads? “WAR ON CARS!!!”

    READ MORE: http://streetsblog.net/2013/02/05/ending-mandatory-parking-minimums-is-not-a-war-on-cars/

    #396227

    InnerCore
    Participant

    Not to mix threads but over in the Easton Gateway thread it shows 542,054 SF of retail and 2,930 SF. I believe the parking minimum for retail is about 1 car for every 300 SF. So the minimum they need to provide is 1,806. So they are providing 1,124 more parking spaces than whats required.

    It seems a parking maximum would be more useful than a parking minimum. At about 300 SF for parking space (including drive and turn lane) that’s about 340,000 SF of asphalt. All to make sure no one has to walk a few extra steps after scarfing down their 2 for $20 at Applebees.

    #396228

    columbusmike
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    Not to mix threads but over in the Easton Gateway thread it shows 542,054 SF of retail and 2,930 SF. I believe the parking minimum for retail is about 1 car for every 300 SF. So the minimum they need to provide is 1,806. So they are providing 1,124 more parking spaces than whats required.

    It seems a parking maximum would be more useful than a parking minimum. At about 300 SF for parking space (including drive and turn lane) that’s about 340,000 SF of asphalt. All to make sure no one has to walk a few extra steps after scarfing down their 2 for $20 at Applebees.

    If I’m not mistaken, Columbus lifted their minimum parking requirement about 2 or 3 years ago. Either way, I agree with you, a maximum per square foot would probably be better. Or even if they insist on building that much parking, at least require it to not contribute to runoff.

    #396229

    InnerCore
    Participant

    columbusmike said:
    If I’m not mistaken, Columbus lifted their minimum parking requirement about 2 or 3 years ago. Either way, I agree with you, a maximum per square foot would probably be better. Or even if they insist on building that much parking, at least require it to not contribute to runoff.

    They only lifted the minimums in the downtown district. Everywhere else still has parking minimums.

    The runoff requirement is interesting. Maybe the extra cost of porous asphalt my make it more likely they add less spaces.

    #396230
    Jason Powell
    Jason Powell
    Participant

    The extra parking spaces at virtually any retail space, particularly big box/strip center retail, are for holiday shopping overflow only. Sad but true.

    #396231

    columbusmike
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    They only lifted the minimums in the downtown district. Everywhere else still has parking minimums.

    The runoff requirement is interesting. Maybe the extra cost of porous asphalt my make it more likely they add less spaces.

    I’m guessing the big box chains/developers would at least think twice about the extra spaces. It would at least make sure those spaces that go unused 364 days out of the year don’t contribute to massive amounts of runoff that cost taxpayers money.

    They would probably scream bloody murder and threaten not to build, but I don’t see them turning down the opportunity in the end. It might even encourage, gasp, they re-use existing infrastructure! I’m all about making it incredibly difficult to develop on “green” land.

    #396232

    johnwirtz
    Participant

    [b]Wooing Suburban Drivers With Cheap Parking: A Losing Strategy for Cities[/b]

    There may be nothing sadder than distressed cities trying to compete with the suburbs by adding more parking spaces. (We’re looking at you, Cleveland, Detroit, and Buffalo!)

    Chris McCahill and Norman Garrick recently wrote in Atlantic Cities about the failure of this approach: Cities that attempt to use parking as an economic development strategy actually undermine their own cause. And today at the State Smart Transportation Institute, Mary Ebeling adds some more perspective to the research:

    MORE: http://streetsblog.net/2013/02/26/wooing-suburban-drivers-with-cheap-parking-a-losing-strategy-for-cities/

    #396233

    cadillackid
    Participant

    cant too few parking spaces though be construed as a deterrent for people to come into the city.. drive 20+ minutes only to find theres no place to park.. or “special event” fees that go sky high.. enough to turn some people around.. that in turn tell their friends “downtown parking sucks”…

    Columbus I believe has plenty of truly downtown parking… but areas like the short north surely suffer from lack of it…. people living in the short north can easily attest to the lack of parking.. when they get home and have to park 6 blocks away to unload their groceries.. permit parking helps with residents woes.. but having all kinds of new restaraunts / pubs built where there used to be clothing stores does not… an average of 5-10 people MAX in a clothing store at a time.. for a short time.. vs an average of 50+ people MAX in a bar / pub at a time for several hours.. is really going to strain things..

    comparing columbus to chicago is not even close.. as we have a (sorry im blunt) CRAPPY public transit system to get people into town for an evening out… as a result no one uses it..

    BTW im a suburbanite that finds myself in the city as LOT.. patronizing the businesses of downtown and the short north nearly daily… if I had to start paying a lot to park.. id surely find somewhere else for me (and my money) to go.. and trying riding the COTA from Grove city… nearest route is 2 miles from my house.. i dont dig COLD.. so I wouldnt think of walking that 2 miles on no-sidewalk warehouse district streets in windy cold conditions… id stay home first.. or drive burb to burb…

    -Christopher

    #396234

    mrpoppinzs
    Member

    I believe that the new parking garages will help somewhat with parking congestion in the SN.

    I would love to have a free COTA loop bus as has been discussed running from the downtown to 5th and High for both tourists and visitors, they could utilitize some of the extra spaces downtown has to offer in the evening.

    Rubber tire trolley – bridge the gap before light rail

    #396235

    cadillackid
    Participant

    I would love to see that also.. because yes most times there are LOTS of empty spaces on evenings / weekends downtown.. I remember years ago they had “Cota link” that ran some hours during the day to try and promote people working downtown to patronize businesses in the short north for lunch.. but somehow that went by the wayside.. something like that even just on say thurs-sat nights.. up and down high street even… which would allow people to make use of city center garage, surface lots, surface meters etc downtown..
    -Christopher

    #396236

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    cadillackid said:
    cant too few parking spaces though be construed as a deterrent for people to come into the city.. drive 20+ minutes only to find theres no place to park.. or “special event” fees that go sky high.. enough to turn some people around.. that in turn tell their friends “downtown parking sucks”…

    Columbus I believe has plenty of truly downtown parking… but areas like the short north surely suffer from lack of it…. people living in the short north can easily attest to the lack of parking.. when they get home and have to park 6 blocks away to unload their groceries.. permit parking helps with residents woes.. but having all kinds of new restaraunts / pubs built where there used to be clothing stores does not… an average of 5-10 people MAX in a clothing store at a time.. for a short time.. vs an average of 50+ people MAX in a bar / pub at a time for several hours.. is really going to strain things..

    comparing columbus to chicago is not even close.. as we have a (sorry im blunt) CRAPPY public transit system to get people into town for an evening out… as a result no one uses it..

    BTW im a suburbanite that finds myself in the city as LOT.. patronizing the businesses of downtown and the short north nearly daily… if I had to start paying a lot to park.. id surely find somewhere else for me (and my money) to go.. and trying riding the COTA from Grove city… nearest route is 2 miles from my house.. i dont dig COLD.. so I wouldnt think of walking that 2 miles on no-sidewalk warehouse district streets in windy cold conditions… id stay home first.. or drive burb to burb…

    -Christopher

    Disagree with a lot of this. First, getting suburbanites back into the city, imo, should not be the urban core’s primary goal. Why? Because it’s a massively failed policy. In the 1950s and 1960s, catering to the car in urban neighborhoods is literally what destroyed the urban makeup of the city, with the wholesale destruction of buildings that were replaced with parking in the belief that it was going to bring more people back to the city. It didn’t work, and ended up doing the exact opposite. So too did ramming major highways through neighborhoods. Populations plummeted and we’ve been picking up the piece since.

    You said that the Short North lacks adequate parking, and that may be true, but it’s funny that such conditions exist yet the SN is also one of the densist, most vibrant and successful neighborhoods in the city. I’d hardly call that “suffering”. Making more and more space for car-oriented infrastructure has been tried before and it’s always made neighborhoods worse. I don’t mind underground garages or those that are more mixed-use in nature, but I just don’t get the idea that suburbanites should expect a total car-oriented environment in urban neighborhoods. Isn’t that why people live in the suburbs, so they don’t have to put up with things like mass transit, diversity and density? If you want to live in the suburbs and use your car for everything, fine, that’s your choice. But go to Rome-Hilliard if the abundance of parking is a primary concern. Downtown and the surrounding urban core should and will be developed with different priorites in mind.

    #396237

    Graybeak
    Participant

    jbcmh81 said:
    But go to Rome-Hilliard if the abundance of parking is a primary concern. Downtown and the surrounding urban core should and will be developed with different priorites in mind.

    Not just abundance of parking is the problem in the SN, it is a lack of adequate parking that makes it such a pain to deal with. I would rather go somewhere that it is easy to park than have to drive around for 30 minutes to find a spot then walk the half mile or whatever to my final destination. Especially in crappy weather.

    If the “priorities in mind” are getting people to visit, patronize businesses, see art, whatever, they need to be able to get there, without getting all cheesed off in the process.

    #396238

    mrpoppinzs
    Member

    @jbcmh81

    That seems a little overboard in a ‘cutting off the nose to spite the face’ kind of way. Wouldn’t a new COTA link as described fix a lot of the congestion and help further justify some of the taxes we all (urban & surbanite) pay that go to COTA.

    #396239

    InnerCore
    Participant

    It seems the empirical data disagrees with you.

    http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2013/02/cars-and-robust-cities-are-fundamentally-incompatible/4651/

    The city leaders played an important role, either by requiring developers to include parking or by having it built themselves. Municipal records reveal they did this in hopes that it would support economic development and help their cities compete with the surrounding suburbs.

    What actually increased in these cities were the rates of driving. Driving increased for people commuting in and out of the city by more than 30 percent. But even for shorter trips within each city, driving increased by as much as 45 percent. Even worse, this change was the most pronounced in places where vehicle ownership rates remained the lowest (low-income cities). The combined effects of improved convenience for drivers, a degraded walking environment, service cuts to public transit and the physical separation of residential and commercial areas were forcing city-dwellers into cars.

    Step back and think about what you’re saying for a minute. I know everyone wants the world to revolve around them but the fact is that the world can’t revolve around everyone. You live in the suburbs and yet you are frequenting urban SN establishments on an almost daily basis. If the business you want to use are in the urban areas then you should think about actually living within/near those areas.

    Building parking garages only leads to a vicious cycle. If you build them then it makes it more convenient for you to drive. Then of course you run and tell all the rest of you suburbanite friends and then they also drive. Meanwhile all the spaces that is used to house these cars only works to destroy the fabric of the urban community that makes it great in the first place.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 72 total)

The forum ‘Development’ is closed to new topics and replies.

Subscribe to the Columbus Underground YouTube channel for exclusive interviews and news updates!

CLICK HERE TO SUBSCRIBE