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Downtown Manhattan is DEAD at night

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Everyday Chit Chat Downtown Manhattan is DEAD at night

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 54 total)
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  • #296374

    Paul
    Participant

    Bear, you’re forgetting Walker’s favorite way to present an argument: Misrepresenting data to support whatever point he’s trying to make. Then backpedaling afterwards if he gets called out on it. Just wait for the second part, it’s coming in T-minus 3…

    #296375
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    I appreciate the personal insults, Paul. Glad to have you back.

    #296376

    Bear
    Participant

    Paul wrote >>
    Bear, you’re forgetting Walker’s favorite way to present an argument: Misrepresenting data to support whatever point he’s trying to make. Then backpedaling afterwards if he gets called out on it. Just wait for the second part, it’s coming in T-minus 3…

    Bah. It’s a bad graphic, pure and simple — it’s ambiguous enough that you can read all sorts of things into it. No one in his right mind should have added “Traffic rank” along the left-hand side — it’s irrelevant at best but suggests a foot-traffic interpretation at worst. And why is the average daily commute relevant?

    I mean, nice job with the jazzy 3D stuff, but it’s all for shit if the actual information gets lost.

    #296377

    Paul
    Participant

    Drawing brazen conclusions from ambigious data is what pundits are great at! Thanks for the post, Walker!

    #296378

    Paul
    Participant

    Walker wrote >>
    I appreciate the personal insults, Paul. Glad to have you back.

    Where was the personal insult? I attacked the way you form arguments, based on historical evidence.

    If I’d said, “Man, Walker is a d-bag, he’s such an idiot because all his posts are stupid like him.” That would be an insult, which I think you know I don’t feel that way about you AT ALL.

    But if you can’t take some heat for ridiculous posts like this one, I mean, geeze, you should reconsider what you do for a living.

    PS. I think my post was much less acerbic than ja rule’s.

    #296379
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Bear wrote >>
    It’s not clear to me that this map is measuring the same thing you mean when you say that an area is “dead at night.”

    You’re totally right. Thanks for taking a thoughtful look at this without calling my character into question.

    ZHC wrote >>
    What we call downtown is far too large and ought to be broken down into largely commercial, largely residential and mixed use areas.

    I really think we’d get far better results if we narrowed our focus instead of trying to put housing where it’s less likely to grow organically.

    Just because it’s urban, dense, called “downtown” and inside the innerbelts doesn’t mean it has to be treated like a Commercial Business district throughout.

    I agree. And I was generalizing quite a bit with the boundaries I was sloppily throwing around. Obviously these areas we’re discussing differ quite a bit from block to block.

    #296380
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Paul wrote >>
    But if you can’t take some heat for ridiculous posts like this one, I mean, geeze, you should reconsider what you do for a living.

    Oh… that was heat you were generating? ;)

    I just find it amusing that I can make a whole year’s worth of good points without the slightest peep from Paul, but the second something strays a few inches off the radar in storms the TRUTH POLICE with his HISTORICAL EVIDENCE of BAD ARGUMENTS.

    WOOP WOOP! WALKER IS WRONG ONCE AGAIN SEE YOU GUYS IN SIX MORE MONTHS! PAUL OUT!

    #296381

    Paul
    Participant

    My work here is done. :-)

    Much love to 614, as always.

    -PaulL2

    #296382
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Hope “The Wash” is treating you well. ;) Give us some advanced notice next time you’re in town!

    #296383

    Bear
    Participant

    So, just looking around for more relevant data, I came across this.

    Kinda like taking a drink from a fire hose. Data geeks, be forewarned — it’s like crack.

    The graphs on page 80 (!) are about what you’d want, I think, Walker, except that they cut off around 6 p.m. and it’d be cool to see what happens into the evening hours. It looks from the text as though they gathered data for the full 24-hour period.

    #296384

    michaelcoyote
    Participant

    Yeah, I noticed on the night map that the entertainment districts (e.g. Meatpacking, Midtown/Times Sq) were the deadest looking, so I’m guessing that the study only compared employment and housing data. A graph of just Gay St. would be similarly skewed even though there’s plenty of people there at night. I think if you could get the full 24hr dataset from the graph Bear posted, you’d have a far more complete picture..

    #296385

    gk
    Member

    The vibrancy of any great city stems mostly from its ability to draw people from outside – whether that be tourists or surburbanites. That is Columbus’ challenge these days as residents outside the downtown area see no reason to come downtown, partly due to the total lack of retail shopping (America’s favorite pasttime), the lack of fine restaurants that they cannot otherwise find in the suburbs, etc. While I have both lived and worked downtown for many years now and am happy to see more residential downtown development, we cannot expect a vibrant downtown until we are once again able to draw people from the outside to the city center. We need to give them a special or unique reason to come down here; i.e., something they cannot otherwise get in the suburbs. City Center with its one-of-a-kind stores served that purpose for over a decade in this city, even though the architectural design was flawed from the beginning in terms of keeping all those shoppers captive within its fortress like walls.

    #296386

    honavery
    Member

    One interesting stat I read on Gizmodo when I came across this graphic last week.

    From 8:00AM to 8:59 AM on an average Fall day in 2007 the NYC Subway carried 388,802 passengers into the CBD [city business district] on 370 trains over 22 tracks. In other words, a train carrying 1,050 people crossed into the CBD every 6 seconds.

    #296387

    Tenzo
    Participant

    ZHC wrote >>
    This reinforces my point that I’ve been harping at for a number of years. No major US city I’ve ever been to has a tremendous amount of housing right in the center of their CBD

    Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia

    And New York midtown is hardly dead at night. They have more activity at 1:00 am than Columbus has at noon.

    I do have to agree that you took a graph for one thing and then extrapolated it out to mean another. All the infographic showed was that many more people are in an area working than living at night. Show me the data that has number of people in an area at night.

    #296388

    gramarye
    Participant

    michaelcoyote wrote >>

    Walker wrote >>
    Yes, even the largest city in the US has both business districts and residential neighborhoods:

    Almost no-one I know lives in Manhattan proper anymore.. Most of them live in Brooklyn or Queens (although one guy I know does live in Harlem)..
    The reason? Manhattan is too expensive.. It’s way cheaper to live in Green Point, Carroll Gardens or Red Hook..

    It is, but nevertheless, the reason apartments are so expensive in the city is because a great many people still do live there, and want to live there. (That, and because there are zoning ordinances restricting supply growth, so it’s impossible to just plonk down another 50,000 units a la Sim City, even though they’d fill almost instantly at a halfway-competitive price point.)

    I think the bigger reason the graphs make Downtown NYC *look* deserted after dark is because of what Bear noted about skyscrapers. Loosely packed offices for 50 floors will still have more total people than a busy street at a single grade.

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