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Downtown Manhattan is DEAD at night

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Everyday Chit Chat Downtown Manhattan is DEAD at night

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  • #77608
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Yes, even the largest city in the US has both business districts and residential neighborhoods:

    #296360

    michaelcoyote
    Participant

    Walker wrote >>
    Yes, even the largest city in the US has both business districts and residential neighborhoods:

    Almost no-one I know lives in Manhattan proper anymore.. Most of them live in Brooklyn or Queens (although one guy I know does live in Harlem)..

    The reason? Manhattan is too expensive.. It’s way cheaper to live in Green Point, Carroll Gardens or Red Hook..

    #296361

    Bear
    Participant

    People in hotels don’t count as far as “deadness” is concerned… normally not an issue, but in Manhattan?

    #296362
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Yeah, it is pricey… but my point was more about how there are specific areas that are set up as business districts (Financial District, Midtown) that bustle 9-to-5 but are dead at night and on weekends.

    Just as Downtown Columbus is a Business District and neighborhoods like Victorian, Italian, and German Villages are residential neighborhoods.

    Not saying that Downtown housing in Columbus is a bad idea… just that “dead at night” business district isn’t as uncommon as some people in Columbus make it sound. ;)

    #296363

    howatzer
    Participant

    Walker wrote >>
    Yeah, it is pricey… but my point was more about how there are specific areas that are set up as business districts (Financial District, Midtown) that bustle 9-to-5 but are dead at night and on weekends.
    Just as Downtown Columbus is a Business District and neighborhoods like Victorian, Italian, and German Villages are residential neighborhoods.
    Not saying that Downtown housing in Columbus is a bad idea… just that “dead at night” business district isn’t as uncommon as some people in Columbus make it sound. ;)

    I think columbus is way better than most – the arena district and the Gay street area certainly arent dead at night, and at least those areas are close to the “business district”. I don’t think this is an issue for C-bus.

    #296364

    Rockmastermike
    Participant

    The areas around Chelsea and the Village (east or west) certainly didn’t seem ‘dead at night’ the last time I was there. Not really “downtown” though. Downtown is, if I remember, more of a financial district, but I have not been there in quite some time.

    #296365

    somertimeoh
    Participant

    Yeah, it’s not fun. Sometimes if I can get a hotel in Midtown I have to stay lower Manhattan and it’s dead, dark, and kinda scary. North of the financial district (I’m assuming that’s what you mean by downtown) has good life – LES, Tribecca, Soho, etc., but if you’ve got to stay around Wall Street it sucks BIG TIME.

    #296366

    somertimeoh
    Participant

    Dammit, RMM, too fast for me :)

    #296367

    L.I. to Buckeye
    Participant

    Walker wrote >>
    Yeah, it is pricey… but my point was more about how there are specific areas that are set up as business districts (Financial District, Midtown) that bustle 9-to-5 but are dead at night and on weekends.
    Just as Downtown Columbus is a Business District and neighborhoods like Victorian, Italian, and German Villages are residential neighborhoods.
    Not saying that Downtown housing in Columbus is a bad idea… just that “dead at night” business district isn’t as uncommon as some people in Columbus make it sound. ;)

    Yeah. Years ago (pre-9/11), my best friend and I saw a concert in Battery Park. Walking to a subway stop through the Wall Street area afterwards (at night, but earlier than 10pm) was so deserted and desolate it was kind of creepy!

    #296368

    ja
    Member

    Walker wrote >>
    Yeah, it is pricey… but my point was more about how there are specific areas that are set up as business districts (Financial District, Midtown) that bustle 9-to-5 but are dead at night and on weekends.
    Just as Downtown Columbus is a Business District and neighborhoods like Victorian, Italian, and German Villages are residential neighborhoods.
    Not saying that Downtown housing in Columbus is a bad idea… just that “dead at night” business district isn’t as uncommon as some people in Columbus make it sound. ;)

    LOL Walker, you are so full of shit! So you are now trying to convince us that our entire downtown from Nationwide to Fulton – one of the largest in the country – is the financial district. So we shouldn’t expect to see people there after work or on weekends. I hardly think that a bar that serves largely fried food and an italian bistro on Gay Street make for a vibrant downtown. We still cannot fill the empty storefronts on one side of the street of a single city block, despite all the city improvements to Gay Street. Keep it real, Walker.

    #296369
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Excuse me?

    #296370
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    ja wrote >>
    So you are now trying to convince us that our entire downtown from Nationwide to Fulton – one of the largest in the country – is the financial district.

    No, not quite.

    #296371

    ZHC
    Member

    This reinforces my point that I’ve been harping at for a number of years. No major US city I’ve ever been to has a tremendous amount of housing right in the center of their CBD

    e.g. San Francisco’s financial district is no different than New York’s at night. I’ve talked to a more than a few downtown hardware store owners in different big cities and they all tell me the same thing. Dead at nights and little to no sunday traffic. Most don’t bother to open on Sundays and some don’t on Saturdays.

    The city in my opinion should consider incentivizing housing further outside of the Square not immediately next to it (think Town franklin, Pen West, Market Xchange, warehouse District and the RBD instead where land values are cheaper and there is less competing demand for commercial office space and more importantly less demand for commercial office space parking). The potential of delivering larger & cheaper housing units is greater there, especially if the city can loosen/streamline zoning regs a bit further.

    What we call downtown is far too large and ought to be broken down into largely commercial, largely residential and mixed use areas.

    I really think we’d get far better results if we narrowed our focus instead of trying to put housing where it’s less likely to grow organically.

    Just because it’s urban, dense, called “downtown” and inside the innerbelts doesn’t mean it has to be treated like a Commercial Business district throughout.

    Just my two cents

    #296372

    Paul
    Participant

    Walker wrote >>
    Yeah, it is pricey… but my point was more about how there are specific areas that are set up as business districts (Financial District, Midtown) that bustle 9-to-5 but are dead at night and on weekends.

    Yeah Midtown is really dead on nights/weekends…

    #296373

    Bear
    Participant

    Walker wrote >>
    Yeah, it is pricey… but my point was more about how there are specific areas that are set up as business districts (Financial District, Midtown) that bustle 9-to-5 but are dead at night and on weekends.

    No, I’m actually making a different point — it’s not clear to me that this map is measuring the same thing you mean when you say that an area is “dead at night.”

    Maps like these often represent the number of static people in a given area (office workers during the day, residents during the night). If that’s really what you want to be measuring, OK — but I thought you wanted to know how many people were on the street, and in Manhattan a lot of the people on the street in the evenings and at night aren’t residents of Manhattan, they come from somewhere else and wouldn’t be captured in that graphic. So you can’t conclude that downtown is (or isn’t) dead at night just by looking at the number of residents.

    Another complicating factor is that a bustling street actually doesn’t hold very many people per city block relative to a fairly loosely packed skyscraper… so putting day population and night population on the same scale wouldn’t really work well to begin with, not to be a pain.

    You also can’t really tell what point at night this snapshot is meant to capture — 8pm would be different than 2am from the POV of foot traffic, but not from the POV of residency, which is another reason I suspect it’s measuring the number of residents.

    ETA: Yeah, in fact, it’s gotta be residency. Midtown, as Paul pointed out, is reliably busy at street level on most any night, but it’s about the flattest area on that map.

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