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CBUS Circulator — Free Downtown COTA Bus Route

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion CBUS Circulator — Free Downtown COTA Bus Route

Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 403 total)
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  • #549474

    UrbanPlanner2112
    Participant

    I didn’t say they shouldn’t try it again, I was just reminding them of history, so hopefully they don’t repeat it without some changes.

    #549475

    InnerCore
    Participant

    UrbanPlanner2112 said:
    I didn’t say they shouldn’t try it again, I was just reminding them of history, so hopefully they don’t repeat it without some changes.

    Well for starters DOWNTOWN has changed. If recall correctly last time the circulator was primarily during the day for office workers as there weren’t as many downtown residents nor places/things to go to/from at night.

    #549476

    Lu
    Participant

    UrbanPlanner2112 said:
    People don’t instinctively understand wheeled trolleys and tend not to use them.

    Source? I can think of several bus trolleys/circulators with very heavy usage: Orlando’s I-Ride, DC’s Circulator, Denver’s MallRide, Baltimore’s Charm City Circulator, Bethesda’s Circulator, etc.

    #549477
    Ned23
    Ned23
    Participant

    Boston also has trackless trolleys, IIRC. But they run on electric wires and go into tunnels and such. So it is somewhere in between a bus and a trolley.

    #549478

    UrbanPlanner2112
    Participant

    Lu said:
    Source? I can think of several bus trolleys/circulators with very heavy usage: Orlando’s I-Ride, DC’s Circulator, Denver’s MallRide, Baltimore’s Charm City Circulator, Bethesda’s Circulator, etc.

    Yes, certainly! I am always happy to provide good data:

    Seattle Streetcar Feasibility Analysis, June 30, 2004. Parsons Brinckerhoff, Nelson Nygaard Consulting Associates & URS Corporation:

    “Streetcars provide a visible and easy-to-understand routing, which attracts new users. In fact, in cities where bus lines have converted to streetcars, ridership has increased from 15% (Toronto) to 500% (Tacoma). In Memphis, 83% of streetcar riders do not otherwise use public transit, suggesting that streetcars could attract riders that similar bus services cannot.”

    There are additional citations and if you would find them helpful I’d be happy to list them.

    #549479

    InnerCore
    Participant

    UrbanPlanner2112 said:
    Yes, certainly! I am always happy to provide good data:

    Seattle Streetcar Feasibility Analysis, June 30, 2004. Parsons Brinckerhoff, Nelson Nygaard Consulting Associates & URS Corporation:

    “Streetcars provide a visible and easy-to-understand routing, which attracts new users. In fact, in cities where bus lines have converted to streetcars, ridership has increased from 15% (Toronto) to 500% (Tacoma). In Memphis, 83% of streetcar riders do not otherwise use public transit, suggesting that streetcars could attract riders that similar bus services cannot.”

    There are additional citations and if you would find them helpful I’d be happy to list them.

    Pretty much most of you complaints about a circulator don’t apply when I used to ride the DC circulator. Understanding where the circulator is going is just as easy as understanding where a streetcar is going. And the fixed route of both a circulator and streetcar help to create the right “atmosphere” of riders.

    Most people who believe in mass transit will agree with you that MORE people will ride a street car instead of a circulator. But that is more of a correlation doesn’t equal causation argument. The fixed nature of a streetcar leads to more development. If there is more development then there are more people to ride.

    Your original comment was “People don’t instinctively understand wheeled trolleys and tend not to use them.”

    You then quoted numbers showing how ridership increased when changed from a bus (not necessarily a circulator) to a streetcar. So maybe in 10 years we can convert the circulator to a streetcar to gain even more ridership. But that doesn’t have anything to do with creating a circulator today.

    #549480

    Eugene_C
    Participant

    What about bus rapid transit on High St. similar to Euclid Avenue in Cleveland? That would seem to satisfy both arguments.

    One of the better implementations of a bus calculator I can think of in downtown Denver. It is an articulated, extra-long vehicle with a hybrid drive-train that runs up and down the pedestrian mall. It is very distinct from either the buses or trains and it is heavily used. And being a pedestrian mall there are no tracks for people to twist their ankles in.

    #549481

    heresthecasey
    Participant

    COTA might charge 50 cents for Downtown route

    COTA’s proposed Downtown circulator route might not be free after all. The Central Ohio Transit Authority has budgeted for an expected 50-cent fare to ride the bus that would loop between the Short North and German Village, beginning in May.

    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/01/22/COTA_might_charge_50_cents_for_downtown_circulator.html

    #549482

    DTown
    Participant

    heresthecasey said:
    COTA might charge 50 cents for Downtown route

    COTA’s proposed Downtown circulator route might not be free after all. The Central Ohio Transit Authority has budgeted for an expected 50-cent fare to ride the bus that would loop between the Short North and German Village, beginning in May.

    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/01/22/COTA_might_charge_50_cents_for_downtown_circulator.html

    This is disappointing. The whole point of the circulator is convenience. I live downtown, but if I need to carry change around to hop onto the circulator, then I’m not going to be on that circulator very much. If you absolutely have to charge, you’d better at least have the option of paying with something other than cash. It’s 2014, and I can grab Car2Go or a bike without having to hunt for a quarter.

    If someone is driving in and parking downtown, most aren’t carrying enough change, especially now that they don’t even need it for the meters. It becomes a hassle, and that’s that.

    Seems to me like this alone could doom this project. COTA seems so out of touch. $1M for a few fancy bus stops, yet can’t cover things that are function instead of aesthetic. I hope they change their mind.

    #549483

    Achekov
    Participant

    I think this is a bad idea. Your most progressive cities usually at least have “free zones” in the busiest commercial areas downtown. People hardly carry cash or coins anymore (at least to be able to make exact change a couple of times per day), and casual users who this would appeal to aren’t going to have COTA passes. So, unless the calculator takes credit cards, I call fail. I also hope I’m wrong.

    Look at it this way, the whole idea is to reduce hassle. Now you’re asking people not only to pay at a parking garage or meter (many of which do take credit cards) but they now have to fish out change each time they want to move around between areas.

    I have to think that if the circulator is effective, it will pay for itself in increased commerce. If it does not, then why bother?

    #549484

    InnerCore
    Participant

    DTown said:
    This is disappointing. The whole point of the circulator is convenience. I live downtown, but if I need to carry change around to hop onto the circulator, then I’m not going to be on that circulator very much. If you absolutely have to charge, you’d better at least have the option of paying with something other than cash. It’s 2014, and I can grab Car2Go or a bike without having to hunt for a quarter.

    If someone is driving in and parking downtown, most aren’t carrying enough change, especially now that they don’t even need it for the meters. It becomes a hassle, and that’s that.

    Seems to me like this alone could doom this project. COTA seems so out of touch. $1M for a few fancy bus stops, yet can’t cover things that are function instead of aesthetic. I hope they change their mind.

    I agree, I think you could eventually roll out some sore of payment schedule but I think in the early stages it should be free for a couple of reasons. In the very beginning you want to convert as many people as possible so you should be aiming at convenience as the primary factor.

    As you mention most people aren’t going to have change. Heck most people don’t carry cash and if they do they aren’t carrying change. So you’re going to have people getting on needing to not only pay but possibly get change back. Not only is this inconvienent but it’s also time consuming. The bus should stop, people hop on quickly and it pull right back off again.

    No doubt the people who live in the area will use it often. But I think in the long run if we want to get people acclimated to the ideal of using mass transit we have to make it easy for the folks in the suburbs who are driving in. If you live in Dublin and drive in to SN once maybe twice a month you aren’t going to take the time to get a metro card to make the system convenient. Especially when you are not taking any form of mass transit to get to downtown in the first place.

    However once you get people acclimated to the system and let’s say within a few years we get a real amenity downtown like solid shopping experience I think you could parlay that momentum to either a better option like a streetcar or switch it over to a paid system where at that point it would be more of a necessity.

    #549485
    spfld_expat
    spfld_expat
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    As you mention most people aren’t going to have change. Heck most people don’t carry cash and if they do they aren’t carrying change. So you’re going to have people getting on needing to not only pay but possibly get change back.

    It’s worse than that, InnerCore. If you don’t have a pass, COTA buses only accept exact change[/i][/u].

    I complain about this a lot, but it’s just absurd that in 2014 you can’t pay with a card or pay with anything other than exact change.

    #549486
    spfld_expat
    spfld_expat
    Participant

    Double post, sorry.

    #549487

    peanutnozone
    Participant

    Not that I really have a dog in this fight, but you guys should really get on board with this circulator business. It’s very handy…the one here in B’more is free and takes you pretty much anywhere in the city you’d want to go. Anecdotally, I’ve never ridden the DC one because you have to pay. Eff that. Okay, maybe I’d take it to Georgetown…

    Anyway, highly recommended for Columbus. Make it a simple route so people don’t get confused….Jaeger to 5th seems reasonable. If you get the headways under ten minutes in peak times I think it would definitely spur interest and be a boon to business as well. I’d certainly ride it when I come to visit my hometown.

    #549488

    Mercurius
    Participant

    Can Mayor Coleman take over COTA. I would vote for that.

Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 403 total)

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