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Columbus-Chicago Passenger Rail

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Transportation Columbus-Chicago Passenger Rail

  • This topic has 247 replies, 65 voices, and was last updated 5 years ago by SteveSteve.
Viewing 15 posts - 226 through 240 (of 248 total)
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  • #1018869

    tk3000
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tk3000 wrote:</div>
    It would take around 10 years to build a rail system linking Columbus to Chicago. In 10 years time I may not be living in Columbus aynome, or may not even alive (who knows).

    So are you saying we shouldn’t build it?

    We definitely should build it. It simply should be done in a shorter time frame.

    Obama came to office taunting the need to build a fast rail system across the US, and he made funds available to do so but most of the Republican governors wanted to destroy Obama’s legacy thus they refuse such funds (talk about governing with your constituents best interest in mind.) And even the States that showed interest in building it take generations just to start laying the first tracks. America used to the land where, no much how big, everything could be done; nowadays, it is the place whereby due to chronic constrains, political gridlock, or pure human stupidity, it seems that almost nothing can get done.

    #1033595

    News
    Participant

    Next Steps taken to Continue Evaluation of Columbus-to-Chicago Rail
    August 7, 2014 4:48 pm – Walker Evans

    The Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission (MORPC) along with the City of Columbus and City of Marysville jointly announced today that they will collectively be continuing with the necessary steps to evaluate the feasibility of the Columbus-to-Chicago high speed passenger rail line that was proposed last summer.

    READ MORE: https://www.columbusunderground.com/next-steps-taken-to-continue-evaluation-of-columbus-to-chicago-rail

    #1033606

    columbusmike
    Participant

    Great news, but just get the thing finished already!

    #1033609

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    Great news, but just get the thing finished already!

    Meh. All they can do is “evaluate feasibility” on a perpetual basis until someone high up in the state or federal government gives the green light.

    Keep dreaming. I mean, I’d desperately love to see it happen, but I look at our so-called leaders and realize it’s not happening anytime soon.

    #1033633
    King Gambrinus
    King Gambrinus
    Participant

    I think this is an awesome idea, but it has to be cheaper than air travel to make any sense, if I could fly and get there faster for cheaper than why wouldn’t I just do that.

    I saw this first hand last year on an east coast trip. I looked at taking the train from NYC to DC thinking it would be cheaper and kind of a cool experience, but for some reason flying was cheaper and faster so I did that.

    Three weeks out I can get a flight to Chicago for $106 on Southwest.

    #1033666

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    I think this is an awesome idea, but it has to be cheaper than air travel to make any sense, if I could fly and get there faster for cheaper than why wouldn’t I just do that.

    I saw this first hand last year on an east coast trip. I looked at taking the train from NYC to DC thinking it would be cheaper and kind of a cool experience, but for some reason flying was cheaper and faster so I did that.

    Federal tax subsidies. They’re all that have actually kept the commercial airline industry afloat. If it hadn’t had them in the first place, commercial air travel quite literally would never have made it off the ground.

    The federal Interstate highway system is actually very similar to air travel in this regard. People take highway travel for granted, but few Americans seem to be aware anymore that the federal government heavily subsidizes Interstate highways, too.

    Congress and the President could easily do the same for high-speed rail, but there’s almost no chance of that happening these days with a bunch of violently ignorant reactionary blockheads in the Republican Party dominating Congress and elsewhere. It’s quite ironic that historical Republicans like Dwight Eisenhower, who sought to build the Interstate system based upon the efficient highway system he saw in Germany as a general during WWII, and Teddy Roosevelt, who supported government regulation and maintenance of trains, would be considered far-left liberals today. Just for trying to build public infrastructure, of all things.

    #1033667
    King Gambrinus
    King Gambrinus
    Participant

    Agreed, I wish we prioritized infrastructure way more than we do now, but you have to look at the best way to spend those public dollars. Amtrack received $1.4 billion in subsidies in 2012 and carried 31.2 million people that year. That’s $44 per trip. In 2008 there were 392 billion trips on highways. In 2007 the CBO says we spent $146 billion to build and operate highways. That’s $0.37 per trip. I got bored of Googling so I didn’t look up air travel. But the point is everything is subsidized to some extent and the goal would be spend public dollars on the items that give you the best return. I’ll admit that highways and air travel have lots of negative externalities in terms of pollution etc. But you can’t mention highways and planes without accepting that rail is heavily subsidized itself and may not always be the best way to spend public dollars.

    I think the rail line to Chicago would be great and something I’d like to use, but if it’s gonna cost $300 a ticket and not even break even, then it doesn’t make sense and I can admit that.

    #1038116

    News
    Participant

    Marysville on board to explore rail service
    By CHRIS BOURNEA
    Sunday August 31, 2014 11:11 PM

    The city of Marysville has joined with a coalition of municipalities and the Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission on an environmental impact study for a high-speed passenger rail line from Columbus to Chicago.

    In an Aug. 14 report, Marysville Mayor John Gore said the project will help Ohio be more competitive in the global economy.

    READ MORE: http://www.thisweeknews.com/content/stories/marysville/news/2014/08/28/columbus-to-chicago-high-speed-passenger-rail-corridor-marysville-on-board-to-explore-rail-service.html

    #1044159

    trainwreck
    Participant

    Your comparisons aren’t that great because you’re using two different metrics (passengers vs. high way trips [You don’t define this either. What is a high way trip? How many miles is a highway trip? How many passengers comprise a highway trip?]).

    If we look at that subsidies per passenger-mile metric it can be illustrated that highways require vastly more government support than rail.

    1 Passenger mile = 1 passenger x 1 mile traveled

    In 2012 Amtrak logged roughly 6.8 billion passenger-miles.

    In 2012 passenger cars logged roughly 2.8 trillion passenger-miles on highways.

    Secondly it’s necessary to define what it meant by government subsidy. For the purpose of this comparison I’ll consider government subsidy to mean funding by the government to cover operation expenses not covered by revenue raised directly by the mode of transportation.

    Amtrak is unable to cover its operating expenses through ticket sales alone and receives government funding to cover the operating expense short fall. In 2012, Amtrak received about $1.42B USD in subsidies

    Highways are unable to cover their operating expenses through tolls and gasoline taxes alone and also receive government funding to cover the operating expense shortfall. In 2012 this funding amounted to roughly $69.00B USD in subsidies from property taxes & assessments, funding appropriations, and other taxes & fees. In addition they also received funding from government issued bonds (which carry interest costs) but I’ll leave that out.

    Following the calculation [passenger-miles ÷ government subsidy] we can see that:

    In 2012 Amtrak required roughly $4.80 worth of subsidies per passenger mile

    In 2012 Highways required roughly $41.50 worth of subsidies per passenger mile.

    It should also be noted that its estimated that wasted time and fuel due to traffic congestion amounted to roughly $121B USD in 2011, of which a significant portion of that cost is incurred by highways.

    This is not an exhaustive treatment but at the very least it should demonstrate that highways require vastly more funding to cover their operation costs than Amtrak does in terms of subsidies per passenger miles.

    In 2012, 1 passenger required $4.80 worth of government subsidies per 1 mile traveled while 1 passenger required roughly $41.50 worth of government subsidies per 1 mile traveled.

    Sources:

    https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/hf10.cfm#foot4

    http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/345/484/AmtrakFY13-Budget-Comprehensive-Business-Plan-w-appx-052413.pdf


    http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_40.html
    http://mobility.tamu.edu/ums/report/

    #1044160

    OneBagTravel
    Participant

    If that picture actually becomes reality, then I’d love to not only take the train to Chicago but it would allow us to train to NYC.

    #1047887

    tk3000
    Participant

    It is not only about distorted and disconnected metrics that often detractors of fast rail systems come up with, it is more often than not about their bizarre rationales. The large benefits of a fast rail system suitable for a modern and dynamics society are the intangible ones: freedom of choice and degree of freedom of the populous, and alongside these freedoms come amazing benefits to society and civilization as a whole (should one spend 20 hours per week driving with tension and stress while staring at the grass, or should one spend that time in a comfortable train cabin writing the next big best seller, or maybe help to write an amazing piece of code that will leverage the well-being of humanity). Low and behold, time is the most valuable asset that one have.

    As far as cheap air travel goes, it seems that across the board the prices are extremely expensive statistically speaking compared to just about any other country. Personally I could never find any airfare even with 3 months antecipation or more in my regional travel that would a price anywhere close to being acceptable. Moreover, the vast majority of people often have to drive 50 miles to the next airport whereon the airfares is still very high but not as exorbitant as the airport nearby for a trip of 200 miles (one sometimes would prefer to drive the 200 miles by car, instead of flying at all)

    Often, detractors highlight the cost of maintenance of a new rail system… How about the cost of the maintenance of roads and thousands vehicles – each one weighting few tons –- that would then stay inside a garage instead of creating more wear and tear on the roads. How about the cost of maintenance for individual and families with their automobiles which then would drop substantially (often mechanics charge over $100 per hour, or more depending on the complexity of the job), on top of that there is also wear and tear of the vehicle itself with then more frequent maintenance work (oil, fluids, tires, etc); and last but not least a huge depreciation in the value of the vehicles (coupled with lower resale value). Not to mention the billions of dollars sent to Arab countries for an ever growing supply of fuel, that monumental volume of money expended to import fuel from this region of the world creates fortunes over there which often foment and finance extremist groups masterminding new plots against America and America’s Interest abroad (guess has just seized large portions of Iraq). Large part of this money would then stay right here at home creating wealthy and prosperity. Concomitantly, as a direct result in the drop in consumption and thus demand for petrol and its derivative there would be less pressure on the price of fuel and thus lower gas prices at the pump (so even the detractors of the fast rail system would benefit; henceforth, both systems are not mutually exclusive but clearly they are complementary and accessory to each others existence)

    Some republic governors whose administration refused to take the federal money in order to build a modern fast rail mode of transportation argued that they would not get the money given that their roadways was still in a state of disrepair… Well, guess what: such things are unrelated. If one would take federal money to plant flowers on the edging the roadway shoulders — thus beautifying the roadways — then they would be related. They are as unrelated in the similar way that building new runways for airports would be unrelated; and neither are they mutually exclusive in any way, shape, or form. It is really absurd that politician occupying important position in the high sphere and echelon within the mantra of the public administration are capable of such bizarre and grotesque articulation.

    The incumbent governor Kasich refused the federal funds for the project arguing future financial woes. Whenever one incurs in infrastructure projects that benefit millions of people there need to be a certain volume of investments purported by the government. Given that the initial volume of investment is large, the return over the investment is long, and the risk is high; this of project that can only be undertaken by the public entity in the form of the public government whose primary goal is to further the public interest and benefit of the public for now and for the foreseeable future. Besides, it has been the case in the whole civilized and developed world possess much larger and faster rail systems than the one currently proposed to Ohio, maybe Ohio does not belong to the civilized and developed world ( Japan, Germany, etc, possess for a long time a much larger, faster, sophisticated and way more expansive fast rail system than the one currently proposed to Ohio) and thus can not afford to have such facilities available to its population.

    Did you know that the average American pay more in taxes than the average Japanese. So, how come they can have amazing marvels of technology such as the bullet train to further its modern and dynamic society and augment their quality of life; and we can not even afford to have a slightly faster train.

    #1048068

    Patch
    Participant

    Did you know that the average American pay more in taxes than the average Japanese. So, how come they can have amazing marvels of technology such as the bullet train to further its modern and dynamic society and augment their quality of life; and we can not even afford to have a slightly faster train.

    Are you saying they pay more percentage-wise? American’s average gross salary is about $13K more than Japan, so if it is 1-2% more I don’t see it really affecting the actual lifestyle of Americans vs the Japanese.

    In reality, there aren’t faster trains because there is not enough demand for them.

    BTW, how nice is having the 3rd lane open on I-71 between Columbus & Cleveland. Wow.

    #1048092
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    In reality, there aren’t faster trains because there is not enough demand for them.

    But there’s also not enough demand for faster trains because we don’t have them.

    #1048097

    MRipley
    Participant

    1 Passenger mile = 1 passenger x 1 mile traveled

    In 2012 Amtrak logged roughly 6.8 billion passenger-miles.

    In 2012 passenger cars logged roughly 2.8 trillion passenger-miles on highways.

    Curious, car, train, or airplane, how are passenger miles calculated? By passenger capacity or actual numbers of passengers?

    In other words, if a car has a capacity to carry 4 passengers but only has 1 person on board and travels a mile, is that 4 passenger miles or 1?

    #1048171

    bjones7
    Participant

    Looks like MORPC is ready to “Start next phase”. Wonder what the “next phase is” ?

    http://thelantern.com/2014/10/plans-for-train-connecting-columbus-and-chicago-chug-forward/

    I wonder how the $1.29 billion price tag will be funded? By state? Feds? The good news is that its been estimated that this plan will bring in about 6.24 Billion.

Viewing 15 posts - 226 through 240 (of 248 total)

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