Columbus $15 Minimum Wage

[clancy12]

Scioto Tower wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>clancy12 wrote:</div>
Yes, they may be replaced by a machine. That is how it works. Automation is not a new invention. When labor is cheap, you get cheap labor– low productivity– businesses. Then, money can go to higher productivity businesses. We really don’t need 9 million restaurants. The south was way behind the north after the civil war because they had plenty of cheap labor.<br><br>
On the other hand, we need desperately to invest in infrastructure. So, what we need is some federal spending to create jobs.<br><br>
Burger flipping is not the only low wage job. There are jobs like housekeepers or home health aide. Do you want the person taking care of your grandparents to be paid 9 dollars an hour?

Yeah, that’s exactly what we need, the federal government using hard earned tax dollars to create more jobs. Instead of lowering the barriers for business owners to higher more (lower taxes, less regulation).

Could you specify exactly what regulations are holding back these job creators? really, I would like to know.
You know, if the government created some jobs that would create demand and help business owners too.

[clancy12]

And why is it better to put this stuff off? When will it be feasible to fix our infrastructure? It seems like now is a good time.

[Ned23]

clancy12 wrote:

…Could you specify exactly what regulations are holding back these job creators? really, I would like to know.<br>
You know, if the government created some jobs that would create demand and help business owners too.

Oh, you know, things like food safety regulations, worker safety regulations, fire safety regulations, stuff like that. Those all raise the cost of doing business. If we didn’t have to make workplaces so safe to work in and didn’t require all sorts of sprinkler systems and extra exits in case of fires, and if we didn’t always keep inspecting food and making them throw out so much bad food or make them spend money to exterminate rats and cockroaches, that would really lower the cost of creating jobs.

[Cbussmallbiz]

I feel like I’m listening to an argument about business between an Etsy entrepreneur and a EBay store proprietor.

Ever own a business with over 10 employees?

Ever own a business about to go past 50?

Do you know what the Ohio CAT tax is?
Why is the response to saying regulation is a problem effecting job creation a freak out saying position is advocating returning us to sweat shops?

What happens to a job that costs 15 dollars an hour due to regulation that doesn’t cover its cost with revenue?

It goes away.

[Posole]

ADA handicap requirements are a big cost. Wheel chair ramps and redesigned bathrooms can add 10s of thousands of dollars to the cost of opening a new business, particularly in an older building.

[Posole]

ADA handicap requirements are a big cost. Wheel chair ramps and redesigned bathrooms can add 10s of thousands of dollars to the cost of opening a new business, particularly in an older building.

Cbussmallbiz wrote:

What happens to a job that costs 15 dollars an hour due to regulation that doesn’t cover its cost with revenue?
It goes away.

But don’t they have these arguments every time there’s a minimum wage increase? And don’t employment levels eventually get back to the same 4-5% unemployment every time? $15 is a lot but maybe some raise is in order? Maybe if they had been raising a little bit every few years all along, then we would never have gotten to this $15 benchmark?

[Cbussmallbiz]

Posole wrote:

ADA handicap requirements are a big cost. Wheel chair ramps and redesigned bathrooms can add 10s of thousands of dollars to the cost of opening a new business, particularly in an older building.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Cbussmallbiz wrote:</div>
What happens to a job that costs 15 dollars an hour due to regulation that doesn’t cover its cost with revenue?<br>
It goes away.

But don’t they have these arguments every time there’s a minimum wage increase? And don’t employment levels eventually get back to the same 4-5% unemployment every time? $15 is a lot but maybe some raise is in order? Maybe if they had been raising a little bit every few years all along, then we would never have gotten to this $15 benchmark?

I think it’s a valid point. Why have there not been more incremental attempts? And now at the end of another pointless 8 year term there is a movement to raise to 15. So the asshats didn’t care for 8 years…. Only when it becomes a way to drive voters to the poll.

[Cbussmallbiz]

A 15 dollar minimum wage certainly will lower already dangerously low teenage employement. So great we can have a work force of young people even more unemployable and clueless about employement norms than already.

If you are over 30 years old and only qualified for minimum wage jobs perhaps your the problem and not greedy business people.

[stechs02]

There is a lot of ignorance in this discussion. Let me try to explain how all of this liberal thinking is killing private sector job growth and small businesses and creating monopolies…

Strike 1: Obama care increases the price of health care for businesses. Large businesses rely more on part time workers or merge with other large businesses to lessen the impact. Small businesses reduce staff. Less job opportunities, higher unemployment, higher inflation due to less competition, tougher private sector environment for small businesses and start ups.

Strike 2: Raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Large businesses merge further to make this affordable and increase their continuous improvement efforts to require less associates to do the same job. Still cost millions in the short term and slows down job growth. Small businesses can’t afford the wage increase and are given two options, raise prices or go bankrupt. Loss of jobs and competition. Less job opportunities, higher unemployment, higher inflation, impossible private sector environment for small businesses and start ups.

Strike 3: FLSA change from $23,660 to $50,440. Companies are now forced to pay overtime to all associates making less than $50,440. Companies now have to spend millions on paying overtime for roles that are exempt based on their responsibilities. Cost large companies millions so more mergers happen or companies reduce staff. Small businesses should just give up at this point. Less job opportunities, higher unemployment, higher inflation due to less competition, impossible private sector environment for small businesses and start ups.

In long story short, we are left with HUGE companies that can navigate all these changes, less competition in the workplace which increases inflation, and less jobs and job growth. This is costing companies millions already and will only get worse if a minimum wage is implemented and an FLSA change is implemented. We have effectively killed private sector job growth and increased the unemployment rate. If you thought it was a competitive environment already, you haven’t seen anything yet. The folks with high paying jobs will continue to be better off because their jobs are not impacted and they can afford the higher priced goods and the good ole folks who make 30-40-50k a year are going to be crushed due to less competition/higher inflation and job elimination. Way to go liberal thinking. When are we going to start acting like the United States of America and not Europe. Do people pay attention to what is going on over there? It’s not good folks!

[Ned23]

Cbussmallbiz wrote:

I think it’s a valid point. Why have there not been more incremental attempts? And now at the end of another pointless 8 year term there is a movement to raise to 15. So the asshats didn’t care for 8 years…. Only when it becomes a way to drive voters to the poll.

Well, lets think about it. There was an increase in 2009. Then something happened in 2010 and there were no more. What was it?

[spfld_expat]

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[stechs02]

spfld_expat wrote:

…..

This is cute… It is a good thing the unemployment rate doesn’t include discouraged workers or workers who are not looking for a job. Here is an interesting fact, 33% of Americans 16 or over are not participating in the workforce, the highest since 1978. Yeah, the unemployment rate looks good, but that is because we created an environment where sitting on your butt is more lucrative than getting a job. Raising the minimum wage sounds like a good idea to get people back to work instead of on dependencies but employers aren’t going to pay the $15 which will result in more people jobless. The real question becomes how long until we run out of other peoples money? With a shrinking workforce, who is going to pay all those dependencies?

Here is another one, the US median income of $53,657 is far below what it was in 1999. So we have higher inflation but not higher wages? Why do you think that is? Because the private sector environment squeezed out small businesses and there is less competition for goods and services which results in higher prices. So, in summary, we have higher prices, people earning less and a shrinking workforce because our dependencies are more lucrative then getting a job… I think the unemployment rate it pretty much obsolete in this discussion.

[wygand]

There have been multiple references in the last few posts about how the inflation rate is high(looking at you stechs02). This just isn’t true, the inflation rate is at historic lows, 0.9% as of April 2016.

You seem to be twisting statistics to fit your argument.

[spfld_expat]

stechs02 wrote:

Here is an interesting fact, 33% of Americans 16 or over are not participating in the workforce, the highest since 1978.

Baby boomers are retiring.

[zp945]

Cbussmallbiz wrote:

I feel like I’m listening to an argument about business between an Etsy entrepreneur and a EBay store proprietor.

Ever own a business with over 10 employees?

Ever own a business about to go past 50?

Do you know what the Ohio CAT tax is?<br>
Why is the response to saying regulation is a problem effecting job creation a freak out saying position is advocating returning us to sweat shops?

What happens to a job that costs 15 dollars an hour due to regulation that doesn’t cover its cost with revenue?

It goes away.

stechs02 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>spfld_expat wrote:</div>
…..

This is cute… It is a good thing the unemployment rate doesn’t include discouraged workers or workers who are not looking for a job. Here is an interesting fact, 33% of Americans 16 or over are not participating in the workforce, the highest since 1978. Yeah, the unemployment rate looks good, but that is because we created an environment where sitting on your butt is more lucrative than getting a job. Raising the minimum wage sounds like a good idea to get people back to work instead of on dependencies but employers aren’t going to pay the $15 which will result in more people jobless. The real question becomes how long until we run out of other peoples money? With a shrinking workforce, who is going to pay all those dependencies?

Here is another one, the US median income of $53,657 is far below what it was in 1999. So we have higher inflation but not higher wages? Why do you think that is? Because the private sector environment squeezed out small businesses and there is less competition for goods and services which results in higher prices. So, in summary, we have higher prices, people earning less and a shrinking workforce because our dependencies are more lucrative then getting a job… I think the unemployment rate it pretty much obsolete in this discussion.

There are times that I wish I didn’t currently own a business that employees way more than 10 employees and has been over 50, so that I could respond to these posts without retribution to my company. I also come from a family of entrepreneurs that have started a lot of companies and employed a lot of people. Our political views are varied. This is a nuanced issue that can’t be dumbed down to one side or the other. There will be winners and losers, like in all fights, the question is what gives us the most winners?

Why did I quote you two specifically? I mean, the CAT tax? $150 on $1,000,000? No one is not starting a business because of that. I would argue that there are a LOT of ticky tack fees on businesses that most people don’t have to pay, CAT tax included. Those do add up and it should be looked at, but some of those are alarm user licenses and fire licenses, if I get robbed or my business is on fire, I’d like the police and fire department to show up. Some of those are protection licenses for the public, like the health department and the liquor control department. Do I like paying these fees as a business owner? Not really. Do they sometimes come at inopportune times cash flow wise? Yes. Do I think the general public enjoys a benefit from them? Yes.

And I quoted you, steches02, because I opened my business in the fall of 2008. The economy sucked and we struggled for a time, but I got a lot of good employees that should have been working somewhere else but couldn’t. As the economy got better and the unemployment rate dropped my ability to hire low wage employees, that were quality employees, also dropped. I understand this might be an argument against a higher minimum wage, but again, it’s more nuanced than that. We didn’t lose all those good workers because they dropped out of the work force. We lost them because they got better jobs. Which is good for all of us. Columbus’ unemployment rate is less than 4%. Most people that want a job and are willing to do what they can to get one, have a job. Sure, outliers exist. Low unemployment is a good thing.

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