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Cleveland's beautiful, modern apartment proposal for downtown

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Development Cleveland's beautiful, modern apartment proposal for downtown

This topic contains 42 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  wpcc88 2 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 43 total)
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    Posts
  • #1103253
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    Linky.

    Their plan, which will get its first public airing at the Cleveland City Planning Commission today, is almost all apartments, with tucked-in parking and retail lining the streets. It’s split into four bite-sized phases, which might take five years to build between West Third and West Sixth streets and Superior and St. Clair avenues.

    And the proposal dovetails with the national growth of downtown living and steady demand for rental housing in the core of Cleveland, where more than 13,000 people now live and rising rents are making new construction more feasible.

    “We’ve done a lot of analytics around multifamily, and we believe there’s a lot of depth to the market,” said Walsh, who was regional president at Huntington Bank until early last year, when he left to form an investment firm called Citymark Capital.

    The site, just shy of 6 acres, includes land the Ashers have owned for years and parcels they’ve recently bought, tied up through purchase agreements or are negotiating to buy through their joint venture with Walsh. The developers don’t control – and expect to work around – the Stark Enterprises building on West Third.

    #1103261

    RellekOTE
    Participant

    Absolutely stunning. And makes the Gay & High development (among others) just that much more disappointing…

    #1103265
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    Plucked from the comments on the article–i.e., this may not be remotely accurate–here’s what Cleveland’s got in the works downtown:

    May Co – 300 units
    925 Euclid 500 units
    nuCLEus – 500 units
    lakefront plan – 1,000 units
    flats III and IV – 700 units
    Standard building – 295 units
    Leader building – 225 units
    Garfield – 128 units
    515 Euclid – 200 units
    Halle Building – 230 units
    Warehouse plan – 1200 units.

    If their developers can build at such scale–and just check out some of the architecture on a few of these plans–why can’t Cbus’?

    Parking is the primary issue we’ve seen tossed about. So let’s talk to the folks in Cleveland, where the price point can’t be terribly different, and figure out how to “make the math work.”

    #1103266

    Mike88
    Participant

    Absolutely stunning. And makes the Gay & High development (among others) just that much more disappointing…

    Well put.

    Good for Cleveland, that is an excellent looking Project.

    #1103267
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Absolutely stunning. And makes the Gay & High development (among others) just that much more disappointing…

    I don’t see it as a competition. What’s good for Cleveland is good for Ohio, therefore good for Columbus.

    This one development looks nice, but it doesn’t mean that what’s happening in Columbus is any lesser.

    #1103268
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    Definitely not competition.

    Definitely two cities in different situations with similar end goals.

    But Cleveland’s scale and breadth of architecture is something from which we may be able to gather ideas as our growth continues. And surely, there are things we have done that they can and should learn from, as well.

    #1103269

    jbcmh81
    Participant

    It’s not a competition, but let’s be honest, in almost all cases, Downtown development proposals have been underwhelming for the most part. Demand is there, vacancy rates are historically low and population growth is one of the best in the country… so why do we continuously have to settle for 5-6 stories? And don’t tell me it is about parking, because if we had better developers, they could make it work, and Downtown continues to be parking heaven.

    #1103270
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    It’s not a competition, but let’s be honest, in almost all cases, Downtown development proposals have been underwhelming for the most part.

    I think a lot of people fixate on the ones they don’t like as much… Highpoint, the shortness of the new Edwards development at Gay & High.

    But in reality, I think a lot of the Downtown development proposals have been great. 250 High, Two25, LeVeque renovations, The Atlas, Neighborhood Launch, LC Riversouth, The Hilton, The Julian, etc…

    #1103271
    MichaelC
    MichaelC
    Participant

    No doubt, many if not most of the downtown CBus developments are great. So let’s key in on the scale/parking component.

    What are Cleveland developers doing to make the math work for large-scale residential projects that Columbus developers aren’t?

    #1103279

    WJT
    Participant

    It’s not a competition, but let’s be honest, in almost all cases, Downtown development proposals have been underwhelming for the most part. Demand is there, vacancy rates are historically low and population growth is one of the best in the country… so why do we continuously have to settle for 5-6 stories? And don’t tell me it is about parking, because if we had better developers, they could make it work, and Downtown continues to be parking heaven.

    We went over this before over two months ago: https://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/why-cant-columbus-think-biggerdenser-when-it-comes-to-downtown-development

    Pretty much the same discussion, just brought up again due to this development in Cleveland.

    What are Cleveland developers doing to make the math work for large-scale residential projects that Columbus developers aren’t?

    …and the developers in other cities in the same league as Columbus(or smaller even).

    #1103280
    Josh Lapp
    Josh Lapp
    Participant

    Awesome development, hope that it comes to fruition.

    Its apples and oranges to compare whats happening in Downtown CLE to Cbus. Development and growth have been concentrated in Downtown CLE for years in the same way that growth here has been concentrated in SN, German Village, Grandview, Campus ect.

    Cleveland also had a great building stock that could easily be converted to residential, not the case in Columbus.

    #1103287
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Cleveland also had a great building stock that could easily be converted to residential, not the case in Columbus.

    That’s true to some extent. Though I’d point out that Cleveland was not immune to the “urban renewal” policies of the mid-20th century that saw the demolition of a lot of Downtown buildings in favor of creating massive parking craters, some of which still exist today:

    http://www.streetsblog.net/2013/02/26/wooing-suburban-drivers-with-cheap-parking-a-losing-strategy-for-cities/

    #1103297

    CbusIslander
    Participant

    Has anyone made a list of the proposed/under construction list of apartments/condos in the Downtown area as of today similar to that Cleveland comment above?

    You will probably see a similar list to Cleveland just more smaller scale projects. Some on that Cleveland list will take years to get to completion (if getting built at all). Columbus is doing right with its Downtown development, correct scale and costs which will actually be able to have shovels in the ground. Downtown Columbus has such a large area to work with, but in time the larger scale projects will come in.

    Columbus has much larger rental units in construction across the metro than Cleveland has currently. Must look at the grander picture here.

    #1103300

    OneBagTravel
    Participant

    Parking lots should be illegal in urban areas. So annoying.

    #1103301
    King Gambrinus
    King Gambrinus
    Participant

    Plucked from the comments on the article–i.e., this may not be remotely accurate–here’s what Cleveland’s got in the works downtown:

    May Co – 300 units<br>
    925 Euclid 500 units<br>
    nuCLEus – 500 units<br>
    lakefront plan – 1,000 units<br>
    flats III and IV – 700 units<br>
    Standard building – 295 units<br>
    Leader building – 225 units<br>
    Garfield – 128 units<br>
    515 Euclid – 200 units<br>
    Halle Building – 230 units<br>
    Warehouse plan – 1200 units.

    If their developers can build at such scale–and just check out some of the architecture on a few of these plans–why can’t Cbus’?

    Parking is the primary issue we’ve seen tossed about. So let’s talk to the folks in Cleveland, where the price point can’t be terribly different, and figure out how to “make the math work.”

    Only the flats, lakefront, NuCLEus, and this warehouse plan are new builds. Everything else is converting historic office buildings into apartments using historic tax credits.

    When it was just converting older buildings I better understood the differences between Cleveland development vs. Columbus development. But it seems they’ve run out of historic buildings and are now developing parking lots. In my mind that type of building is much more comparable to what’s happening in Columbus. We didn’t have many large underutilized old office buildings, but do have a plethora of parking lots. Except the Cleveland developments are now bigger and more forward thinking. I don’t think we can point the finger at parking either. Not with NuCLEus and this warehouse plan both incorporating huge garages.

    While this is awesome news for Cleveland and is overall good for the state. We can’t ignore the fact that there’s a competition between the cities. To the extent that they’re able to better attract jobs or young educated people they’re going to win. So whole I don’t think we need to be jealous, if we want to continue the kind of growth we’ve seen (especially in the millennial segment we’ve done well in) we need to be pushing for Columbus to get developments of this style and scale. And stop blaming parking.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 43 total)

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