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Can you be Pro-Life and Pro-Choice at the same time?

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics Can you be Pro-Life and Pro-Choice at the same time?

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 202 total)
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  • #333172
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    agtw31 wrote >>
    if it wasn’t a political issue,the pro-life folks would be still be considerred a religion based sub-culture i.e. Randy Weaver(ruby ridge),David Koresh,Jim Jones,etc.
    now they are considerred part of the religious right,and they won’t stop blowing up women’s clinics,or killing doctors.

    First off, while I am pro-abortion ( Read that again. Yes, that’s what I mean ) it’s unfair to criticize opponents of abortion as extremists. I know anti-abortion types who are also VERY opposed to killing doctors or blowing up clinics.

    Kinda like saying every muslim is a terrorist because some of them strap on suicide vests. Simply not true.

    Second, Randy Weaver wasn’t religiously motivated. Racist? Sure. Set up by the Federal government? Looks that way, considering how much they paid to make the civil suit go away.

    #333173

    I think abortion should be legal up until a certain point. I don’t know exactly when a fetus goes from being a ball of cells into something with a heartbeat but that should mandate a deadline when it can happen. If you have been carrying this baby for 7 months then you should just suck it up and carry it out to full term and put it up for adoption if you don’t want to be responsible for the child.

    Also if a woman is raped she should have full rights of not having to have that child as a reminder of what she had to go through.

    The thing I truly hate about politics is that they see issues as 100% black or 100% white when in reality, things are way more complex than that and usually a complicated shade of gray with no simple answer.

    #333174

    agtw31
    Member

    rus wrote >>

    agtw31 wrote >>
    if it wasn’t a political issue,the pro-life folks would be still be considerred a religion based sub-culture i.e. Randy Weaver(ruby ridge),David Koresh,Jim Jones,etc.
    now they are considerred part of the religious right,and they won’t stop blowing up women’s clinics,or killing doctors.

    First off, while I am pro-abortion ( Read that again. Yes, that’s what I mean ) it’s unfair to criticize opponents of abortion as extremists. I know anti-abortion types who are also VERY opposed to killing doctors or blowing up clinics.
    Kinda like saying every muslim is a terrorist because some of them strap on suicide vests. Simply not true.
    Second, Randy Weaver wasn’t religiously motivated. Racist? Sure. Set up by the Federal government? Looks that way, considering how much they paid to make the civil suit go away.

    good point about all of them not being homicidal maniacs,,but the families of the people killed by members of their movement didnt get a condolence card from Operation Rescue,either.

    as for Randy Weaver,i’ve read books about him on both sides of the debate.bottom line,what happened to him and his family was horrible.

    but,everything he believed in was based on a religious conviction that there was going to be a race war in this country.

    i don’t know how much more cocoo for cocoa puffs you can get than that.

    #333175
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    agtw31 wrote >>
    good point about all of them not being homicidal maniacs,,but the families of the people killed by members of their movement didnt get a condolence card from Operation Rescue,either.
    as for Randy Weaver,i’ve read books about him on both sides of the debate.bottom line,what happened to him and his family was horrible.
    but,everything he believed in was based on a religious conviction that there was going to be a race war in this country.
    i don’t know how much more cocoo for cocoa puffs you can get than that.

    I’d say the anti-abortion types reaction to clinic bombings and killing doctors ranges from shock and horror ( vast majority ), a tacit acceptance akin to “evil people receive evil” … not actual support for the act but not condemnation ( small minority ) to cheering ( tiny lunatic fringe ).

    I’m not saying Weaver was a paragon of sanity, mind you… but if by ‘Religious’ you’re referring to the Christian Identity movement, note that it’s a lot less Christian than a cover for racist views.

    #333176

    Schoolboy
    Participant

    somertimeoh wrote >>
    Yes, personally abortion is not an option that fits with my values, but my values are not the moral compass for the world so I am pro-choice. Really, I don’t even think it should be something the government has a say in PERIOD so I’d prefer to not even have to take a political stance on the subject.
    ETA: Just because of what you said about not having a choice, I do think we’re going to see father’s rights become a big hot button issue in this decade. That whole Sean Goldman issue opened a big can of worms that I think does deserve some attention. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

    Ditto :)

    I find partial birth abortions sickening however. Not sure how that one is legal. If say a friend of the mother were to perform this same act on a baby partially born, there isn’t a doubt in my mind that everyone involved would be convicted of murder in any court. Just because a doctor does it, doesn’t mean it right.

    #333177

    agtw31
    Member

    rus wrote >>

    agtw31 wrote >>
    good point about all of them not being homicidal maniacs,,but the families of the people killed by members of their movement didnt get a condolence card from Operation Rescue,either.
    as for Randy Weaver,i’ve read books about him on both sides of the debate.bottom line,what happened to him and his family was horrible.
    but,everything he believed in was based on a religious conviction that there was going to be a race war in this country.
    i don’t know how much more cocoo for cocoa puffs you can get than that.

    I’d say the anti-abortion types reaction to clinic bombings and killing doctors ranges from shock and horror ( vast majority ), a tacit acceptance akin to “evil people receive evil” … not actual support for the act but not condemnation ( small minority ) to cheering ( tiny lunatic fringe ).
    I’m not saying Weaver was a paragon of sanity, mind you… but if by ‘Religious’ you’re referring to the Christian Identity movement, note that it’s a lot less Christian than a cover for racist views.

    not condemning an act of murder is acceptance and encouragement of the act.

    good point about Weaver,he did try to legitimize racist views with religion.

    not trying to derail the topic,just trying to point out some of the origins of politics getting involved.

    #333178

    Schoolboy wrote >>

    somertimeoh wrote >>
    Yes, personally abortion is not an option that fits with my values, but my values are not the moral compass for the world so I am pro-choice. Really, I don’t even think it should be something the government has a say in PERIOD so I’d prefer to not even have to take a political stance on the subject.
    ETA: Just because of what you said about not having a choice, I do think we’re going to see father’s rights become a big hot button issue in this decade. That whole Sean Goldman issue opened a big can of worms that I think does deserve some attention. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

    Ditto :)
    I find partial birth abortions sickening however. Not sure how that one is legal. If say a friend of the mother were to perform this same act on a baby partially born, there isn’t a doubt in my mind that everyone involved would be convicted of murder in any court. Just because a doctor does it, doesn’t mean it right.

    “partial birth abortion” is a tragic misnomer. it’s not abortion at all; it’s actually called dilation and extraction. it’s almost always performed on fetuses that will not survive outside of the womb. women who have to undergo the process so late in their pregnancies are taking on a horrible, horrible pain. most of them wanted to keep their babies, but know that giving birth will either harm them or end in the child’s immediate death anyway.

    i think that the “partial birth” myth has been created by extreme groups to trick the public into thinking it is something that it’s not. personally my heart goes out to any woman who has to deal with this pain.

    #333179

    I never understood this concept, of believing that abortion is wrong but that it should be legal. One either believes that a fetus is a unique life (with rights), or it is part of the woman that she can have excised and discarded if she chooses.

    #333180

    Oh, and I don’t think that a woman has ever been forced to keep a baby from an unwanted pregnancy. There’s this wonderful thing called ADOPTION. It’s not the Cider House Rules where unwanted kids waste away in an institution somewhere. People are so desperate to adopt babies that even the most difficult cases with severe medical problems find homes.

    #333181

    greenhouse1014
    Participant

    rus wrote >>

    agtw31 wrote >>
    if it wasn’t a political issue,the pro-life folks would be still be considerred a religion based sub-culture i.e. Randy Weaver(ruby ridge),David Koresh,Jim Jones,etc.
    now they are considerred part of the religious right,and they won’t stop blowing up women’s clinics,or killing doctors.

    First off, while I am pro-abortion ( Read that again. Yes, that’s what I mean ) it’s unfair to criticize opponents of abortion as extremists. I know anti-abortion types who are also VERY opposed to killing doctors or blowing up clinics.
    Kinda like saying every muslim is a terrorist because some of them strap on suicide vests. Simply not true.
    Second, Randy Weaver wasn’t religiously motivated. Racist? Sure. Set up by the Federal government? Looks that way, considering how much they paid to make the civil suit go away.

    Are you pro-abortion like, Hey thats a great idea and everybody should do it or pro=abortion like it should be legal. If the second, then thats really pro-choice. If the first, well, I worry about you.

    #333182

    somertimeoh
    Participant

    Joseph L. Harris wrote >>
    Oh, and I don’t think that a woman has ever been forced to keep a baby from an unwanted pregnancy. There’s this wonderful thing called ADOPTION. It’s not the Cider House Rules where unwanted kids waste away in an institution somewhere. People are so desperate to adopt babies that even the most difficult cases with severe medical problems find homes.

    There are consequences to adoption that you will never understand. I’m not trying to be condescending when I say that, just realistic. It IS a gift beyond comprehension, but it is not an easy, be-all and end-all solution like so many want to claim it is. And there ARE way too many children wasting away in institutions somewhere because most of those couples who claim to want children so bad they’re willing to wait YEARS to get one only want babies. Where’s the humanity in that?

    #333183

    SusanB
    Participant

    My step sister had to travel to another state to get a “partial birth abortion” because her baby had no brain and possibly would have damaged her health and ability to have other children if carried to term. She desperately wanted the child but was told it had 0% of survival after birth. Sometimes it is a necessary procedure and it was crazy that she had to travel in her condition.

    #333184

    TaraK
    Participant

    somertimeoh wrote >>

    Joseph L. Harris wrote >>
    Oh, and I don’t think that a woman has ever been forced to keep a baby from an unwanted pregnancy. There’s this wonderful thing called ADOPTION. It’s not the Cider House Rules where unwanted kids waste away in an institution somewhere. People are so desperate to adopt babies that even the most difficult cases with severe medical problems find homes.

    There are consequences to adoption that you will never understand. I’m not trying to be condescending when I say that, just realistic. It IS a gift beyond comprehension, but it is not an easy, be-all and end-all solution like so many want to claim it is. And there ARE way too many children wasting away in institutions somewhere because most of those couples who claim to want children so bad they’re willing to wait YEARS to get one only want babies. Where’s the humanity in that?

    Exactly. I hate when I hear people talk about how traumatizing abortion can be with the implication that giving a child up for adoption is easy and feels good, you know, like giving someone a birthday gift. I’d encourage them to read The Girls Who Went Away.[/url] If people want to surrender children for adoption, that choice should NOT be done based on the assumption that it’s the emotionally easier route for all.

    #333185

    Schoolboy
    Participant

    sugarplumclarey wrote >>

    Schoolboy wrote >>

    somertimeoh wrote >>
    Yes, personally abortion is not an option that fits with my values, but my values are not the moral compass for the world so I am pro-choice. Really, I don’t even think it should be something the government has a say in PERIOD so I’d prefer to not even have to take a political stance on the subject.
    ETA: Just because of what you said about not having a choice, I do think we’re going to see father’s rights become a big hot button issue in this decade. That whole Sean Goldman issue opened a big can of worms that I think does deserve some attention. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

    Ditto :)
    I find partial birth abortions sickening however. Not sure how that one is legal. If say a friend of the mother were to perform this same act on a baby partially born, there isn’t a doubt in my mind that everyone involved would be convicted of murder in any court. Just because a doctor does it, doesn’t mean it right.

    “partial birth abortion” is a tragic misnomer. it’s not abortion at all; it’s actually called dilation and extraction. it’s almost always performed on fetuses that will not survive outside of the womb. women who have to undergo the process so late in their pregnancies are taking on a horrible, horrible pain. most of them wanted to keep their babies, but know that giving birth will either harm them or end in the child’s immediate death anyway.
    i think that the “partial birth” myth has been created by extreme groups to trick the public into thinking it is something that it’s not. personally my heart goes out to any woman who has to deal with this pain.

    interesting. this has given me something to further research. i just remember a very graphic news article in the dispatch that i had read once a few years ago, so long ago that i’m fairly certain that clinton was still in office, describing partial birth abortion and a doctor that performed them. the article implied this was being used more for another form of abortion rather than for mainly medical cases. when it comes to medical purposes, i have always been for abortion. i can’t imagine the pain someone has to go through in order to make this decision. once at a church event i attended with with a friend i made the mistake of making that statement. an elderly woman nearby immediately attacked me. the only thing i remember was her saying “god never does anything to a person that they can’t handle”. so we began a debate where she basically said that if the woman were to die due to the birth it was ok because it was god’s will, yet it was ok for her to take 6 different medications to keep her alive because it was an opportunity presented by god. it made absolutely no sense to me how the two were different.

    #333186

    StowCbusCleveland
    Participant

    Joseph L. Harris wrote >>
    I never understood this concept, of believing that abortion is wrong but that it should be legal. One either believes that a fetus is a unique life (with rights), or it is part of the woman that she can have excised and discarded if she chooses.

    I agree 100%.

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