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Bustling Urban Neighborhoods Create Parking Tension

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Transportation Bustling Urban Neighborhoods Create Parking Tension

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 212 total)
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  • #546390
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    rus said:
    … in a meaningful way

    So, an arbitrary number then.

    #546391

    joev
    Participant

    Walker said:
    So, an arbitrary number then.

    You know enough to realize it’s not viable until rus would do it himself.

    #546392

    InnerCore
    Participant

    I think this is a great quote:

    “People expect to drive, you know, five blocks down to go to the grocery store, or drive to High Street five blocks away, get a parking space in front of their house. These neighborhoods can’t be treated like a suburban apartment complex anymore. And people need to learn how to live in an urban space.”

    But part of the problem is that if you want people to treat it like an urban place then the city has to treat it like an urban place. The first issue obviously being transportation. A street car line that could move people up and down High st. would allow people to park at centralized areas away and then simply hop on and off where they needed.

    Which brings me to my next issue which is zoning. Current zoning basically pushes all the commercial up and down High st. instead of allowing it to integrate into the surrounding side streets. So currently as the area gets more popular the only place for new commercial will be farther and farther away. You can’t really expect someone to park and walk 5 min to Sushi Rock, then walk 15 min to Brother Drakes, then walk 20 min back to their car.

    But the way it’s set up now you have High st. that is extremely commercial and then if you go half a block east or west you have people living on the ground floor. So they don’t want any of the traffic from High st. coming down the side street they live on.

    #546393

    rory
    Participant

    InnerCore said:

    You can’t really expect someone to park and walk 5 min to Sushi Rock, then walk 15 min to Brother Drakes, then walk 20 min back to their car.

    Why not? What’s wrong with walking in a walkable neighborhood? Twenty minutes isn’t that far and if it really puts you out take a pedicab.

    #546394

    Graybeak
    Participant

    Walker said:
    So, an arbitrary number then.

    Lots of arbitrary numbers in the world.

    I realize people feel passionately about this subject, and many of them post their feelings regularly right here on this very website. But sadly, this is a minority of the overall population.

    I’m not sure of the visitor count, but as much as I tell people how cool the site is, I don’t think we can get every one of the 2,348,495 estimated population of Metro Columbus to visit it.

    Much like we cannot get each of them to give up their cars for the transportation methods mentioned.

    No I don’t have ideas or hard numbers to make this magic happen. I just have an opinion I am also sharing.

    #546395
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Graybeak said:
    Much like we cannot get each of them to give up their cars for the transportation methods mentioned.

    But again… you don’t have have to make each and every person give up their cars for transit to work. That’s a ridiculous assertion.

    A well planned regional infrastructure system is a balance of both automobiles + transit. It’s not an either/or situation, so I don’t know why you and rus (and a small handful of other vocal transit opponents around here) continue to insist that cars need to be “given up”.

    #546396
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    InnerCore said:
    You can’t really expect someone to park and walk 5 min to Sushi Rock, then walk 15 min to Brother Drakes, then walk 20 min back to their car.

    You just described Gallery Hop.

    #546397

    NerosNeptune
    Participant

    InnerCore said:
    I think this is a great quote:

    “People expect to drive, you know, five blocks down to go to the grocery store, or drive to High Street five blocks away, get a parking space in front of their house. These neighborhoods can’t be treated like a suburban apartment complex anymore. And people need to learn how to live in an urban space.”

    But part of the problem is that if you want people to treat it like an urban place then the city has to treat it like an urban place. The first issue obviously being transportation. A street car line that could move people up and down High st. would allow people to park at centralized areas away and then simply hop on and off where they needed.

    The #2 does that right now, unless you mean a free streetcar. In that case, a circulator bus could still do the same job for a lot less cost and be up and running tomorrow.

    To me it all seems to be working just fine. People go to the short north and spend money. People pay a lot to live there. They complain about parking but it’s clearly not enough of an issue to keep them away.

    #546398

    goldenidea
    Participant

    We definitely seem to be in kind of a tween stage of our development that I think we’ll eventually grow out of.

    If we really need more parking in this tween stage, perhaps the significant amount of underutilized parking and vacant lots around some urban neighborhoods could be used while more alternative transit is developed and adopted?

    For example, if you look at a Google satellite view of High St and surrounds in the Short North, there are several lots owned by Columbus Public Schools, churches, the Electrician’s Union, and other private owners that seem to be rarely used at night, especially on weekends. Similarly, the State Library complex has a large lot (~100+ spaces) close to 2nd Ave and 4th St that’s at least accessible to High St (if not on-foot) by shuttle bus, pedicab, or by a valet system. To the north, the Clark Vault Co. holds significant unused lots and land, including one lot that’s even larger than the State lot. In total, there could be 500 or more spaces that sit unused at times of peak parking demand, all scattered very close to or at least at remote but still accessible locations to High St in the Short North.

    Cooperation, planning/coordinating, and liability issues would need to be addressed to access these spaces, but perhaps that’s possible, at least for publically-held lots? For example, wouldn’t the public schools benefit from parking revenue? This could be much cheaper and less detrimental than building more parking garages, at least for now. If we’re in a tween stage, then we may then never need more parking garages or new lots.

    Other urban neighborhoods probably have similar under-used resources. If we were living in a more dense urban setting this kind of underutilized land probably wouldn’t be available.

    #546399

    Graybeak
    Participant

    I am not a transit opponent. I am a pragmatist, and a realist.

    I see so much trumpeting about biking and walking and bussing and training, and how wonderful the world would be if more people do those things and stop driving. And sure, it would be a more wonderful place.

    And that is swell. But I am of the opinion that if enough people want to do that, it will happen, much like in all the cities where it has already occurred. (Much like cities that want to have taxpayer funded sports arenas will vote to make it happen)

    My view is that not enough people in Columbus are interested in these options. Either to have their elected officials do something about it, or do something about it themselves.
    A majority of people seem to want to drive their cars from the suburbs, or other parts of Columbus, to locations that are popular (everyone wants to go where it is popular) and park their cars there.

    And obviously Columbus is trying to move forward with some of these plans.
    The new bike rental system will be great for people who live in the city proper (or drive their cars from the suburbs or other parts of Columbus and park somewhere). I can’t really call it bike share with a straight face.

    The sharrows certainly seem to be a big hit, and I have certainly noticed a severe softening between the All Drivers are Crap / No All Bike Riders are Crap camps with that.

    But until we have can get enough local and perhaps statewide politicians in office who feel the same way, and get a viable mass transit system for everyone, and very popular places have very limited parking, there will be parking tension.

    And again, just because I only have an opinion and don’t have hard numbers for you to back up my opinions, doesn’t make my opinions invalid.

    Or something like that.

    #546400

    Graybeak
    Participant

    NerosNeptune said:
    They complain about parking but it’s clearly not enough of an issue to keep them away.

    I personally haven’t traveled on High Street in that area on a weekend in over two years.

    #546401

    mrsgeedeck
    Participant

    @neros I think the complaints are coming from residents, so…they’re option is to move?

    @goldenidea I think you’re on the right track, but I’ve often thought that people here can be a bit averse to walking more than a block. This can be said for both residents with on street parking as well as visitors (not liking that term). The IV FB page has examples of people who come home to find all the spots full only to choose to sit out in their car for 45 minutes waiting for someone to leave. I’m thinking that even on a Gallery Hop night they’d be able to find parking within two blocks in that time.

    Maybe COTA can install more kiosks to encourage more people to buy bus passes? It’d be pretty convenient for the person who parked by Sushi Rock and walked to Bros Drake, to be able to not have to worry about having cash/change and instead be able to buy a pass from a kiosk and catch the bus back to their car.

    #546402

    joev
    Participant

    Graybeak said:
    I am not a transit opponent. I am a pragmatist, and a realist.

    I see so much trumpeting about biking and walking and bussing and training, and how wonderful the world would be if more people do those things and stop driving. And sure, it would be a more wonderful place.

    And that is swell. But I am of the opinion that if enough people want to do that, it will happen, much like in all the cities where it has already occurred. (Much like cities that want to have taxpayer funded sports arenas will vote to make it happen)

    My view is that not enough people in Columbus are interested in these options. Either to have their elected officials do something about it, or do something about it themselves.
    A majority of people seem to want to drive their cars from the suburbs, or other parts of Columbus, to locations that are popular (everyone wants to go where it is popular) and park their cars there.

    And obviously Columbus is trying to move forward with some of these plans.
    The new bike rental system will be great for people who live in the city proper (or drive their cars from the suburbs or other parts of Columbus and park somewhere). I can’t really call it bike share with a straight face.

    The sharrows certainly seem to be a big hit, and I have certainly noticed a severe softening between the All Drivers are Crap / No All Bike Riders are Crap camps with that.

    But until we have can get enough local and perhaps statewide politicians in office who feel the same way, and get a viable mass transit system for everyone, and very popular places have very limited parking, there will be parking tension.

    And again, just because I only have an opinion and don’t have hard numbers for you to back up my opinions, doesn’t make my opinions invalid.

    Or something like that.

    You don’t think that increasing popularity of popular areas will cause this? People accept alternative when the things they have been doing get too annoying.

    #546403

    InnerCore
    Participant

    rory said:
    Why not? What’s wrong with walking in a walkable neighborhood? Twenty minutes isn’t that far and if it really puts you out take a pedicab.

    I’m a huge proponent of walkable neighborhoods, but that’s not a walkable neighborhood. Most people just aren’t willing to walk that far on a regular basis. Most people are willing to walk about 5 min which is about a quarter of a mile. That trip can be extended up to 15 min for one way trips. So for example most people would walk 5 min to the grocery store and 5 min back but wouldn’t walk 15 min to the grocery store and 15 min back. However most people would walk 15 min to the train station to go to work.

    #546404
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    Walker said:
    So, an arbitrary number then.

    In a sense, yes. I don’t actually care about percentages but instead either:

    a) there’s enough parking available at destinations so complaints are few.
    b) people can get into / out of destinations without worrying about transit options at all.

    Just based on my own observations, considering there’s so much traffic and so many complaints of parking most people are driving, not taking a bus or biking.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 212 total)

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