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Are Ohio Public Employees Over-compensated?

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Politics Are Ohio Public Employees Over-compensated?

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Viewing 15 posts - 331 through 345 (of 363 total)
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  • #427868

    gramarye
    Participant

    joev wrote >>

    gramarye wrote >>

    DavidF wrote >>
    Well according the arguments I’ve seen here, the more we impoverish the average worker, the more we take away, the more we lower the standard of living, the better off we will all be.

    That has never been the argument, and I think you know the argument well enough that this is deliberate disingenuousness at this point. The argument is that the overpaid public sector unions have been getting much better benefits than the private sector at the expense of nonunion private sector members of the public (a far larger number). In other words, their losses are not our losses, they are our gains (because everything we wrest back from them is either more money that remains in our pocket or more money available for other public purposes with more general benefits, such as infrastructure investments), and would serve mostly to move unionized public workers back into parity with the private sector average, not below it.

    p.s. It’s also a fact that unicorns fart rainbows.

    Cite? :-P

    I’d like you to cite any evidence you have that public employees in Ohio are overpaid. Your basic premise is flawed.

    There are obviously millions who disagree. “Overpaid” and “underpaid” are, at the end of the day, matters of perspective. And, as the recent axiom goes, elections have consequences.

    If the state doesn’t have money to fund workers for a program, and it is agreed that the program is no longer needed in light of a budget crisis, that’s one thing. If it wants to drive down costs of labor across the board for all public employees because it would be more convenient to pay less for the same workload from those employees, that’s an issue of fairness. The latter is what’s happening with SB 5.

    To the extent that this is true, the issue of whether the old equilibrium (less work and more pay) or the new one (vice versa, at least relative to the old one) is the more “fair” in that issue of “fairness” is also a matter of perspective. Andrew Hall already posted the exorbitant figures for the amount of tax revenue that would be needed to fund those currently unfunded mandates. How “fair” is that to private businesses (which aren’t in the best of shape themselves) and private individuals (likewise)?

    #427869

    joev
    Participant

    If your argument is based on your view that public employees are overpaid, you need better back-up than “it’s subjective,” because there’s proof in this thread that they’re underpaid.

    Aside from all that, do you think breaking pension promises will help bond ratings? Stupid on so many levels.

    #427870

    DavidF
    Participant

    It’s overt class warfare. The amount of wealth for upper class keeps increasing at an exponential rate. Shared sacrifice is verboten to even talk about. We have only one option. Continue to create more job insecurity, continue to drive more people into bankruptcy, continue to tear down the few jobs in this country that have any kind of security.

    And of course it’s a horrible thing to take a job under the assumption that you might not have to work and worry your entire life. That maybe, just maybe you are allowed to have a few years at the very end to simply enjoy life. Nope, unless you are a ceo, it’s your job, nay your patriotic duty to work for less and less up until the day you die.

    Can’t wait to see the justifications the right comes up for rolling back child labor laws.

    #427871

    Andrew Hall
    Member

    joev wrote >>
    If your argument is based on your view that public employees are overpaid, you need better back-up than “it’s subjective,” because there’s proof in this thread that they’re underpaid.

    You can say that according to some metrics, they receive comparable/less/more payment. But the over/under is a subjective assessment based on the perceived value of the services received.

    There is a large perception – in particular for items like education – that the value received from public sectors employees is far less than the amount paid for same.

    A.

    #427872

    joev
    Participant

    So you’re saying you want public employees to spend time/money demonstrating their actual value? They should get paid whatever the public thinks they should, and if the public is feeling stingy then poorhouse for them?

    #427873

    berdawn
    Member

    House & Senate Dems have filed a lawsuit to allow more people into the Statehouse (now closed due to “safety concerns”)

    #427874

    Antonio
    Member

    lifeliberty wrote >>
    yeah, having job security is a bad thing.

    Which public employee is guaranteed a lifetime job, where is that in the state consitution ?

    #427875

    lifeliberty
    Participant

    None, nowhere that I know of.

    having job security in no way equals “lifetime job”, but it does offer incentive for people to apply and take less pay who otherwise wouldn’t.

    #427876

    Antonio
    Member

    lifeliberty wrote >>
    None, nowhere that I know of.
    having job security in no way equals “lifetime job”, but it does offer incentive for people to apply and take less pay who otherwise wouldn’t.

    And what do they do with it…

    http://www.10tv.com/live/content/teninvestigates/stories/2010/07/09/story-columbus-odot-official-investigated-drunken-driving.html?sid=102

    http://www.10tv.com/live/content/teninvestigates/stories/2011/02/07/story-city-workers-not-doing-jobs.html?sid=102

    #427877

    lifeliberty
    Participant

    the bad apple does spoil the bunch. the stories of people doing their job don’t sell papers. You see the bad apples in most organizations, I don’t care what line of work you are in or if you are union or non-union. citing these examples tells me nothing.

    #427878

    Antonio
    Member

    lifeliberty wrote >>
    the bad apple does spoil the bunch. the stories of people doing their job don’t sell papers. You see the bad apples in most organizations, I don’t care what line of work you are in or if you are union or non-union. citing these examples tells me nothing.

    The big difference non union you can fire them ASAP.

    #427879

    lifeontwowheels
    Participant

    Antonio wrote >>

    lifeliberty wrote >>
    the bad apple does spoil the bunch. the stories of people doing their job don’t sell papers. You see the bad apples in most organizations, I don’t care what line of work you are in or if you are union or non-union. citing these examples tells me nothing.

    The big difference non union you can fire them ASAP.

    Unless your management is hands off and doesn’t give a shit. Or the company pays too little, either in cash or benefits, to attract quality employees for a long period.

    #427880

    gramarye
    Participant

    joev wrote >>
    If your argument is based on your view that public employees are overpaid, you need better back-up than “it’s subjective,” because there’s proof in this thread that they’re underpaid.

    Andrew already provided one significant figure. He also answered with the more on-point answer about “overpaid” and “underpaid” being subjective. Stating that benefits are X, Y, and Z is descriptive. Saying that the sum of X, Y, and Z is too much or too little is a judgment call.

    Why don’t you “prove” that taxes should be raised, since you’ve advocated that in this thread?

    #427881

    lifeliberty
    Participant

    I’ve seen union people fired for many different things, those don’t make the news either. to think they don’t or can’t get fired is immature. again, job security in no way equals lifetime employment.
    I honestly think this discussion is pointless. I don’t see it changing anything or anyone’s opinion about what they think they know. I will say, what you see from the inside is completely different from what is shown on the outside. I would hope people would not be so guilible as to believe what they have been spoonfed, but unfortunately that isn’t what I’ve been shown.
    I do think the bill will pass, and we’ll see what we’ve got to work with after that.

    #427882
    rus
    rus
    Participant

    lifeliberty wrote >>

    I do think the bill will pass, and we’ll see what we’ve got to work with after that.

    That I agree with.

Viewing 15 posts - 331 through 345 (of 363 total)

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