Our City Online

Messageboard - Development

NOTE: You are viewing an archived version of the Columbus Underground forums/messageboard. As of 05/22/16 they have been closed to new comments and replies, but will remain accessible for archived searches and reference. For more information CLICK HERE

A good way to wreck a local economy: build casinos

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Development A good way to wreck a local economy: build casinos

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 56 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1034253
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    Well, Penn National stock dropped from $60 a share to $15 in late 2013.

    …you mean when the 4-1 stock split occurred?

    #1034254

    Schoolboy
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Schoolboy wrote:</div>
    Hollywood is floundering because of…<br>
    A) Location<br>
    B) Very high table minimums<br>
    C) Low payouts<br>
    D) Columbus didn’t want it in the first place aka lack of support

    A B and C alone are reason enough for people like myself who enjoy going to casinos to rarely if ever go there.

    If A were changed, but B, C and D were still present, would that make any difference?

    It would to me and everyone that I know that go to casinos. So yes. Instead we all go up to Cleveland. Among other places depending on what we want to do on the side. Cleveland isn’t my favorite due to the same table minimums either, but it’s 10X better than Columbus due to the location alone.

    The last trip we took was down to Beltera and stayed in a rental house off the Ohio river outside of Warsaw KY. Our main side adventures included boating and fishing. The table minimums there along with the comps are second to none.

    #1034256

    melikecheese
    Participant

    The only reason I have not gone is the table minimums, I know I am going to lose my money, I’d like to lose it slowly.

    I am puzzled by this location issue. People will drive to another city and even another casino that is surrounded by nothing because they don’t like this location? SO weird. If I am going to the casino I am going to be in the building. I could then take Uber to anywhere else I want to go. Would I go more if it was in an entertainment district like the Arena District, sure, but the idea that I won’t go to W Broad for the specific purpose I want to go their for, is weird. It’s like driving to the 16-bit in Cleveland because you think you’ll get mugged on Fourth or don’t like hot dogs.

    But regardless, nothing is wrecked, the area looks nicer already, the empty lots have at least solid, change takes time, and most people wont give it that.

    #1034262

    Schoolboy
    Participant

    The only reason I have not gone is the table minimums, I know I am going to lose my money, I’d like to lose it slowly.

    I am puzzled by this location issue. People will drive to another city and even another casino that is surrounded by nothing because they don’t like this location? SO weird. If I am going to the casino I am going to be in the building. I could then take Uber to anywhere else I want to go. Would I go more if it was in an entertainment district like the Arena District, sure, but the idea that I won’t go to W Broad for the specific purpose I want to go their for, is weird. It’s like driving to the 16-bit in Cleveland because you think you’ll get mugged on Fourth or don’t like hot dogs.

    But regardless, nothing is wrecked, the area looks nicer already, the empty lots have at least solid, change takes time, and most people wont give it that.

    I can agree with all of that, but I/we don’t go to a place with the sole intention of gambling, and only gambling. There has to be more to do, and it has to be close by or offer a shuttle.

    Case in point, Beltara… middle of nowhere yes… but that’s why we went there. To be in the middle of nowhere, have a bon fire, bbq, go fishing and boating, etc… and gamble at night. The casino offered a shuttle pickup to and from. Cleveland’s casino we go for a weekend of dining, bar hopping, and gambling. Everything is right there within walking distance.

    What does the Columbus casino offer us? Sorry for those who live there, but I’m not walking around that neighborhood, and there are too many of us to simply grab a cab to get too and from the casino. Forget that noise. It’s a terrible location, and doesn’t serve our needs.

    #1034266

    robertfoshizzle
    Participant

    I’m still pissed about the casino location being moved when I think about it. As if I didn’t already hate the Dispatch enough.

    #1034267

    Alex Silbajoris
    Participant

    I’m still pissed about the casino location being moved when I think about it. As if I didn’t already hate the Dispatch enough.

    It does seem odd that The Powers didn’t want it as a backup source of income for the arena district. As was cited a few posts above, there’s a spinoff effect for establishments near the casino. With only the Blue Jackets to provide the draw to the AD, that’s a “single point of failure” leaving the AD vulnerable to anything going wrong with the hockey team.

    #1034278

    Graybeak
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>robertfoshizzle wrote:</div>
    I’m still pissed about the casino location being moved when I think about it. As if I didn’t already hate the Dispatch enough.

    It does seem odd that The Powers didn’t want it as a backup source of income for the arena district. As was cited a few posts above, there’s a spinoff effect for establishments near the casino. With only the Blue Jackets to provide the draw to the AD, that’s a “single point of failure” leaving the AD vulnerable to anything going wrong with the hockey team.

    But, they are still getting the money anyway now, so it all worked out.

    #1034385

    InnerCore
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Aaron Marshall wrote:</div>
    I think one of the problems with the Columbus casino–other than the location forced upon them by the Wolfe family and the downtown boys–is that it is totally charmless and cookie-cutter. There is nothing distinctive about it whatsoever.

    The charmless cookie-cutter format was set prior to the relocation. It wouldn’t have looked any different if it were placed in the Arena District.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Aaron Marshall wrote:</div>
    I also think that the racino at Scioto Downs is eating their lunch in terms of slot play. The slot monkeys like high payout rates and freebie giveaways.

    So it sounds like Scioto Downs does well regardless of being the same kind of cookie-cutter charmless slot-machine warehouse style of venue. How does that work that it hurts one place, but doesn’t hurt the other?

    I mean… I can’t tell them apart… can you?

    I think the gripe against it being cookie cutter is more about the location and layout of the building more than the actual decor or the carpet or placement of slot machines. Not only was it built in a suburban location but it was built in a suburban fashion where it’s set back behind a sea parking where you basically have only the option to drive and once you are there it doesn’t create any comfortable street presence where you would want to walk to anything else. I can definitely tell the difference between this:

    And this:

    Or this:

    Having it downtown would have allowed it to act as more of an entertainment center than just a casino. Which is what I think the article misses.

    Affluent and educated people visit casinos less often than poorer people do for the same reasons that they smoke less and drink less and weigh less.

    Affluent and educated people are also flocking back to urban areas to live/eat/play. You’re not going to attract these people by building a casino where they don’t want to go with nothing else to do but gamble. H

    The impact of casinos on neighboring property values is “unambiguously negative,” according to the economists at the National Association of Realtors. Casinos don’t encourage non-gaming businesses to open nearby, because the people who most often visit casinos do not wander out to visit other shops and businesses. A casino is not like a movie theater or a sports stadium, offering a time-limited amusement. It is designed to be an all-absorbing environment that does not release its customers until they have exhausted their money.

    Of course you’re not going to wander out of a suburban, hidden behind a sea of parking casino and go shopping or visit another restaurant when there isn’t another restaurant or shop around to walk to. Am I going to eat at any nearby restaurants if I visit Hollywood casino, of course not, because there isn’t anything there. Contrast that with an AD location and I’m probably going to eat somewhere worthwhile in SN.

    #1034415

    robertfoshizzle
    Participant

    The location of our casino is flat-out embarrassing. One of the biggest complaints and stereotypes (fair or not) I hear about our city is that it’s too suburban. We get a chance to put a casino in an urban entertainment district, and what happens? People bitch about it and instead it gets built on a giant parking lot next to a dead mall off of I-270. Of course, it’s far too late for anything to be done about it, and I’m wasting my time complaining.

    #1034416

    Ned23
    Participant

    It does seem odd that The Powers didn’t want it as a backup source of income for the arena district. As was cited a few posts above, there’s a spinoff effect for establishments near the casino. With only the Blue Jackets to provide the draw to the AD, that’s a “single point of failure” leaving the AD vulnerable to anything going wrong with the hockey team.

    This article asserts that the casino would not have contributed much of any income to the arena district. All it would have done is consume parking spaces. People go in, gamble, and leave when they’re out of money and no mood to spend. They buy drinks in the casino so they don’t have to leave the slot machines. Drinks are usually cheap in casinos for that reason.

    Sometimes shopping works near a casino. One of the PA casinos built a mall next door, so that the non-gambling spouses can go shopping leave the gambler to their poker chips.

    #1034418
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Having it downtown would have allowed it to act as more of an entertainment center than just a casino. Which is what I think the article misses.

    False. In October 2009, it was reported that the Arena District Casino would be branded as a Hollywood Casino and would be a single-story building with attached garage, which is the exact same suburban-style format that was constructed on the West Side:

    http://www.columbusunderground.com/proposed-casino-to-be-branded-as-hollywood-casino

    There were never any plans to build an urban casino in Columbus with larger entertainment venue options. Cleveland and Cincinnati were getting those types of casinos while Columbus and Toledo were getting the suburban-style format:

    http://www.hollywoodcasinotoledo.com/About%20Us

    That was one of the reasons that supporters of the relocation did not want it taking up Downtown real estate.

    #1034428

    drew
    Participant

    cited a few posts above, there’s a spinoff effect for establishments near the casino. With only the Blue Jackets to provide the draw to the AD, that’s a “single point of failure” leaving the AD vulnerable to anything going wrong with the hockey team.

    I don’t see that at all. There’s the ball park, the LC music venue, and a wide variety of corporate offices and headquarters in the Arena District, not to mention the Park St. strip and other restaurants, bars, and the like. Hell, the North Market would be considered a part of the AD, wouldn’t it? Plenty of high-density residential buildings, too. Questions about the viability/financing of the hockey arena are beyond my pay grade, but it isn’t anything close to a single point of failure for the district.

    A separate thought – I have always been astounded by the idea that a casino would be any sort of significant financial boon to whatever neighborhood it landed in. I have no objections to gambling, morally or otherwise, but I could never wrap my head around the idea that a casino had more to give than it takes. That’s just not the casino business model. Hollywood Casino is making a profit – not a big one, but one nonetheless – and I drive by it frequently enough to see that the parking lots are mostly full. It pulls plenty of people, but hasn’t done a damned thing to spur on development outside of its property lines. It won’t – it exists to drain its customers of the money they’d otherwise use elsewhere, and is designed to give its customers no reason to leave its premises. On balance its customers leave with less money than they went in with – this is not in dispute, is it? – and on balance they don’t have that much to start with, demographically speaking.

    #1034429

    InnerCore
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>InnerCore wrote:</div>
    Having it downtown would have allowed it to act as more of an entertainment center than just a casino. Which is what I think the article misses.

    False. In October 2009, it was reported that the Arena District Casino would be branded as a Hollywood Casino and would be a single-story building with attached garage, which is the exact same suburban-style format that was constructed on the West Side:

    http://www.columbusunderground.com/proposed-casino-to-be-branded-as-hollywood-casino

    There were never any plans to build an urban casino in Columbus with larger entertainment venue options. Cleveland and Cincinnati were getting those types of casinos while Columbus and Toledo were getting the suburban-style format:

    http://www.hollywoodcasinotoledo.com/About%20Us

    That was one of the reasons that supporters of the relocation did not want it taking up Downtown real estate.

    I’m not really arguing that Walker. You seem to think that Urban means multiple stories but Urban just means location. The Cincinnati Horseshoe is primarily a single story with a garage. The main issues is that Columbus Hollywood 1) it’s set back behind a sea of parking making it less walkable and 2) it’s in a suburban location. If you moved the Cincinnati Horseshoe to the Columbus Hollywood location I’d have the same complaints. The outward facing restaurants at the Horseshoe are a derivative from there being something to open up outward too. Why would Columbus Hollywood put outward facing restaurants only to look at parking???

    You could take the exact same building and put it in the AD and it would be an urban casino by definition. And most of my complaints would be erased. The smaller location would have forced it to have more structured parking and couldn’t have been placed far back from the street. And you could have easily moved between the casino and the many amenities of the AD SN and downtown in general.

    #1034432
    Coremodels
    Coremodels
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>InnerCore wrote:</div>
    Having it downtown would have allowed it to act as more of an entertainment center than just a casino. Which is what I think the article misses.

    False.

    I don’t know that it is false. I know a lot of people (some right on this message board who aren’t casino fans) who have been to concerts at the casino. If that concert had been somewhere else, I’m sure they would have dined and drank at neighboring venues.

    #1034437

    Graybeak
    Participant

    A separate thought – I have always been astounded by the idea that a casino would be any sort of significant financial boon to whatever neighborhood it landed in.

    Unlike the Hollywood Casino, which is a financial boon to the neighborhood that it didn’t land in.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 56 total)

The forum ‘Development’ is closed to new topics and replies.

Subscribe below: