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5xNW needs to celebrate

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion 5xNW needs to celebrate

This topic contains 108 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by Ned23 Ned23 3 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 109 total)
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  • #1116125
    Ned23
    Ned23
    Participant

    Common sense dictates the opposite.

    The complete lack of common sense dictates that every pupil gets the exact same amount of money.

    As I said in an ideal world, impoverished schools would get more public help than rich ones. however we don’t live in an ideal world, so equal is the best we can demand in the short-run.

    #1116148
    derm
    derm
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>derm wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>NEOBuckeye wrote:</div><br>
    Two words: New Rome.

    So your argument for the dissolution and incorporation of small municipalities including the takeover of their schools as well as their city governments into larger regional government organizations is the former community of New Rome, population 60.

    You dont maybe consider that somewhat of the outlier? Possibly the exception to the rule of say a Bexley, Upper Arlington, Grandview, Worthington, Westerville, Gahanna?

    You are assuming that these places are all somehow immune to corruption because of their smaller sizes?

    No. I made no such assumption. You are moving your core problem off in tangents now. We have gotten into the world where you answer a question with either a question or nonsense. Back to your point from earlier:

    In your world(my kids call it opposite world) You want to dissolve smaller municipalities into larger regional governing zones, correct? You have no actual data that supports your argument, only really two word quoting an outlier, near the outer 99% percentile and seem to be ignoring actual real world accomplishment in an extremely large subset of central Ohio municipalities that have measurable data.

    Given that Columbus City and Columbus Schools however have proven corruption and cannot seem to get out of the news in that regard, I find it hard you are using corruption as an argument.

    Question still stands. Other than a 60 person population previously unincorporated area, and comparing it to very well run municipalities that you seem to want to dissolve. What is your actual, more than two word argument that supports rolling very successful small town governments and successful school systems into the City/Region?

    #1116150
    derm
    derm
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>derm wrote:</div>
    Common sense dictates the opposite.

    The complete lack of common sense dictates that every pupil gets the exact same amount of money.

    As I said in an ideal world, impoverished schools would get more public help than rich ones. however we don’t live in an ideal world, so equal is the best we can demand in the short-run.

    Do you have kids in a school system? Have you spent time as a parent volunteer in one or more school systems?

    I say this as there is so much more than goes into a school system than cost per pupil. The teachers, honestly, are equal regardless of school system. Busing, facilities, food service, etc. are important in some regard, but honestly in my 15 years as a parent in Grandview and longer than that as a volunteer in Columbus City, the cost per pupil is a number that has little meaning in terms of success. Grandview has facilities that are near decrepit. Our schools are ancient and need constant cash flow to keep them functioning. Our cafeteria food is substandard, we have miserable food service choices. When we vote a levy in Grandview, it is to keep the lights on, not to have some sort of serious academic benefit. We have old buildings. Period. If our kids play a sport we pay extra and it is a lot of money, if our kids are in AP classes, that costs extra too.

    I guess we both agree that schools are funded poorly, but I dont personally thing more money per pupil fixes a darn thing. That is based on first hand experience in multiple central Ohio school districts.

    I have been in Ohio schools, especially in the country that are amazing facilities, that rival a college campus. Does not have a bearing on success. The teachers are the same.

    School success is determined period, Amen, by the parents of the children of the school system and how much time they volunteer towards the success of their kids in academics, athletics, fund raising, extra-curricular activities and tutoring.

    Good schools have a large volume of active parents, poor functioning schools do not, funding is a small variable.

    We pay extra in Grandview to keep extremely old, falling apart 100 year old buildings alive because we have no land to build a new facility on. No other reason. We dont have better food, smarter teachers, easier to read books, or comfy desks.

    Grandview succeeds because starting in kindergarten, every single teacher can count on a dozen parents showing up to help tutor kids so that they dont have to wrestle six groups of four kids, they get to wrestle three, because three other parents are helping groups of four kids learn how to read and write. Out in the hallway because our rooms are small and old and we dont have extra space.

    Been there, done that, saw it does not happen in the City Schools. When I would go to tutor at Windsor(where the teachers were absolutely awesome), I was the only parent there and my kid was 10 miles away. They had a 90% kid turnover. One teacher with 24 kids does is not as effective as one teacher and four parent helpers with 24 kids.

    That is the unfortunate reality of public education in Ohio, and it has zero to do with funding.

    The people who harp about money, like you are, like as not, have no kids and have not spent five minutes of their FREE time in a school volunteering. It aint the money that is the problem

    #1116163
    Josh Lapp
    Josh Lapp
    Participant

    Do you have kids in a school system? Have you spent time as a parent volunteer in one or more school systems?

    I say this as there is so much more than goes into a school system than cost per pupil. The teachers, honestly, are equal regardless of school system. Busing, facilities, food service, etc. are important in some regard, but honestly in my 15 years as a parent in Grandview and longer than that as a volunteer in Columbus City, the cost per pupil is a number that has little meaning in terms of success. Grandview has facilities that are near decrepit. Our schools are ancient and need constant cash flow to keep them functioning. Our cafeteria food is substandard, we have miserable food service choices. When we vote a levy in Grandview, it is to keep the lights on, not to have some sort of serious academic benefit. We have old buildings. Period. If our kids play a sport we pay extra and it is a lot of money, if our kids are in AP classes, that costs extra too.

    I guess we both agree that schools are funded poorly, but I dont personally thing more money per pupil fixes a darn thing. That is based on first hand experience in multiple central Ohio school districts.

    I have been in Ohio schools, especially in the country that are amazing facilities, that rival a college campus. Does not have a bearing on success. The teachers are the same.

    School success is determined period, Amen, by the parents of the children of the school system and how much time they volunteer towards the success of their kids in academics, athletics, fund raising, extra-curricular activities and tutoring.

    Good schools have a large volume of active parents, poor functioning schools do not, funding is a small variable.

    We pay extra in Grandview to keep extremely old, falling apart 100 year old buildings alive because we have no land to build a new facility on. No other reason. We dont have better food, smarter teachers, easier to read books, or comfy desks.

    Grandview succeeds because starting in kindergarten, every single teacher can count on a dozen parents showing up to help tutor kids so that they dont have to wrestle six groups of four kids, they get to wrestle three, because three other parents are helping groups of four kids learn how to read and write. Out in the hallway because our rooms are small and old and we dont have extra space.

    Been there, done that, saw it does not happen in the City Schools. When I would go to tutor at Windsor(where the teachers were absolutely awesome), I was the only parent there and my kid was 10 miles away. They had a 90% kid turnover. One teacher with 24 kids does is not as effective as one teacher and four parent helpers with 24 kids.

    That is the unfortunate reality of public education in Ohio, and it has zero to do with funding.

    The people who harp about money, like you are, like as not, have no kids and have not spent five minutes of their FREE time in a school volunteering. It aint the money that is the problem

    Can’t hurt that GH is 95% White with a Median Household Income of $85,089 vs Columbus at 61% White and Income of $44,072. Easy to vilify people, hard to get rid of institutional/generational poverty.

    #1116164

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    derm, you erroneously seem to have come to the conclusion that the greater the volume of a response, the more it equals a successful argument defense.

    Why write a novel when a few succinctly composed words will suffice?

    Your claim was that smaller, fragmented municipal goverments were free of corruption, so therefore we should never consider metro/regional consolidations of said governmentshe and service districts. New Rome is a particularly glaring example of the gaping hole in your logic here, but it is far from the only example of this, even just here in Central Ohio, as anyone who has unwittingly encountered a similar small town speed trap and found their wallet commandeered by the keystone cops to serve as an ATM for that town’s government officials can attest.

    Grandview Heights might very well be the outlier itself in terms of things working relatively free of corruption within a small government. That does not indicate that it has always been this way, or ensure that such will always be so, nor does it even suggest that there is no corruption at all. If you think your elected and appointed officials are all angels, you are foolishly naive. Politics by its very nature is a dirty sport, no matter on what level or scale it is being played. Sometimes though, you can be so close to something (or someone) that you simply can’t see everything they are doing, for better or for worse.

    #1116166

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    Can’t hurt that GH is 95% White with a Median Household Income of $85,089 vs Columbus at 61% White and Income of $44,072. Easy to vilify people, hard to get rid of institutional/generational poverty.

    +1
    Wealth of the local population is another key factor in terms of why some municipalities and school ditricts seem to fare so much better than others. I’m sure there are plenty of people in Grandview Heights, Upper Arlington, Dublin, Westerville, etc. who can afford to take time off from their professional jobs, running their businesses, etc. to meet with their elected officials over something that concerns them, or to volunteer within their children’s school to help out and support teachers. On the whole, the majority of people in the City of Columbus or with children in Columbus City Schools can’t afford to do the same, particularly when they are working long hours on multiple jobs just to make ends meet.

    #1116168

    ImNotaStar
    Participant

    People who make a decent chunk of change don’t get that way by working 8 hour days. You don’t just by luck make money and have a very easy life where you can take time off to do what you please. I know in my household with 2 professional incomes we wake up at 4am and work until 630-7 (and it’s 1030 right now). We then still have time for our kid. Neobuckeye, you live in lala land, and are likely a lazy individual.

    #1116169

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    People who make a decent chunk of change don’t get that way by working 8 hour days. You don’t just by luck make money and have a very easy life where you can take time off to do what you please.

    Eh, some actually do, or else they have benefited from one or more unearned privileges that at least make flexible schedules an option for them, in which they can dictate how much they work, where, and when they do.

    This may not be the case for you and your s/o, but you must recognize that there are those who do enjoy that privilege.

    #1116184
    derm
    derm
    Participant

    derm, you erroneously seem to have come to the conclusion that the greater the volume of a response, the more it equals a successful argument defense.

    Why write a novel when a few succinctly composed words will suffice?

    Your claim was that smaller, fragmented municipal goverments were free of corruption, so therefore we should never consider metro/regional consolidations of said governmentshe and service districts. New Rome is a particularly glaring example of the gaping hole in your logic here, but it is far from the only example of this, even just here in Central Ohio, as anyone who has unwittingly encountered a similar small town speed trap and found their wallet commandeered by the keystone cops to serve as an ATM for that town’s government officials can attest.

    Grandview Heights might very well be the outlier itself in terms of things working relatively free of corruption within a small government. That does not indicate that it has always been this way, or ensure that such will always be so, nor does it even suggest that there is no corruption at all. If you think your elected and appointed officials are all angels, you are foolishly naive. Politics by its very nature is a dirty sport, no matter on what level or scale it is being played. Sometimes though, you can be so close to something (or someone) that you simply can’t see everything they are doing, for better or for worse.

    My claim was not that. My claim was that folding Grandview into City of Columbus would eliminate Grandview as it is known, ruin the schools, drive property values down by a ton in both Grandview and the 5th by NW area and basically have no discernable benefits whatsoever to the City of either Columbus or Grandview.

    #1116190
    Josh Lapp
    Josh Lapp
    Participant

    My claim was not that. My claim was that folding Grandview into City of Columbus would eliminate Grandview as it is known, ruin the schools, drive property values down by a ton in both Grandview and the 5th by NW area and basically have no discernable benefits whatsoever to the City of either Columbus or Grandview.

    All the places that I have read about that do City-County mergers, or something of the sort, tend to keep the pre-existing school systems and boundaries, while consolidating municipal government.

    Edit: Also, as is seen in Clintonville, wealthy, mostly white areas that actually send their kids to Columbus Schools tend to have schools that are as ‘good’ as many suburban districts. So even a Grandview School System that was folded into CCS would likely remain essentially the same as long as its residents were wealthy.

    #1116191

    Eugene_C
    Participant

    People who make a decent chunk of change don’t get that way by working 8 hour days. You don’t just by luck make money and have a very easy life where you can take time off to do what you please. I know in my household with 2 professional incomes we wake up at 4am and work until 630-7 (and it’s 1030 right now). We then still have time for our kid. Neobuckeye, you live in lala land, and are likely a lazy individual.

    I dunno. We make “a decent chunk of of change” and we get up at about 6AM and we’re both home by around 6PM every night. There’s the occasional late meeting or or early video conference with Japan but we can flex those. So, we work mostly 40-45 hour weeks and have 3-4 weeks vacation per year. We get comp time too and use that for long weekends now and then.

    #1116196
    Ned23
    Ned23
    Participant

    …You don’t just by luck make money and have a very easy life where you can take time off to do what you please…

    You do if you’re lucky enough to get into one of the few union shops that are still around.

    #1116210

    drew
    Participant

    I can’t imagine the circumstances in which Grandview would be absorbed by Columbus, but I do like the thought experiment and the reasoning behind floating the idea. To my mind, questions about what is fair in a broad sense have been absent from our metro’s dialogue for too long, and I’m heartened to see that there has been some move away from the notion that if we just continue to ensconce, fortify, and expand the prosperous sections of the metro area it’ll be of benefit to all.

    I do suspect that Grandview, on balance, gets more from it’s proximity to the city of Columbus than it gives, and that as an elite economic enclave it sits a bit too close to the downtown core to escape scrutiny. It should, at bare minimum, be expected that Grandview city government and Grandview’s population are aware of that.

    #1116307
    Posole
    Posole
    Participant

    I think we’re thinking about this all wrong. Maybe Grandview Heights needs to annex 5xNW and more of the surrounding township.

    #1116316
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    Can anyone refresh my memory as to what 5xNW needs to be celebrating?

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 109 total)

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