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5xNW needs to celebrate

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion 5xNW needs to celebrate

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 109 total)
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  • #1115672

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    when it becomes a moral argument that suburbs’ very existence is somehow wrong or unjust, you’ve lost me. That’s just absurd. Give me a break.

    No, absurd is the idea that a 1.33 square mile strip of land with 6,000 people living on it should even be considered a municipal entity with its own mayor, city council, municipal staff and services separate from the 223 square mile one with 800,000 people surrounding it. Honestly, that’s not only absurd, but comically so.

    #1115676

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    Switching to county school systems like other states have from the local school systems that we have in Ohio would drive the real estate people insane. They’d make money but would also have plenty of work to do.

    Ohio should have fewer municipal entities, fewer school districts that are consolidate at the county level, and even fewer counties for that matter. There are far too many of them today, created in a time when the scale of life and governance was much smaller than what it is now. I mean, Columbus itself sprawls out of Franklin County into Delaware and Fairfield Counties. This is just silly, and it brings the very purpose of county government into question.

    Also, propping up real estate agents who love to sell people a house in one school district over another isn’t enough of a reason to justify not considering consolidations at this point.

    #1115702

    japoling
    Participant

    Given the discussion here about the brand of “Grandview” there was an interesting article on the desire of some residents of North Linden to rebrand their neighborhood “East Clintonville”. http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/02/24/Some-North-Linden-residents-want-neighborhood-to-be-called-East-Clintonville.html

    #1115737
    Ned23
    Ned23
    Participant

    ..t when it becomes a moral argument that suburbs’ very existence is somehow wrong or unjust, you’ve lost me. That’s just absurd. Give me a break.

    Interesting discussion. The (conservative) Ohio Supreme Court decided that the differential funding of public schools between suburbs cities was exactly that: “unjust”. They ordered the legislature to fix the funding and the legislature has thus far refused. Must be going on 20 years now. So your suburb is in fact illegally funding schools under a system that was ordered abolished by the state’s highest court.

    #1115810

    thomaspickles
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>spfld_expat wrote:</div>
    when it becomes a moral argument that suburbs’ very existence is somehow wrong or unjust, you’ve lost me. That’s just absurd. Give me a break.

    No, absurd is the idea that a 1.33 square mile strip of land with 6,000 people living on it should even be considered a municipal entity with its own mayor, city council, municipal staff and services separate from the 223 square mile one with 800,000 people surrounding it. Honestly, that’s not only absurd, but comically so.

    Your opinion, to me, is comical. I wish all cities were this size. Voluntary association when it comes to taxes, policies, and a larger vote per person. Many small cities could create a type of market competition among others in a small area.

    To me, a comical joke is the idea that the State of Ohio or the Federal Government is acting on your behalf, or is a voluntary association. The larger the city, the less voluntary, and the less you have a say in the government.

    Edit/PS: The city of London in the UK is smaller than Grandview Heights, only 1.1 sq miles. Guess you should petition for them to be annexed or whatever.

    #1115819

    thomaspickles
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>spfld_expat wrote:</div>
    ..t when it becomes a moral argument that suburbs’ very existence is somehow wrong or unjust, you’ve lost me. That’s just absurd. Give me a break.

    Interesting discussion. The (conservative) Ohio Supreme Court decided that the differential funding of public schools between suburbs cities was exactly that: “unjust”. They ordered the legislature to fix the funding and the legislature has thus far refused. Must be going on 20 years now. So your suburb is in fact illegally funding schools under a system that was ordered abolished by the state’s highest court.

    Ah, a classic. The decision basically said “Raise taxes on everyone in the state, so that poor schools have as much money as the best performing schools”.

    Which is hilariously wrong, to act as though school funding is associated directly w/ performance. (Clintonville Elementary says hello at a 10/10)

    Regardless, the Ohio Supreme Court also responded to the appeal saying that Local Tax Dollars ARE allowed to be used for school funding, as long as they didn’t pass the 50% mark of per-student funds. Secondly, the Ohio Supreme Court has already gotten rid of the jurisdiction on this one, so the only thing that could happen now is the US Supreme Court stepping in…

    #1115892

    Lu
    Participant

    According to this 2013 Columbus Business First post, CCS spent more per student than Dublin, Worthington, New Albany, Gahanna, or Hilliard. Of course, it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison because student needs are surely higher in CCS than these suburbs. But equal spending per student doesn’t seem to be the key issue here.

    #1115895
    derm
    derm
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>GCrites80s wrote:</div>
    Switching to county school systems like other states have from the local school systems that we have in Ohio would drive the real estate people insane. They’d make money but would also have plenty of work to do.

    Ohio should have fewer municipal entities, fewer school districts that are consolidate at the county level, and even fewer counties for that matter. There are far too many of them today, created in a time when the scale of life and governance was much smaller than what it is now. I mean, Columbus itself sprawls out of Franklin County into Delaware and Fairfield Counties. This is just silly, and it brings the very purpose of county government into question.

    Also, propping up real estate agents who love to sell people a house in one school district over another isn’t enough of a reason to justify not considering consolidations at this point.

    The assumption you are making is that the bigger the scale, the more efficient and cost effective the governance would be. That would be the cost savings correct?

    So how efficient is City of Columbus government? The Schools? I have a pretty good idea of how Grandview is run and am involved in the process at least a little bit in terms of being kept in the loop on some decisions.

    I would like to argue the exact opposite of yours. I dont think your argument is a little bit wrong. I think it is 100% the opposite of what actually should be done. I think the size makes the governance way more inefficient, way less cost effective, much more likely to be abused due to scope and more likely to have graft, corruption, and incompetence. There are some recent news articles about the City/Schools that seem to support my argument.

    On the other hand the ability of Grandview to produce a top notch product with a horrible school funding model, quite honestly substandard facilities(by a ton, our schools are 100 year old falling apart buildings) completely landlocked city, very little industry, a recent history of the loss of a major tax base…..

    Other than your opinion, which as I mentioned, I think is 100% wrong based on real world results, what do you have to support your argument?

    #1115908

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>NEOBuckeye wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>GCrites80s wrote:</div><br>
    Switching to county school systems like other states have from the local school systems that we have in Ohio would drive the real estate people insane. They’d make money but would also have plenty of work to do.

    Ohio should have fewer municipal entities, fewer school districts that are consolidate at the county level, and even fewer counties for that matter. There are far too many of them today, created in a time when the scale of life and governance was much smaller than what it is now. I mean, Columbus itself sprawls out of Franklin County into Delaware and Fairfield Counties. This is just silly, and it brings the very purpose of county government into question.

    Also, propping up real estate agents who love to sell people a house in one school district over another isn’t enough of a reason to justify not considering consolidations at this point.

    The assumption you are making is that the bigger the scale, the more efficient and cost effective the governance would be. That would be the cost savings correct?

    So how efficient is City of Columbus government? The Schools? I have a pretty good idea of how Grandview is run and am involved in the process at least a little bit in terms of being kept in the loop on some decisions.

    I would like to argue the exact opposite of yours. I dont think your argument is a little bit wrong. I think it is 100% the opposite of what actually should be done. I think the size makes the governance way more inefficient, way less cost effective, much more likely to be abused due to scope and more likely to have graft, corruption, and incompetence. There are some recent news articles about the City/Schools that seem to support my argument.

    On the other hand the ability of Grandview to produce a top notch product with a horrible school funding model, quite honestly substandard facilities(by a ton, our schools are 100 year old falling apart buildings) completely landlocked city, very little industry, a recent history of the loss of a major tax base…..

    Other than your opinion, which as I mentioned, I think is 100% wrong based on real world results, what do you have to support your argument?

    Two words: New Rome.

    #1115922

    OneBagTravel
    Participant

    Two words: embedded quotes

    #1115957
    Ned23
    Ned23
    Participant

    According to this 2013 Columbus Business First post, CCS spent more per student than Dublin, Worthington, New Albany, Gahanna, or Hilliard. Of course, it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison because student needs are surely higher in CCS than these suburbs. But equal spending per student doesn’t seem to be the key issue here.

    Regardless of what anyone’s opinion is on cost-vs-performance, common sense dictates that public spending per-student should be equal across the board. If anything one could argue poor schools need MORE money because they have more hurdles to overcome with the problems inherent with the student population coming from an impoverished environment. They need more counseling, more nutrition intervention, more security, more truant officers, the list goes on and on.

    Wealthier kids in secure, stable households are capable of learning with much less extra help. However, I will only argue for exactly equal public spending per pupil. Any extra that you want to spend on rich schools should be raised privately without gvt. help. (Booster clubs, etc.)

    #1115962

    Eugene_C
    Participant

    I think what gets people hot and bothered is when they see some schools installing new Olympic pools while others are struggling to keep the HVAC working. A swimming pool does not meaningfully contribute to getting a kid ready for college, unless you’re trying for an academic scholarship on the swim team or something.

    #1116118
    derm
    derm
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Lu wrote:</div>
    According to this 2013 Columbus Business First post, CCS spent more per student than Dublin, Worthington, New Albany, Gahanna, or Hilliard. Of course, it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison because student needs are surely higher in CCS than these suburbs. But equal spending per student doesn’t seem to be the key issue here.

    Regardless of what anyone’s opinion is on cost-vs-performance, common sense dictates that public spending per-student should be equal across the board. If anything one could argue poor schools need MORE money because they have more hurdles to overcome with the problems inherent with the student population coming from an impoverished environment. They need more counseling, more nutrition intervention, more security, more truant officers, the list goes on and on.

    Wealthier kids in secure, stable households are capable of learning with much less extra help. However, I will only argue for exactly equal public spending per pupil. Any extra that you want to spend on rich schools should be raised privately without gvt. help. (Booster clubs, etc.)

    Common sense dictates the opposite.

    The complete lack of common sense dictates that every pupil gets the exact same amount of money.

    If this was a clone world where every school was built the exact same time with the exact same material on an exact same piece of ground and every pupil had the exact same IQ and there was never any need for aides for special needs and every kid had great food and home life and every kid could walk to school the exact same distance and not take the bus and every kid could read and write and learn mathematics and every single town had the exact same number of kids and they could all buy the equipment for the students at the same time and every family had the same number of babies on the same day and they all came out the exact same sex then your argument would make common sense.

    Since that is not true it is completely 100% impossible for every single kid to have the exact same amount spent on them. That is common sense.

    #1116119
    derm
    derm
    Participant

    Two words: New Rome.

    So your argument for the dissolution and incorporation of small municipalities including the takeover of their schools as well as their city governments into larger regional government organizations is the former community of New Rome, population 60.

    You dont maybe consider that somewhat of the outlier? Possibly the exception to the rule of say a Bexley, Upper Arlington, Grandview, Worthington, Westerville, Gahanna?

    #1116123

    NEOBuckeye
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>NEOBuckeye wrote:</div>
    Two words: New Rome.

    So your argument for the dissolution and incorporation of small municipalities including the takeover of their schools as well as their city governments into larger regional government organizations is the former community of New Rome, population 60.

    You dont maybe consider that somewhat of the outlier? Possibly the exception to the rule of say a Bexley, Upper Arlington, Grandview, Worthington, Westerville, Gahanna?

    You are assuming that these places are all somehow immune to corruption because of their smaller sizes?

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 109 total)

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