Messageboard - Transportation

NOTE: You are viewing an archived version of the Columbus Underground forums/messageboard. As of 05/22/16 they have been closed to new comments and replies, but will remain accessible for archived searches and reference. For more information CLICK HERE

3C Passenger Rail Project - News & Updates

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Transportation 3C Passenger Rail Project – News & Updates

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 15 posts - 196 through 210 (of 1,160 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #347512

    michaelcoyote
    Participant

    agtw31 wrote >>
    just make one car a small freight car.

    There typically is one. It’s generally called a baggage car on a passenger train though.

    More info here: http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267371736

    #347513

    agtw31
    Member

    mhe wrote >>
    This is so ridiculous. For the people who dont care to ever ride the train, do you realize the amount of work, and jobs it will bring to this area?

    what jobs,and for how long?

    #347514

    gramarye
    Participant

    agtw31 wrote >>

    mhe wrote >>
    This is so ridiculous. For the people who dont care to ever ride the train, do you realize the amount of work, and jobs it will bring to this area?

    what jobs,and for how long?

    The fact that a job isn’t permanent doesn’t make it bad, it just makes it less good. As for what jobs, there will obviously be both construction jobs and operating jobs for the line itself. However, the more important variable is what it could save on the roads. Saving taxpayers’ money ultimately translates into jobs somewhere, even if it’s almost never possible to say where that is.

    #347515

    hugh59
    Participant

    The problem that Rockmastermike is complaining about is on both sides of this issue. Some people (politicians and writers here) support the 3C Rail program because they genuinely believe that it will be good for Ohio and the nation. Some people oppose it because they genuinely believe it will be bad. Some people are totally partisan and are more concerned about scoring political points (either by supporting the program or opposing the program) than about creating good policy. Finally, some people don’t know whether to support the program or not.

    Because of the politically charged environment we are in today, many people distrust the motives of anyone who is not on their side. This distrust can cause people to believe that anyone who is not supporting their position is one of the cynical political partisans who don’t care about good policy. One bad side effect of this distrust (and the heightened emotions of many people these days) is that people acting in good faith on one side of an issue may act in such a way as to alienate the people who are acting in good faith on the other side (and the people who don’t yet have a position because they don’t know enough yet).

    I want to see passenger rail service return to the 3 C corridor. I once suffered through a ride on a Greyhound bus to a neighboring city just to avoid unnecessarily driving my car (what a nightmare that was). I strongly believe that passenger rail service can be good policy and successfully implemented. However, I do not know enough about this specific program to know whether it is well enough conceived to succeed. I am in this forum so that I can learn from the other people here so I can develop an informed opinion (or learn where to look for information to help me learn).

    People who immediately support or oppose any program are probably partisan hacks. But everyone else probably can be convinced to change their position (or in the case of the undecided, take a position) if given information that they can trust. The hacks on both sides of this issue are ruining it for all of us.

    #347516

    agtw31
    Member
    #347517

    hugh59
    Participant

    If 39 MPH is the best average speed the system can provide, I am okay with that. Sitting in my seat while reading a book is a great way to travel. I prefer rail to flying or driving for a lot of the trips I make. I regulaRly road Amtrack when I was living in DC; it was the best way to get up and down the east coast.

    Though. If it is going to take me 15 hours to ride the train to my destination and cost me about the same as it will to fly there, then I will either Fly or drive.

    #347518

    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    hugh59 wrote >>
    If 39 MPH is the best average speed the system can provide, I am okay with that.

    That’s the average speed when traveling the full route from Cincinnati to Cleveland. I imagine most people who live in Columbus will not be using it for the full route, which means fewer stops and higher average speeds.

    Columbus to Dayton for example has no in-between stops. The average speed for that leg of the route will be much faster than 39mph.

    #347519

    honavery
    Member

    Would it be possible in the future to offer an express train once a day from Cincinnati to Cleveland and Cleveland to Cincinnati round trip?

    #347520

    futureman
    Participant

    honavery wrote >>
    Would it be possible in the future to offer an express train once a day from Cincinnati to Cleveland and Cleveland to Cincinnati round trip?

    If there was strong demand I don’t see why not. From everything I’ve read the major obstacle with the departure/arrival times is due to freight having priority over passenger trains. This is a problem with all Amtrak routes that share rail with freight traffic and is one of main reasons for delays.

    #347521

    futureman
    Participant

    This is a very good read too …

    [b]3C CORRIDOR – MYTHBUSTERS![/b]
    From ALL ABOARD OHIO
    http://www.allaboardohio.org
    http://members.cox.net/ohiohsr/3C%20mythbusters.pdf

    A couple of the highlights …

    [b]Myth: Ohio is going to be stuck with this slow train.[/b]

    Answer: Other states’ train speeds, departures and ridership increased
    with investment. Ohio’s will too. This year, ODOT will start
    environmental planning over 18-24 months so it can tap more
    federal funds for 90+ mph trains on five Ohio routes: Cleveland
    – Columbus; Columbus – Cincinnati; Toledo – Columbus; Toledo
    – Cleveland; Cleveland – Pittsburgh. These investments will build
    on the 3C “Quick Start”!

    [b]Myth: Ohio should sidetrack this train for High-Speed Rail.[/b]

    Answer: Ohio is 0-4 (1977, 1982, 1985, 1992) in trying to go from 0 to
    more than 110 mph. No state or nation has either. High-Speed
    Rail is a major investment that requires evolving a supportive
    culture, politics, center-city density and a network of connecting
    and parallel regional rail and local transit services. It takes
    decades for these support systems to evolve, just as it did prior
    to the Interstate Highway System or Europe’s HSR. California
    invested $2.2 billion over 30 years to develop rail to where it
    could pass a HSR bond issue after prior failures. Illinois, Michigan,
    Pennsylvania and the Pacific Northwest may be only a few years
    behind. Ohio is not ready to make the leap to high-speed.

    [b]Myth: There will be no local transit when I arrive.[/b]

    ANSWER: Stations are proposed to be built next to major transit services.
    Cleveland’s Amtrak station is served by a frequent downtown
    loop bus. The Southwest Cleveland stop at the Puritas-W.150th
    Rapid Station provides rail access to the city and airport. The
    Columbus station will be on the busy High Street bus line to
    downtown, OSU, etc. Dayton’s station will be at Main Street on
    multiple bus routes including electric trolleys. Both Cincinnati-area
    stops are next to bus routes to downtown and the universities.

    [url=http://members.cox.net/ohiohsr/3C%20mythbusters.pdf]READ MORE[/url]

    #347522

    hugh59
    Participant

    Walker wrote >>

    hugh59 wrote >>
    If 39 MPH is the best average speed the system can provide, I am okay with that.

    That’s the average speed when traveling the full route from Cincinnati to Cleveland. I imagine most people who live in Columbus will not be using it for the full route, which means fewer stops and higher average speeds.
    Columbus to Dayton for example has no in-between stops. The average speed for that leg of the route will be much faster than 39mph.

    Thanks Walker. I assumed something like that would be true. Still, sometimes it is useful to argue from your own side’s worst position just to demonstrate that, even under the worst interpretation, your argument is still the best.

    #347523

    hugh59
    Participant

    agtw31 wrote >>

    hugh59 wrote >> I once suffered through a ride on a Greyhound bus to a neighboring city just to avoid unnecessarily driving my car (what a nightmare that was).

    that’s a hilarious statement.

    Oh my…that did not come out the way I intended. :-) That’s what I get for drafting a comment on my smart phone’s tiny screen. The bus ride was the nightmare; driving my car there is okay.

    #347524

    Parker
    Participant

    futureman wrote >>
    This is a very good read too …
    [b]3C CORRIDOR – MYTHBUSTERS![/b]
    From ALL ABOARD OHIO
    http://www.allaboardohio.org
    http://members.cox.net/ohiohsr/3C%20mythbusters.pdf
    A couple of the highlights …
    [b]Myth: Ohio is going to be stuck with this slow train.[/b]
    Answer: Other states’ train speeds, departures and ridership increased
    with investment. Ohio’s will too. This year, ODOT will start
    environmental planning over 18-24 months so it can tap more
    federal funds for 90+ mph trains on five Ohio routes: Cleveland
    – Columbus; Columbus – Cincinnati; Toledo – Columbus; Toledo
    – Cleveland; Cleveland – Pittsburgh. These investments will build
    on the 3C “Quick Start”!
    [b]Myth: Ohio should sidetrack this train for High-Speed Rail.[/b]
    Answer: Ohio is 0-4 (1977, 1982, 1985, 1992) in trying to go from 0 to
    more than 110 mph. No state or nation has either. High-Speed
    Rail is a major investment that requires evolving a supportive
    culture, politics, center-city density and a network of connecting
    and parallel regional rail and local transit services. It takes
    decades for these support systems to evolve, just as it did prior
    to the Interstate Highway System or Europe’s HSR. California
    invested $2.2 billion over 30 years to develop rail to where it
    could pass a HSR bond issue after prior failures. Illinois, Michigan,
    Pennsylvania and the Pacific Northwest may be only a few years
    behind. Ohio is not ready to make the leap to high-speed.
    [b]Myth: There will be no local transit when I arrive.[/b]
    ANSWER: Stations are proposed to be built next to major transit services.
    Cleveland’s Amtrak station is served by a frequent downtown
    loop bus. The Southwest Cleveland stop at the Puritas-W.150th
    Rapid Station provides rail access to the city and airport. The
    Columbus station will be on the busy High Street bus line to
    downtown, OSU, etc. Dayton’s station will be at Main Street on
    multiple bus routes including electric trolleys. Both Cincinnati-area
    stops are next to bus routes to downtown and the universities.

    [url=http://members.cox.net/ohiohsr/3C%20mythbusters.pdf]READ MORE[/url]

    +1

    #347525

    Mercurius
    Participant

    From Gongwer (If anyone was planning on supporting Kasich, if they want passenger rail, better think again)
    [quote]KASICH BLASTS STRICKLAND PLAN FOR AMTRAK SERVICE; BOTH OPPOSE HUMANE SOCIETY LIVESTOCK BALLOT ISSUE

    Republican governor candidate John Kasich on Tuesday ridiculed Gov. Ted Strickland’s plan for passenger train service as “a white elephant,” but agreed with the incumbent about the need to oppose a potential ballot issue dealing with care of farm animals.

    Both major party candidates for governor in the Nov. 2 election made separate appearances during the same event: the Ohio Farm Bureau Federation’s Ag Day at the Capitol.

    An audience member raised the issue of rail passenger service when Mr. Kasich took several questions after his address.

    Ohio was awarded $400 million in federal economic stimulus money to finance the start of Amtrak passenger routes from Cleveland to Cincinnati, via Columbus and Dayton, at conventional speeds of no more than 79 miles per hour. Average speeds would be about 39 miles per hour.

    “One thing I can tell you is I understand the train’s going to go 39 miles an hour. If I’m governor I’ll pledge to you that train will go at least 41 miles an hour,” Mr. Kasich joked, drawing laughter from the crowd.

    The former congressman said the state should instead use the $400 million for road improvements.

    “We ought to take the $400 million and we ought to pave our roads, our highways, which adds to greater productivity in this state, helps you to get things to market. We ought to be in the business of fixing our bridges, our infrastructure,” he said.

    “My understanding is there’s actually some places on the Ohio Turnpike they had to shut down the overpass. Let me also say that freight has a place in this state, and perhaps there are some things we can do to upgrade the track and get that done,” Mr. Kasich said.

    “Think about this: a train that goes 39 miles an hour between Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati, and they think that’s an answer? Do you think that’s an answer, folks?” he asked, drawing a muted response of “no” from the audience.

    “We ought to stop this train. This train thing’s been around since I was 23 years old. I don’t know where they come up with this stuff,” Mr. Kasich said.

    “It’s a white elephant. We don’t have the money to operate it,” he said.

    He dismissed a suggestion that Ohio lacked discretion to spend the federal funds for purposes other than intended passenger rail projects.

    “I think it’s our money. We ought to be making a very good case it’s our money and we want the money. If the money was available for a train, we need the money to fix our roads and to fix our bridges, before we have a catastrophe out here,” he said.[/quote]

    #347526

    Walker Evans
    Keymaster

    hugh59 wrote >>
    Thanks Walker. I assumed something like that would be true. Still, sometimes it is useful to argue from your own side’s worst position just to demonstrate that, even under the worst interpretation, your argument is still the best.

    Sure, I agree with that.

    But I can’t help but think it’s a bit ridiculous to hear certain rail opponents repeatedly bash the average speed of the entire rail line length when it’s likely that 75% of riders will not be traveling from end to end and thus will be traveling at a higher average speed.

    What I’d like to know, and perhaps someone from the ORDC could tell is, is what the forecasted trips are going to look like along the line, and figure out the average speeds for each of those trips made, and give us a [b]true[/b] overage average speed based on usage levels.

Viewing 15 posts - 196 through 210 (of 1,160 total)

The forum ‘Transportation’ is closed to new topics and replies.