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Streetcar FAQ
Sunday, May 25, 2008
BY ROBERT VITALE
Here are more questions than answers right now about the plan to bring streetcars back to Columbus, even among the people pitching the idea.
After the City Council balked earlier this month at approving $2 million to design a system its members haven’t yet approved, Mayor Michael B. Coleman acknowledged “Our public needs more information.”
A funding proposal, he has said, is ” a financial scenario, not the financial scenario” — meaning it’s all subject to change. After two years of study by consultants and community members, here’s what we do know:
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The Dispatch Publishes a "Streetcar FAQ"
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BTW, to clarify…when you want to answer this question:
I’m not convinced that asking an 81 year old man about how dangerous streetcars were 60 years ago to women in high heels is really all that informative…
LOL
If they interviewed a 90 year old who said “Columbus NEEDS a streetcar!” you’d be singing the praises of the wisdom of our elders.
Streetcar threads are fun!
If they interviewed a 90 year old who said “Columbus NEEDS a streetcar!” you’d be singing the praises of the wisdom of our elders.
Streetcar threads are fun!
no, I really wouldn’t…if it was based on 60 year old data.
It’s just poor reporting.
BTW, still waiting for all your “data” on business closures during streetcar construction…
I’ll be the blue guy at the keyboard holding my breath…
Most a pretty good roundup of information thus far.
I agree that the comment on the safety was a bit of an odd source. Especially because in the graphic I posted above there’s a note saying that Streetcars are easier to board than busses due to their loading doors being built at curb-height.
I still don’t know if enough is being done to address the most common concern I hear… “The money should be spent on something else”.
If they interviewed a 90 year old who said “Columbus NEEDS a streetcar!” you’d be singing the praises of the wisdom of our elders.
Streetcar threads are fun!
no, I really wouldn’t…if it was based on 60 year old data.
It’s just poor reporting.
BTW, still waiting for all your “data” on business closures during streetcar construction…
I’ll be the blue guy at the keyboard holding my breath…
I thought you were the expert. My bad.
I’m not a data digger, but for you I spent 14 seconds and found this.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20030224/ai_n10172924/pg_1
Can we keep the conversation relevant without the snarky back-and-forth commentary, guys? Your digs at each other aren’t doing anything for your arguments.
I’m not a data digger, but for you I spent 14 seconds and found this.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20030224/ai_n10172924/pg_1
This article is a completely different situation and time table then what we are dealing with here.
“That’s what’s creating the trouble,” Preau said.
Boh Bros. has 140 days to move the water line to the middle traffic lane. Following that, installation of the streetcar tracks is scheduled to last an additional 60 days.
I guess the thing I still wonder is how the heck are they going to get it to fit onto High St.?
The “prototype” that everyone seems to rave about is Portland’s system but that’s a one-way loop taking up one lane of road on mostly already one-way streets. You at least are left with one non-track, automobile lane and additional lanes of parking. High St. however, especially in the Short North, is two lanes of traffic and two lanes of parking…that’s it. The proposal has two lanes of streetcar track and it says the street cars will also stop every one to three blocks. If they keep the lanes of parking, like they say they’re going to, you’re going to put track on the two automobile lanes. If you got caught behind a streetcar stopping every one to three blocks, with no way to pass, it would be a nightmare. And as much as I’d love to say that everyone on High St. goes the posted 25 mph, nobody does, so any large non-passable streetcar going 25 mph is going to cause problems just about everywhere on the street.
I just don’t see how logistically you’re going to fit two lanes of streetcar track on High St. and not have a traffic nightmare.
I’m wary of speaking up…
…But streetcars in Toronto go both ways (i.e. take up two traffic lanes) and the remaining lanes are usually metered parking…meaning, when you get behind one (if you are driving) it’s just like following a bus. There are usually openings at some point on the street to get around them. I’ve never had a problem driving on the smaller streets with streetcars. They come every five minutes but you hardly notice them when you are driving. I don’t think it will be such a big deal on high street. If you can drive with buses in traffic, you can drive with street cars in traffic. I don’t think it will be a big deal, honestly. And they have streetcars going on most lanes of the more busy streets, and Toronto’s like, six times bigger than here. I guess time will tell, but I don’t see a major obstacle here. Also, walking on the street level when they are adding to a streetcar line on any given street (which happens all the time), it didn’t seem to affect businesses on the sidewalk. People walked, shopped, and even ate on sidewalk cafes like any other time.
I’m not a data digger, but for you I spent 14 seconds and found this.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20030224/ai_n10172924/pg_1
Should have taken less than that since it was quoted in another thread…still doesn’t make the article any more applicable.
The story is about the headaches created from relocating a water line…and as I pointed out in another thread, this could happen tomorrow to businesses along High St. and offer no long term benefit to go with all the torn up streets.
Work will be completed in three segments. The Orleans Avenue to St. Louis Street portion is allotted 50 days. The St. Louis to Bienville and Bienville to Canal portions are allotted 45 days each, Preau said.
I don’t think you’d be reading this article if it was a mere 6 weeks that each business suffered under construction out front.
Plus a center turn lane. But yeah, that bottleneck only exists in a small portion of the southern end of the Short North.
If anyone is looking to go as quickly as possible between OSU and Downtown, they’re going to be taking Third, Fourth, or Neil already. High Street isn’t a very speed through-street already, so a Streetcar isn’t going to be changing that.[/img]
Snarky is the new black
Snarky is far from the “new black”…. it is the same old, pointless snide remarks that do nothing to advance a discussion.
As to how a streetcar will fit on High Street…. it’s a little premature to be fretting over a detail that hasn’t even been engineered yet. But consider that COTA buses are already numerous on High Street and they seem to blend in just fine. I doubt streetcars running at five-minute intervals are going to create gridlock.
As to how a streetcar will fit on High Street…. it’s a little premature to be fretting over a detail that hasn’t even been engineered yet. But consider that COTA buses are already numerous on High Street and they seem to blend in just fine. I doubt streetcars running at five-minute intervals are going to create gridlock.
The thing about buses though is that all of their stops are no-parking, so when they do stop they pull over and people can pass. That won’t be possible with streetcars. And yes, you can use Summit, 4th, whatever to bypass that area, but I still don’t think it’s a great idea to have a main business pipeline congested even further. Why couldn’t the streetcars use 4th or Summit?
Or even better, why can’t the buses?
Even better, why can’t the cars use 4th and summit? Get them off of High St.
Exactly. It seems we already have two solutions that are already in place and cost nothing.
Instead of looking towards a novel means of transportation, such as a way to get people downtown in an easy, convenient manner, let’s figure out a way to get people around downtown, since we already have two (not counting bikes or simply walking) ways to do that already. :roll:
I still don’t see the logic of making a streetcar system to get people up and down High St. that will be expensive, make it more difficult for cars (which will still be the main way people get around High St.) and be redundant to existing means of transportation, when the real issue in a sprawling urban/suburban city such as Columbus is not getting people around downtown but getting them there in the first place. I said it before; if I don’t live downtown, I’m simply going to drive me car where I want to go, park and go there. I’m not going to pay to park along the streetcar line and then pay to ride the streetcar, simply because it’s there. People will continue to do what they already do–pay to park as close to where they’re going as possible. If we had a quick easy way to get downtown without using cars, then I’d see the practicality of a streetcar system.
Instead of looking towards a novel means of transportation, such as a way to get people downtown in an easy, convenient manner, let’s figure out a way to get people around downtown, since we already have two (not counting bikes or simply walking) ways to do that already. :roll:
I still don’t see the logic of making a streetcar system to get people up and down High St. that will be expensive, make it more difficult for cars (which will still be the main way people get around High St.) and be redundant to existing means of transportation, when the real issue in a sprawling urban/suburban city such as Columbus is not getting people around downtown but getting them there in the first place. I said it before; if I don’t live downtown, I’m simply going to drive me car where I want to go, park and go there. I’m not going to pay to park along the streetcar line and then pay to ride the streetcar, simply because it’s there. People will continue to do what they already do–pay to park as close to where they’re going as possible. If we had a quick easy way to get downtown without using cars, then I’d see the practicality of a streetcar system.
BINGO!!!! ding, ding,ding.
Im still surprised people still support the mayors streetcar idea when High st. needs a street car like it needs a landing strip.
Get on 670 on a weekday morning. making it easier to get INTO town is an idea that most people would be behind.
It seems now like everybody who is in favor of the high st train just “wants a train” because “real cities” have them.
The cost and the fact that the train would run a small section of high st. seems to not figure into the “we want a train” part of it.
Remember 9 or 10 years ago when we took a little vote to build an arena? We were told ” this is it, vote for the arena or we will never get a public arena or a NHL team” We voted it down and got a great arena and a great hockey team without raising taxes or putting a surcharge in tickets. This goofy train idea is the same thing.
They tried this, though, with North Corridor. It’s a no win situation. I think we can all agree that an expanded rail system would be great for Columbus, but where do you start? If you go for the big picture, like NC, you stand to fail from the start up cost and lack of approval. You start with a limited system like a High St line and you have potential for expansion. Still depends on approval from the villagers and a huge shift in our thinking towards transit and infrastructure.