Passenger Rail is on the right track for comeback

By: noozer

99 Comments

• 

  bremkat November 17, 2008 12:14 pm

  gramarye wrote I’m impressed that Columbus got an explicit mention by Johnson–and that it got quoted in the Washington Times. Granted, that’s not the same coming from an advocacy groups as from someone in the government itself, but it still gets the city’s name out there in the media outside our region.

  I’ve spoken to Dave Johnson many times over the past few years. He certainly knows our plight here in Ohio and even Columbus.

  And, yes, I agree with you that an individual from the government that controls purse strings and policy has more weight than someone from an advocacy group. That is, until, that advocacy group exerts political influence…

  But by that time, it’s always listed as a special interest.
• 

  bremkat November 17, 2008 12:17 pm

  Brewmaster wrote ^ That’s surprising. From everything I’ve read, he’s done a great job at Amtrak. It’ll be interesting to see who fills his shoes.

  I thought that if anyone would get Amtrak back in Ohio, it would be him. He’s done a marvelous job testifying against the administration’s efforts to dissolve the system and he’s from Lorain to boot.
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  noktulo November 21, 2008 1:51 pm

  gramarye wrote That would, however, likely mean locating it somewhere other than right along High Street, and there are good arguments for locating it in the urban core. Of course, one of those reasons would involve even more room: the prospect of having our own Union Station like D.C. or NYC’s again, with intermodal passenger transit in all its forms (heavy rail/Amtrak, light rail, streetcar, bus, taxi). There would be no way to get that anywhere on High without knocking a fair amount of stuff down, though.

  I’m working on designing a fantasy light rail system for Columbus where the major intermodal station is right across from downtown in Franklinton. I think that would work fine with a streetcar line crossing the Scioto on Broad Street. And there is a lot of open space there and train tracks already intersect there.

  Then again, my design also involves a couple of rail lines going under the river and having a station at City Center. There’s the possibility of a Penn Station-esque mostly underground intermodal station too.
• 

  gramarye November 21, 2008 2:01 pm

  noktulo wrote
  

  gramarye wrote That would, however, likely mean locating it somewhere other than right along High Street, and there are good arguments for locating it in the urban core. Of course, one of those reasons would involve even more room: the prospect of having our own Union Station like D.C. or NYC’s again, with intermodal passenger transit in all its forms (heavy rail/Amtrak, light rail, streetcar, bus, taxi). There would be no way to get that anywhere on High without knocking a fair amount of stuff down, though.

  Then again, my design also involves a couple of rail lines going under the river and having a station at City Center. There’s the possibility of a Penn Station-esque mostly underground intermodal station too.

  Hah! This is where Sim City is easier than Real City.

  P.S. If someone designs a Sim City map of Columbus, I’d so play it.
• 

  Rockmastermike November 21, 2008 2:12 pm

  noktulo wrote

  I’m working on designing a fantasy light rail system for Columbus where the major intermodal station is right across from downtown in Franklinton. I think that would work fine with a streetcar line crossing the Scioto on Broad Street. And there is a lot of open space there and train tracks already intersect there.

  Then again, my design also involves a couple of rail lines going under the river and having a station at City Center. There’s the possibility of a Penn Station-esque mostly underground intermodal station too.

  For the sake of realism, you can consider that the tracks in franklinton are mostly elevated to keep them more or less on about the same level as the tracks on the other side of the river (heavy trains don’t do hills well, but light rail is a little better). The C-bus L!

  Also, tunneling under the scioto is much more difficult that tunneling under, say, the Hudson river. The scioto is bedded in unconsolidated material, and the bedrock is perhaps a little too far down for rail tunnels. A train coming out of the tunnel on the east side would have quite a major hill to climb, or would end up a good 100 feet under the convention center in your penn-like station. Which would actually be pretty f-in’ cool, if hellish expensive to build, because, again, it’s not hard bedrock like in Manhattan

  It’s neat idea. I’d like to see what you come up with.
• 

  Cyclist November 21, 2008 2:34 pm

  gramarye wrote
  

  noktulo wrote
  

  gramarye wrote That would, however, likely mean locating it somewhere other than right along High Street, and there are good arguments for locating it in the urban core. Of course, one of those reasons would involve even more room: the prospect of having our own Union Station like D.C. or NYC’s again, with intermodal passenger transit in all its forms (heavy rail/Amtrak, light rail, streetcar, bus, taxi). There would be no way to get that anywhere on High without knocking a fair amount of stuff down, though.

  Then again, my design also involves a couple of rail lines going under the river and having a station at City Center. There’s the possibility of a Penn Station-esque mostly underground intermodal station too.

  Hah! This is where Sim City is easier than Real City.

  P.S. If someone designs a Sim City map of Columbus, I’d so play it.

  I made one once on Sim City 2000. It was pretty rad. Oh, 1995!
• 

  Cyclist November 21, 2008 2:36 pm

  noktulo wrote
  

  gramarye wrote That would, however, likely mean locating it somewhere other than right along High Street, and there are good arguments for locating it in the urban core. Of course, one of those reasons would involve even more room: the prospect of having our own Union Station like D.C. or NYC’s again, with intermodal passenger transit in all its forms (heavy rail/Amtrak, light rail, streetcar, bus, taxi). There would be no way to get that anywhere on High without knocking a fair amount of stuff down, though.

  I’m working on designing a fantasy light rail system for Columbus where the major intermodal station is right across from downtown in Franklinton. I think that would work fine with a streetcar line crossing the Scioto on Broad Street. And there is a lot of open space there and train tracks already intersect there.

  Then again, my design also involves a couple of rail lines going under the river and having a station at City Center. There’s the possibility of a Penn Station-esque mostly underground intermodal station too.

  Is there any free on-line download like railroad tycoon or a sim or game like that we can all get and design and compare our systems?
• 

  michaelcoyote November 21, 2008 3:13 pm

  Cyclist wrote
  

  noktulo wrote
  

  gramarye wrote That would, however, likely mean locating it somewhere other than right along High Street, and there are good arguments for locating it in the urban core. Of course, one of those reasons would involve even more room: the prospect of having our own Union Station like D.C. or NYC’s again, with intermodal passenger transit in all its forms (heavy rail/Amtrak, light rail, streetcar, bus, taxi). There would be no way to get that anywhere on High without knocking a fair amount of stuff down, though.

  I’m working on designing a fantasy light rail system for Columbus where the major intermodal station is right across from downtown in Franklinton. I think that would work fine with a streetcar line crossing the Scioto on Broad Street. And there is a lot of open space there and train tracks already intersect there.

  Then again, my design also involves a couple of rail lines going under the river and having a station at City Center. There’s the possibility of a Penn Station-esque mostly underground intermodal station too.

  Is there any free on-line download like railroad tycoon or a sim or game like that we can all get and design and compare our systems?

  Not that i know of..

  There is a very rare Japanese game that’s a railroad manager simulation game. run a railroad and compete with and merge with other railroads. Oh yeah!
• 

  JohnWirtz November 21, 2008 3:39 pm

  gramarye wrote
  

  noktulo wrote
  

  gramarye wrote That would, however, likely mean locating it somewhere other than right along High Street, and there are good arguments for locating it in the urban core. Of course, one of those reasons would involve even more room: the prospect of having our own Union Station like D.C. or NYC’s again, with intermodal passenger transit in all its forms (heavy rail/Amtrak, light rail, streetcar, bus, taxi). There would be no way to get that anywhere on High without knocking a fair amount of stuff down, though.

  Then again, my design also involves a couple of rail lines going under the river and having a station at City Center. There’s the possibility of a Penn Station-esque mostly underground intermodal station too.

  Hah! This is where Sim City is easier than Real City.

  P.S. If someone designs a Sim City map of Columbus, I’d so play it.

  You can download terrains from Simtropolis.com for Sim City 4
• 

  noktulo November 21, 2008 3:44 pm

  Cyclist wrote
  

  noktulo wrote
  

  gramarye wrote That would, however, likely mean locating it somewhere other than right along High Street, and there are good arguments for locating it in the urban core. Of course, one of those reasons would involve even more room: the prospect of having our own Union Station like D.C. or NYC’s again, with intermodal passenger transit in all its forms (heavy rail/Amtrak, light rail, streetcar, bus, taxi). There would be no way to get that anywhere on High without knocking a fair amount of stuff down, though.

  I’m working on designing a fantasy light rail system for Columbus where the major intermodal station is right across from downtown in Franklinton. I think that would work fine with a streetcar line crossing the Scioto on Broad Street. And there is a lot of open space there and train tracks already intersect there.

  Then again, my design also involves a couple of rail lines going under the river and having a station at City Center. There’s the possibility of a Penn Station-esque mostly underground intermodal station too.

  Is there any free on-line download like railroad tycoon or a sim or game like that we can all get and design and compare our systems?

  I use Google Maps to plan my system:

  http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=113338291183932688952.00045b97ac198973e4fa4&ll=39.968701,-82.85614&spn=1.563953,2.653198&z=9

  It’s changed a bit since I made that map, but that’s the general idea. It worked out pretty well because the system can generally be separated into spokes with each line crossing the city along an axis except for right in the downtown area. I’m making a map right now that will make use of this simplification.

  I’d love anyone’s comments on the system I made. The blue stations at the end of each line are on a separate commuter rail system that you switch over to at the end of the light rail system. The whole system except for the tunnel under downtown and the end of the Westerville spoke runs on existing rail rights-of-way.
• 

  JohnWirtz November 21, 2008 4:20 pm

  Looks good Mike, a lot like the one I made here:

  http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2008/03/22/potential-columbus-commuter-rail-map/

  We also highlighted a couple of other fun fantasy rail maps on XingColumbus that have also been posted here on CU on other threads:

  http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/potential-columbus-light-rail-map/

  http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/the-big-picture/
• 

  noktulo November 21, 2008 4:21 pm

  Are you talking to me? >_> I’m Mike.

  Also I created the system in that last link you posted.
• 

  JohnWirtz November 21, 2008 4:36 pm

  noktulo wrote Are you talking to me? >_> I’m Mike.

  Also I created the system in that last link you posted.

  Yeah, sorry, don’t know why I thought Cyclist posted that. I changed my original post.

  That was a pretty cool map.
• 

  noktulo November 21, 2008 4:49 pm

  But yeah it would be cool if some people threw together some simple maps in Google Maps to show their dream transit systems. It would be interesting to see what everyone thinks would make a good system.
• 

  JohnWirtz November 21, 2008 5:25 pm

  noktulo wrote But yeah it would be cool if some people threw together some simple maps in Google Maps to show their dream transit systems. It would be interesting to see what everyone thinks would make a good system.

  It would, like a digital charette. I have a whole website about my dreams for COTA, some realistic and some not, but I haven’t updated it in a while.
• 

  Cyclist November 21, 2008 6:18 pm

  Here’s one I made months ago and may have already posted. Its not at all regional, and pretty much only stretches to the suburbs.

  
  View Larger Map

  I also made an MS Paint one once, but I can not find it.
• 

  Walker November 21, 2008 7:03 pm

  Cyclist wrote Here’s one I made months ago and may have already posted. Its not at all regional, and pretty much only stretches to the suburbs.

  Is there any criteria you used to base on which suburbs to hit and which to ignore, or were you just tracing existing rail lines? Because I probably would have skipped service to West Jefferson and made sure Reynoldsburg and Pataskala and New Albany were served. Those are major population centers today and are projected for large amounts of growth over the next 30 years.
• 

  noktulo November 21, 2008 7:43 pm

  Yeah, I think we focused mostly on sticking to existing rail lines. Mine goes to Pataskala, but I’m considering adding some new track to go along 161 to New Albany. Maybe I should go to Reynoldsburg too.
• 

  joshlapp November 21, 2008 9:26 pm

  noktulo wrote
  

  Cyclist wrote
  

  noktulo wrote
  

  gramarye wrote That would, however, likely mean locating it somewhere other than right along High Street, and there are good arguments for locating it in the urban core. Of course, one of those reasons would involve even more room: the prospect of having our own Union Station like D.C. or NYC’s again, with intermodal passenger transit in all its forms (heavy rail/Amtrak, light rail, streetcar, bus, taxi). There would be no way to get that anywhere on High without knocking a fair amount of stuff down, though.

  I’m working on designing a fantasy light rail system for Columbus where the major intermodal station is right across from downtown in Franklinton. I think that would work fine with a streetcar line crossing the Scioto on Broad Street. And there is a lot of open space there and train tracks already intersect there.

  Then again, my design also involves a couple of rail lines going under the river and having a station at City Center. There’s the possibility of a Penn Station-esque mostly underground intermodal station too.

  Is there any free on-line download like railroad tycoon or a sim or game like that we can all get and design and compare our systems?

  I use Google Maps to plan my system:

  http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=113338291183932688952.00045b97ac198973e4fa4&ll=39.968701,-82.85614&spn=1.563953,2.653198&z=9

  It’s changed a bit since I made that map, but that’s the general idea. It worked out pretty well because the system can generally be separated into spokes with each line crossing the city along an axis except for right in the downtown area. I’m making a map right now that will make use of this simplification.

  I’d love anyone’s comments on the system I made. The blue stations at the end of each line are on a separate commuter rail system that you switch over to at the end of the light rail system. The whole system except for the tunnel under downtown and the end of the Westerville spoke runs on existing rail rights-of-way.

  I have to say, this would probably be the most amazing rail system ever. I think you should go into city planning! If only it was this easy.
• 

  Walker November 22, 2008 10:32 am

  joshlapp wrote
  

  noktulo wrote I use Google Maps to plan my system:

  http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=113338291183932688952.00045b97ac198973e4fa4&ll=39.968701,-82.85614&spn=1.563953,2.653198&z=9

  I have to say, this would probably be the most amazing rail system ever. I think you should go into city planning! If only it was this easy.

  It’s not a bad regional plan, but it appears to leave a few very dense areas in the city under-served. I imagine that could be fixed by throwing down a few more Streetcar circulators.

  Yeah… if only it were that easy. ;)