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The Dispatch wrote
New stretch of Rt. 161 to offer faster commute
Sunday, October 19, 2008
BY ELIZABETH GIBSON
After they leave work Tuesday, drivers headed home between Franklin County and Granville in Licking County should save five to seven minutes on their commute along a new, four-lane stretch of Rt. 161, officials said.
The Ohio Department of Transportation will cut the ribbon on a 7-mile stretch of the new 65 mph roadway between New Albany and Watkins Road on Tuesday morning and then open it to the public that afternoon.
Drivers will still have slower going between Watkins Road and Granville to the east. ODOT officials expect to finish widening that stretch by May 2010 in the second phase of the $160 million project. Once the project is complete, Stickle said, it should save an estimated 22,000 daily commuters about 15 minutes each way.
Related Stories:
- New $134 Million I-270/Rt. 161 Interchange Opens
So basically we don’t take a chance and move our city forward unless it’s absolutely guaranteed?
Well that’s one way to put us on the map.
I don’t know where you’re getting this “we” from. I’m not speaking for anybody but myself.
We’re already on the map.
Lagging behind Nashville, the Country Music Captial of the World, negates my optimism (I know you were talking about changes in the federal government vs local population, but I’m not going to hold my breath). That’s why I think we should spend that money on roads instead, since that’s what we’re doing anyway. :shock: To make them bike-friendly, of course.
On the upside, my new location has an 88/100 walkscore.
He should count as driver #1 of the 22,000 that will see a shorter commute time.
Bill Lhota lives in Worthington.
Research done by The Danter Group found that 73% of people polled who live or work in the benefit zone would ride the streetcar. There are many people who live, work or attend meetings and conventions along the proposed route, including:
51,000 residents – in downtown, Italian and Victorian Village, University area
141,000 workers at 6,000 businesses in downtown and along High street up to campus
2.3 million – attend conventions/meetings at convention center in 2007
50,000+ students at OSU
More: http://columbus-streetcars.com/qas/index.cfm
Okay, but how many people will actually ride the streetcar per day? How many of those people aren’t already riding transit? I’m for the streetcar, but let’s compare apples to apples, not areawide population to daily users.
Edit: I just read the whole thread. There’s no way 37,230 people per day (=51,000 downtown residents * 73% polled) will ride each day. Most new light rail lines (which are 5 to 10 times longer) serve roughly half that number.
Then how does anything “new” ever get built?
I’m not often in a position to make decisions about that sort of thing, but I imagine that it involves convincing enough people with enough money to invest that building something new is worth doing.
I think Walker was talking about public infrastructure projects. How would anything new like that $160 million OH-161 expansion project get built if we weren’t going to use “potential use” figures to justify it. Obviously, there will be no actual use of any infrastructure before it’s built.
Does it have a bike lane? :?
Then how does anything “new” ever get built?
I’m not often in a position to make decisions about that sort of thing, but I imagine that it involves convincing enough people with enough money to invest that building something new is worth doing.
I think Walker was talking about public infrastructure projects. How would anything new like that $160 million OH-161 expansion project get built if we weren’t going to use “potential use” figures to justify it. Obviously, there will be no actual use of any infrastructure before it’s built.
There are rather complex trip generation models that MORPC uses to predict the number of users on a facility in the future, existing or proposed. People get PhDs in this sort of thing. I only have a Master’s in it.
i’m sure eastern Franklin Co. and western Licking Co. are seeing $$. With a new four lane highway, they can now sprawl out all of the intersections with stand alone fast food joints, faux-european style strip centers, office parks and warehousing. It needed to be widened to stem long commutes but in the end it will just cause more sprawl. it’s a vicious cycle. more homes, offices and retail will be built causing more traffic backup, which in the end will lead to more widened roads.
as for the streetcar, build it. however, at this point, i’m more concerned with when we’ll get our downtown intermodal transit station now that all of these transportation bills are passing. the tides have turned. it’s lookin good. it may be sooner rather than later.
as for the streetcar, build it. however, at this point, i’m more concerned with when we’ll get our downtown intermodal transit station now that all of these transportation bills are passing. the tides have turned. it’s lookin good. it may be sooner rather than later.
There are organic limits to suburban expansion that mere roads will not alleviate: the housing crunch stopped a great deal of suburban expansion dead in its tracks, and while Columbus has the advantage of being a growing city (which means that our growth will continue to have at least a little life even now), nationwide, that’s not necessarily the case. Demographics will also place some limits on suburban expansion in the future; the government building you a highway doesn’t exactly affect your desire to have children one way or the other. High gas prices will at least put a temporary medium-term squeeze on suburban expansion until we transition to some other fuel for our individual/family vehicles.
Then how does anything “new” ever get built?
I’m not often in a position to make decisions about that sort of thing, but I imagine that it involves convincing enough people with enough money to invest that building something new is worth doing.
I think Walker was talking about public infrastructure projects. How would anything new like that $160 million OH-161 expansion project get built if we weren’t going to use “potential use” figures to justify it. Obviously, there will be no actual use of any infrastructure before it’s built.
There are rather complex trip generation models that MORPC uses to predict the number of users on a facility in the future, existing or proposed. People get PhDs in this sort of thing. I only have a Master’s in it.
Sure, but similar techniques could be applied to predicting streetcar ridership, too. What really matters is whether the models for predicting streetcar ridership are inherently, systematically less reliable than those for predicting car ridership.
There are rather complex trip generation models that MORPC uses to predict the number of users on a facility in the future, existing or proposed. People get PhDs in this sort of thing. I only have a Master’s in it.
Sure, but similar techniques could be applied to predicting streetcar ridership, too. What really matters is whether the models for predicting streetcar ridership are inherently, systematically less reliable than those for predicting car ridership.
And I expect that they (probably) were, but the numbers didn’t quite reach 30,000. IIRC, they were in the neighborhood of 4,000-6,000.
I’m not sure about the claim that streetcar ridership prediction is less reliable than car prediction. It’s probably true, but I would think that the existing COTA ridership and comparisons of other similar streetcar lines could give a pretty good estimate of the potential streetcar ridership.
Yeah, I do think those numbers are a bit off, but they’re the only thing I had worth linking to so that I wasn’t just pulling numbers out of thin air.
Of course, the Streetcar is going to have additional measurements revealed in terms of transit-oriented development and such, but I was leaving all of that out as well in a more simple approach to try to compare riders & cost to riders & cost.
Yeah, I do think those numbers are a bit off, but they’re the only thing I had worth linking to so that I wasn’t just pulling numbers out of thin air.
Of course, the Streetcar is going to have additional measurements revealed in terms of transit-oriented development and such, but I was leaving all of that out as well in a more simple approach to try to compare riders & cost to riders & cost.
Whatever happened to the official streetcar report? The Danter study link seems to be down. They had projected ridership numbers in there.
Your point is still well-taken. Large transit projects usually receive more scrutiny than highway projects.
And or course I agree that ridership and car traffic volumes aren’t the only things that count.
The only thing that really bothers me about this 161 project is that it doesn’t seem like ODOT ever considers a multi-modal approach. I would love to see a complete streets approach applied to highway corridors. Why not include a rail line, busway, or bikeway in the right-of-way? Denver’s T-Rex project was a combo highway expansion and light-rail line. Can you imagine how different land use in Central Ohio would look if someone with foresight had included a rail line in every freeway corridor? We’d have lines on 71, 70, 315, 670, 270, etc… The entire region would have developed differently. I often wish the same thing about Chicago, which did have the foresight to put rail lines in three highway corridors (the Dan Ryan, the Eisenhower, and the Kennedy), but not circumferentially on the Tri-State or Veterans (North-South) Tollways.
http://www.columbuspittsburghcorridor.com/
Yes, that’s right an upgraded and super efficient free way direct (mostly) from Columbus to Pittsburgh using this newly updated SR 161.
Can anyone hear the jobs and developments being sucked out of Columbus?
The most annoying issue about this proposal is that the Columbus Pittsburgh corridor parallels the proposed upgraded rail line of the Ohio Hub Plan:
http://www2.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/Ohio%20Hub/Website/ordc/index.html
This is the goofiest fucking thing I’ve ever read. The most goofy fucking thing about it is that the Columbus Pittsburgh Corrider parallels the already super efficient freeway from Columbus to Pittsburgh, I-70.
Yes, that’s right an upgraded and super efficient free way direct (mostly) from Columbus to Pittsburgh using this newly updated SR 161.
Can anyone hear the jobs and developments being sucked out of Columbus?
How so? Not being confrontational, but why?
With this 161 expansion, at least we can be sure that we’ll be treated to more griping about high gas prices, traffic, environmental degradation, and complaining about our politicians who won’t do anything about our addiction to oil.
I love this country!
There will always be griping about traffic, but there ought to be less of that after this investment–that was the primary reason for it, after all. While this will spur new development in the hinterland that will partially offset the throughput gains of the project, it won’t be entirely offset, not unless Columbus’ growth rate truly spikes (not exactly a strong likelihood in today’s housing market).
The only thing that really bothers me about this 161 project is that it doesn’t seem like ODOT ever considers a multi-modal approach. I would love to see a complete streets approach applied to highway corridors. Why not include a rail line, busway, or bikeway in the right-of-way? Denver’s T-Rex project was a combo highway expansion and light-rail line. Can you imagine how different land use in Central Ohio would look if someone with foresight had included a rail line in every freeway corridor? We’d have lines on 71, 70, 315, 670, 270, etc… The entire region would have developed differently. I often wish the same thing about Chicago, which did have the foresight to put rail lines in three highway corridors (the Dan Ryan, the Eisenhower, and the Kennedy), but not circumferentially on the Tri-State or Veterans (North-South) Tollways.
You mean to have the original vision for the Interstate Highway System that included mass transit lines in the middle of freeways before Eisenhower was duped by his advisers?
Rail lines, busways or bikeways are not included in their plans because funding for them simply doesn’t exist in sufficient quantities to make it happen. Hopefully that will all change within the next year or so.
Yes, that’s right an upgraded and super efficient free way direct (mostly) from Columbus to Pittsburgh using this newly updated SR 161.
Can anyone hear the jobs and developments being sucked out of Columbus?
How so? Not being confrontational, but why?
I can imagine the state of affairs if Columbus had been hemmed in by tis surrounding suburbs like Cincinnati or Cleveland. However, Columbus was very smart in annexing large areas outside of its traditional zone of influence to the West, East, and North into Delaware County.
However, the Columbus that I refer to is the core downtown area. Regions that don’t have strong downtown areas never reach their full potential as being economic and cultural centers. The 161 project indirectly hurts the potential of downtown as many businesses and residents never have to look at coming to downtown because of all the cheap and available land that is now open to development.
Like it has been said before in this thread, development continues to push outward while all those left in the city are left with crumbling infrastructure, declining tax base, failing schools, and many residents that can not drive to these new areas because of access or ability to drive.
It is infrastructure that gives value to land and is able to have it developed. The 161 extension gives these developers a free ride to hook into a federal and state built asset. Developers and governments in these new areas will never give a single thought to mass transit, pedestrians, or bicyclists. It is a sad tale that has been repeated over and over.
Why build this multi million dollar freeway when an upgraded rail line from Zanesville-Newark-Columbus is much more responsible and efficient with our resources? People may want to drive, have babies, safe schools and neighborhoods, but in my view they are all cowards if they fail to take responsibility and help solve some of the problems that our great city of Columbus faces.