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Is Indianapolis outpacing Columbus?

The Hegemo The Hegemo
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The Columbus Dispatch wrote Columbus being outpaced by its near-equivalent in Indiana in population growth, jobs, economy

Thursday, April 5, 2007 3:51 AM

By Tim Doulin

There is a rivalry between Columbus and Indianapolis in which size matters. And Indy is catching up.

In some regards they’re mirror-image towns: two Midwestern state capitals straddling I-70, each with two major-league professional sports teams.

And both are growing. It’s just that metropolitan Indianapolis is growing faster and could soon overtake Columbus and central Ohio, according to U.S. Census figures released today.

Indianapolis had about 59,500 fewer people than Columbus. But from 2000 to 2006, it grew by 9.2 percent, compared with 7 percent for Columbus.

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75 Responses to Is Indianapolis outpacing Columbus?

  1. The Hegemo
    The Hegemo April 5, 2007 9:06 am at 9:06 am

    I had to stop in downtown Indianapolis a couple summers ago to pick up something for work. It was the first time in years I’d been in downtown Indy (I have family in Carmel, but we usually stay out on the north side when we’re visiting them) and I was impressed at how much seemed to be going on downtown. Even their downtown mall looks to be busy.

    Cutting back to the expressway, though, it looked like the neighborhoods right around downtown weren’t as gentrified as the comparable neighborhoods in Columbus.

  2. Brewmaster
    Brewmaster April 5, 2007 9:07 am at 9:07 am

    Minor nit-pick…I’d hardly compare MLS and NHL teams with NFL and NBA teams. But whatever. I guess they’re “major-league professional sports teams” even if the difference in attendance is in the hundred thousands.

    Interesting numbers in the article though. Even though they beat us in growth by 2%, our growth of 7% in 6 years is nothing to sneeze at. Especially in Ohio’s economy.

  3. The Hegemo
    The Hegemo April 5, 2007 9:08 am at 9:08 am

    Yeah, I noted that too. But since I’m a fan of the NHL and MLS and not the NBA or NFL, I just took it as a representation of how things should be in a perfect world :lol:

  4. Ndcent
    Ndcent April 5, 2007 9:12 am at 9:12 am

    I’ve spent a good amount of time in Indy.

    It’s okay…I would not say their downtown feels larger however and I far prefer Columbus to Indy.

  5. Schoolboy
    Schoolboy April 5, 2007 9:27 am at 9:27 am

    I second that.

    Their downtown doesn’t seem bigger, nor busier.

    Every time I go there for a sporting event, I mean to stay the night and check out their nightlife… but I always decide to just drive back instead.

  6. Walker Evans
    Walker April 5, 2007 9:44 am at 9:44 am

    I’ve never been to Indy. Perhaps it might be worth a road trip this summer.

  7. uncleboo
    uncleboo April 5, 2007 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm

    Hi all. First post here.

    I’ve often wondered about Columbus’ need to compare with other cities (Cinci, Cleve, Pitt, and now Indy). Seems silly, but geographically I guess it makes sense. And let me be clear – I love Columbus.

    I think Indy has it going on, or at least in the right direction. Huge convention center brings national conventions (and $$) to town, and does it’s share to support their downtown equivalent to City Center. Large number of downtown hotels obviously helps this.

    The sports comparison is interesting – Indy also has the racetrack and two enormous races (totalling over 500,000 in attendance) – I guess Columbus counters with 5-6 OSU football games with similar totals. Both cities generating real revenue.

    For urban growth, check out http://www.fallcreekplace.com, a development just north of downtown that is very similar to what is happening in the Short North/Italian Village area.

    Conclusion – I think they are doing fine, but so are we. Both lack serious mass transit, suffer from suburban sprawl, and inferiority complexes to close neighbors, but at least the conversation is continuing.

  8. Ndcent
    Ndcent April 5, 2007 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm

    uncleboo wrote Hi all. First post here.

    Sup UB – welcome.

    You are right about their convention center…I attend an annual convention there that fills the entire convention center, every hallway nook and cranny ouside of it and the RCA dome. It’s unbelieveable.

  9. Chris Sunami
    kitoba April 5, 2007 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm

    Crap, I’ve been so busy worrying about Austin, and all this time Indy’s been creeping up on us.

    I hate to say it, but their downtown is much nicer. It has the canal, and plenty of pedestrians even at night. However, it does feel “small-townish” more than “big-cityish”.

    I know next to nothing about the rest of the city.

  10. Columbusite April 5, 2007 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm

    Let’s face it, until we decide we want to be a city we’ll be lumped alongside cities like Indianapolis. Even downtowns of cities of 100,000 in Canada have much more going on than ours and that probably goes for Indy too. Lucky for us, we have a variety of urban neighborhoods to pick up the slack.

  11. Brewmaster
    Brewmaster April 5, 2007 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm

    I’d say that this is proof…if you stand still, you’re actually falling behind. If you move forward, sometimes you’re still falling behind.

    We need to invest in our city if we want it to be great. That means more caps, parks, money for the arts, tax incentives, self-promotion, and streetcars followed by light rail. :D

  12. lifeliberty
    lifeliberty April 5, 2007 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm

    yeah, really. like what is the lenght of downtown from nationwide blvd to Mound? 2-3 miles? it’s not like you are going that far for entertainment

  13. columbusguy20
    columbusguy20 April 5, 2007 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm

    Downtown Indianapolis is very nice. It has Monument Circle, the War Memorial, Circle Center Mall, and the canal among others. I have been their a number of times and have always enjoyed it.

  14. Walker Evans
    Walker April 5, 2007 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm

    lifeliberty wrote yeah, really. like what is the lenght of downtown from nationwide blvd to Mound? 2-3 miles? it’s not like you are going that far for entertainment

    What? From Nationwide to Mound? Much less than 2-3 miles!

    It probably just feels longer because it’s too empty. :lol:

  15. lifeliberty
    lifeliberty April 5, 2007 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm

    at least now you can stop off at Gay st along your journey.

  16. honavery April 5, 2007 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm

    When I went to Indy in the past, I kind of felt it was like a giant Dayton. But it seems to be nicer than it used to be, and the amount of sporting events they have there is kind of ridiculous. You have the Pacers and the Colts of course, but then they have a world class natatorium, the NCAA is based there, the final four is there sometimes, and of course the major auto races there too.

    I think one thing Indy has going for it is it is the only major city in Indiana, nothing else even comes close. So a lot of young adults who want to stay close to family or just stay in the state they grew up in will move there for work. In Ohio you have at least 3 options, with Dayton and Toledo probably being 2 other options. I mean Chicago and Cincy are pretty close, but they are still out of state.

  17. 20thousandinmypocket April 5, 2007 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm

    this is funny, i constantly talk about columbus vs indy to people. when i was in indy years ago like 1998 i would have definitely said indy > columbus by a long shot. However, i stopped in it when i moved back to columbus from chicago this summer, and my opinion now has definitely changed and besides the pro sports i would pick columbus over indy any day of the week. indy just seemed so zzzzzzzzzzzz. this is only from me being there for a few hours though, but still it seemed zzzzzzzzzzz.

  18. gramarye
    gramarye April 6, 2007 12:56 am at 12:56 am

    Interesting; according to Wikipedia, Indianapolis is actually more populous than us, but of course, that’s with a “consolidated city-county,” and also ignores the point that population alone does not a great city make. Some of the cities we’ve cited as benchmarks for development clock in well below us: Charlotte is #20, Portland is #30, and adding Minneapolis and St. Paul together (no idea why those two are separate if we’re considering consolidating Cincy and Dayton …) would put them at #18.

    Also, this dealt with actual corporation limits, unlike the other thread dealing with MSA’s. My guess is that a lot of Columbus MSA job growth is happening around the beltway–shorter and less expensive commutes for suburbanites.

  19. joshua April 6, 2007 6:13 am at 6:13 am

    Does it really matter?

  20. Ndcent
    Ndcent April 6, 2007 8:11 am at 8:11 am

    joshua wrote Does it really matter?

    Does anything?

  21. Walker Evans
    Walker April 6, 2007 8:38 am at 8:38 am

  22. Walker Evans
    Walker April 9, 2007 11:07 am at 11:07 am

    Columbus looking over shoulder at Indy, report says

    Mon, Apr 09 – 2007

    IBJ Staff

    Indianapolis is growing faster than Columbus, Ohio, and that concerns officials in the Ohio city, according to the Columbus Dispatch.

    Though Columbus has 59,500 more residents—1.73 million, according to the latest U.S. Census figures—the regions are virtually identical.

    Faster growth could give Indianapolis an edge in attracting expansion-minded companies, Columbus officials fear. Growth also favors Indianapolis in freight traffic at the cities’ respective airports.

    Indianapolis is expanding faster because it weathered the 2001 recession by replacing lost traditional manufacturing jobs with positions in life sciences, logistics and advanced manufacturing.

    READ MORE

  23. milodesc April 9, 2007 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm

    Brewmaster wrote I’d say that this is proof…if you stand still, you’re actually falling behind. If you move forward, sometimes you’re still falling behind.

    We need to invest in our city if we want it to be great. That means more caps, parks, money for the arts, tax incentives, self-promotion, and streetcars followed by light rail. :D

    brewmaster – that sounds great and all, but is it practical? i mean, can the city afford this without killing its citizens with taxes, going into significant debt, or sacrificing in other critical areas?

    i’m not really familiar with the city’s financial situation, so take this post as more of an open question than a challenge to your statement.

  24. timothyb April 10, 2007 10:31 am at 10:31 am

    I have visited Indianapolis a few times and was impressed with the downtown area and the way the downtown is laid out. Lots of museums and things to see and do.

    However, Indianapolis and Indiana has a long way to go to match the more progressive politics of Columbus and even Ohio. As bad as things may seem here, it’s worse in Indiana. The local Indy Paper the Nuvo did a great story a few months back about how the Christian Right wing has control of state government in Indiana. It’s amazing to read how the KKK has roots in Indy politics as well..

    http://nuvo.net/articles/evangelical_lobbyist_eric_miller__the_most_powerful_man_in_the_indiana_statehouse/

    Recently however, the Indiana state gov. deadlocked on a gay marriage ban vote which means there’s another year to go before they try to get it on the state ballot again there.

    In a tied vote of 5-5 Wednesday in the Indiana House Rules Committee, SJR-7, a proposed amendment to the Indiana Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, essentially failed to move forward for the 2007 year.

    “House Democrats took a stand today against ill-crafted legislation that would have done more harm than good,” Indiana Democratic Dan Parker said. “This wasn’t a vote against traditional marriage; it was a vote for protecting vulnerable Hoosiers and promoting job growth.” (Indystar.com)

    The greatest controversy with the proposed amendment was its second paragraph: “This Constitution or any other Indiana law may not be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents of marriage be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups.”

    Several prominent Indiana businesses opposed the amendment for fear it would limit Indiana’s job growth as it would send a message to the nation that Indiana is a state that subscribes to discriminatory practices. The five businesses that opposed the amendment, according to Indiana Equality, are Emmis Communications, Cummins Inc., Dow AgroSciences, WellPoint, Inc., and Eli Lilly.

    Furthermore, opponents argued that the vague wording of the SJR-7 would put the security of domestic violence victims in jeopardy; and it may be used to legally force Indiana’s higher learning institutions such as Indiana University and businesses like Target to withdraw medical benefits offered to employees’ same-sex partners, such as the case in Ohio.

    You can hop the Megabus and visit INDY though. It’s just three hours away… LOL

  25. columbus native April 10, 2007 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm

    Indi has been way ahead of columbus for years. the culture is far more diverse and the people are there for more than college.

  26. Brewmaster
    Brewmaster April 10, 2007 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm

    columbus native wrote Indi has been way ahead of columbus for years. the culture is far more diverse and the people are there for more than college.

    The MSA of Columbus is 1,720,000 people. Ohio State enrollment is approximatley 50,000.

  27. columbus native April 10, 2007 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm

    Brewmaster wrote
    columbus native wrote Indi has been way ahead of columbus for years. the culture is far more diverse and the people are there for more than college.

    The MSA of Columbus is 1,720,000 people. Ohio State enrollment is approximatley 50,000.

    Thats great and all, but how many people of that 1,720,000 people graduated from OSU at one point or another. People come from small cities for school and don’t leave after graduation becouse it’s better than middle america. throw in CCAD, Columbus State, Otterbien, Franklin, and the rest of the smaller schools around and the number of student goes up a bit. So if you look at the bigger picture and not just the current enrolment of the biggest school here. Then it paints a better picture. Columbus is a college town and Indi pretty much isn’t. So nice try and all ,but dig deeper next time.

  28. Brewmaster
    Brewmaster April 10, 2007 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm

    lol.

  29. Walker Evans
    Walker April 10, 2007 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm

    columbus native wrote Thats great and all, but how many people of that 1,720,000 people graduated from OSU at one point or another. People come from small cities for school and don’t leave after graduation becouse it’s better than middle america.

    So if you look at the bigger picture and not just the current enrolment of the biggest school here. Then it paints a better picture.

    I would think that having more people with a college education in a city would be something to brag about. :lol:

    I guess if the people who attended the schools here feel more “college pride” as alumni then that would contribute to a “college town” vibe, but just trying to measure it on college attendance alone isn’t a very good way to gauge this.

    A lot of people go to NYC for college, right? Does that mean it’s a college town?

    According to this report, Seattle has the highest level of college education amongst it’s population, so does that mean Seattle is the biggest “college town” in the US?

  30. gikim1118 April 10, 2007 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm

    I have to agree with Walker. Because we have many universities and colleges, we have many college educated people that stay and live here. That is a good thing. I wouldn’t call Columbus, “college town” because of that. College town is places like Madison, WI and Bloomington, IN.

    Columbus is a city. Those who say it isn’t probably never left the campus area or their suburbia.

    I also don’t agree with Indianapolis being more culturally diverse. Granted that they are growing Mid-Western city which is outpacing Columbus, every new development there is so modern and cookie-cutter that it really doesn’t add to the character of the city. (my humble opinion)

    Now, I’ve been to Indy couple times. (couple of my friends are Purdue and IU grad) Great city but I like the character of different areas and cultures that Columbus has. To each his/her own, I guess…

  31. kgibson07 April 10, 2007 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm

    comparing population doesn’t necessarily paint the big picture when you factor in why or how the population has increased.

    in the past, larger cities have declined because of urban sprawl. this increased the metropolitan area, but decreased a “city proper” population.

    Columbus has seen a large population growth by inducing annexation on surrounding communities through its water and sewage lines.

    So, more people aren’t necessarily moving to Columbus – Columbus is moving with the people.

    This study seems to have sparked debate across the region, according to this blogger – http://theurbanophile.blogspot.com/2007/04/indy-vs-columbus.html

    Interesting stuf…

  32. JohnOSU99 April 10, 2007 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm

    ^ But the population numbers being compared here are for the entire Metropolitan area, so Columbus city proper’s annexations have no bearing on the discussion, right? Besides, Indianapolis has annexed it’s entire county (with a few exceptions).

  33. kgibson07 April 10, 2007 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm

    in other words…people aren’t necessarily moving into columbus for school – columbus is growing, thus negating the ‘college town’ label.

  34. Walker Evans
    Walker April 10, 2007 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm

    kgibson07 wrote Columbus has seen a large population growth by inducing annexation on surrounding communities through its water and sewage lines.

    So, more people aren’t necessarily moving to Columbus – Columbus is moving with the people.

    The news article originally posted is showing growth stats from 2000 to 2006 comparing Indy vs Columbus. How much land has Columbus annexed in the last 6 years? I’ve googled a bit, and can’t find an annexation history, but I didn’t think we’ve added all that much new land since the turn of the century. I thought the major annexation growth happened from the 50s through the 90s, which is out of the timeline for this news of recent growth.

  35. 20thousandinmypocket April 10, 2007 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm

    Now, I’ve been to Indy couple times. (couple of my friends are Purdue and IU grad) Great city but I like the character of different areas and cultures that Columbus has. To each his/her own, I guess…

    hahaha, what the hell, differnet cultures? this is why I hate Columbus, there is no diversity, its white or black, and more recently we have gotten mexicans and somalis.

  36. gikim1118 April 10, 2007 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm

    I’m asian american. and trust me there are lot of asians in Columbus for being a Midwestern city (This coming from a guy who came from the East Coast). There are diversity in Columbus for all race and culture. If you can’t see that maybe you might not be hanging out in the right spots.

    Just think of ethnic restaurants, for example, we have indian, japanese, korean, mediterranean, italian, mexican, and etc… Also, the Oktoberfest, Italian Festival, Greek Festival, Latin Festival and so on and so forth. Also, culture doesn’t have to be just refering to race. We have Comfest which exhibits hippy culture and also the gay/bi/lesbian culture. I don’t know but that is variety of culture to me.

    If you hate Columbus, why don’t you move?

  37. 20thousandinmypocket April 10, 2007 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    I come from queens, that is diversity. 67% of the population is white, that is hardly diverse.

  38. Columbusite April 10, 2007 11:57 pm at 11:57 pm

    And yet you choose to live in Upper Arlington, obviously the most diverse part of the city as far as Columbus goes.

  39. gramarye
    gramarye April 11, 2007 12:02 am at 12:02 am

    Maybe it was just living at OSU, but I certainly saw more than enough diversity in Columbus, and it’s only grown since 2004. There are still some ethnic cuisines that we don’t have, and we haven’t become an epicenter for any great cultural festivals of our own (though I have yet to find complaints about free beer + tacos, or Jazz & Ribfest …), but still, we’re hardly one homogeneous burb.

  40. 20thousandinmypocket April 11, 2007 12:05 am at 12:05 am

    uhhhhhhhh, its in my opinion UA and Bexley are the only decent places to live in Columbus. What do you want me to do, live on summit? Yo0u are a clown, you are put in Boulder, CO category. I forgot its the goal to live in the ghetto for the leftists. Its a way to escape the suburban areas they grew up in. Never met a person from teh inner city whose goal is it to live there when they do not have to. The only people who have those goals are those from the suburbs.

  41. Walker Evans
    Walker April 11, 2007 12:09 am at 12:09 am

    Back on topic please. Enough with the name calling. :?

  42. Columbusite April 11, 2007 12:38 am at 12:38 am

    OK, but first I might add that there is more to diversity than physical appearances & sexual orientation, like philosophies & political views and that places like Grandview, German Village & Victorian Village are not ghettos, nor is Summit St unless you want to stretch the definition of “ghetto” so thin that it has no meaning (I’ll concede to parts of 4th however). Now I don’t see Indianapolis pursuing mass-transit like we are, even as far as just looking into it. I just don’t think competition with them is something we have to worry about. And Boulder sounds like a cool place, so I have no qualms about being relegated to that category, unless they’re really new agey.

  43. Chris Sunami
    kitoba April 11, 2007 9:05 am at 9:05 am

    20thousandinmypocket wrote Never met a person from teh inner city whose goal is it to live there when they do not have to.

    There’s me. :)

    You might also want to check out this documentary. It was filmed in Columbus (in my neighborhood, actually), and one of the major themes is the struggle of some inner city blacks to stay in the homes they grew up in.

  44. Chris Sunami
    kitoba April 11, 2007 9:10 am at 9:10 am

    20thousandinmypocket wrote

    this is why I hate Columbus, there is no diversity

    uhhhhhhhh, its in my opinion UA and Bexley are the only decent places to live in Columbus.

    If you’re not originally from around here, you might not realize that Upper Arlington had a “no blacks/no Jews” clause in its city charter as recently as the 70′s –which is why it remains so pale today. And Bexley, of course, was built by largely by Jewish people who were excluded from other suburbs.

    Enjoy your diversity!

  45. columbus native April 11, 2007 9:14 am at 9:14 am

    20thousandinmypocket wrote
    Now, I’ve been to Indy couple times. (couple of my friends are Purdue and IU grad) Great city but I like the character of different areas and cultures that Columbus has. To each his/her own, I guess…

    hahaha, what the hell, differnet cultures? this is why I hate Columbus, there is no diversity, its white or black, and more recently we have gotten mexicans and somalis.

    God bless the racists out there!

    There are peopel from all over the world that end up here for OSU. Far more cultures than black white, mexican, and samali. Also just for the record do you think the samali’s come from the same place as the blacks?

  46. Ndcent
    Ndcent April 11, 2007 9:18 am at 9:18 am

    20thousandinmypocket wrote uhhhhhhhh, its in my opinion UA and Bexley are the only decent places to live in Columbus. What do you want me to do, live on summit? Yo0u are a clown, you are put in Boulder, CO category. I forgot its the goal to live in the ghetto for the leftists. Its a way to escape the suburban areas they grew up in. Never met a person from teh inner city whose goal is it to live there when they do not have to. The only people who have those goals are those from the suburbs.

    Congratulations, you sound like a real asshole.

    Walker wrote Back on topic please. Enough with the name calling. :?

    Oops! :oops: Sorry, Walker.

  47. Brewmaster
    Brewmaster April 11, 2007 9:30 am at 9:30 am

    Here’s diversity to 20thousandinmypocket as quoted from another thread…

    20thousandinmypocket wrote ]wait because you are from a city you are supposed to be cool with ghettos and blacks? apparently you have never traveled to chicago then because you would realize it is one of the most segregated cities. i am white i like to be where i am a majority, just like people of other races like to be in a neighborhood where they are the majority. lets see if blacks from harlem would be comfortable walking through howard beach? i forgot being cool and trendy nowdays means you have to accept urban blight, and accept the lowclass citizens. sorry guy i went to private schools growing up, i did not slum. you my friend have a horrid conception of people from larger cities, not everyone thinks the ghetto is cool.

    http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=37557&highlight=#37557

  48. gikim1118 April 11, 2007 9:37 am at 9:37 am

    Wow, I live near downtown and I’m a minority. I guess I’m a low-class, ghetto-living person, slumming through life. I also, went to public school and public university, so I guess I’m low-class bum except that I make a very comfortable living, volunteer at local events and enjoy finer things in life.

  49. Walker Evans
    Walker April 11, 2007 9:55 am at 9:55 am

    Ndcent wrote Oops! :oops: Sorry, Walker.

    This thread is currently in a downward spiral. I’m just trying to pull it back out before it gets worse. We don’t need another City BBQ thread.

  50. gikim1118 April 11, 2007 10:01 am at 10:01 am

    Sorry, my last post was the final.

    Now to get back on subject. Does anyone know which township that Columbus has annexed in last 30-40 years?

  51. 20thousandinmypocket April 11, 2007 10:05 am at 10:05 am

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    You can live in victorian village that is fine with me. I just do not see how living in upper arlington somehow means you hate diversity. Diversity does not just mean more blacks, somalis, whatever, its that even within the various groups here there is no diversity. blacks are black, whites are white. (somalis dont count) We have no major carribean population, we have no predominantly irish, greek, russian, italian, whatever neighborhoods. You people crack me up then this douchebag goes on a rant about public education which no one even mentioned. Actually, during my time at Ohio State many of my friends were Asian, guess where they are now? They all moved back to Indonesia to exploit the muslims even more. Not everyone has your idealist thoughts.

  52. gikim1118 April 11, 2007 10:10 am at 10:10 am

    Ok, can we get back on the subject now?

  53. gikim1118 April 11, 2007 10:20 am at 10:20 am

    some good information http://knowlton.osu.edu/dresden/background/CMHannex.html

  54. Walker Evans
    Walker April 11, 2007 10:42 am at 10:42 am

    So, which is better?

    The Columbus Motor Speedway or the Indy 500?

    DISCUSS! :lol:

  55. kgibson07 April 11, 2007 10:50 am at 10:50 am

    The news article originally posted is showing growth stats from 2000 to 2006 comparing Indy vs Columbus

    my bad.

    Indy 500 :)

  56. lifeliberty
    lifeliberty April 11, 2007 10:50 am at 10:50 am

    sweet, free parking.

  57. shroud
    shroud April 12, 2007 7:51 am at 7:51 am

    gikim1118 wrote some good information http://knowlton.osu.edu/dresden/background/CMHannex.html

    Those maps are great! Thanks for posting the link. I only wish they had larger versions to get a better look.

    Really interesting to see several of the suburbs are now completely surrounded by Columbus proper… and how big some of the suburbs have grown in that time too. Dublin especially goes from a tiny little blip to HUGE – almost half the size Columbus was in 1950 even.

  58. columbus native April 12, 2007 9:01 am at 9:01 am

    20thousandinmypocket wrote zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    You can live in victorian village that is fine with me. I just do not see how living in upper arlington somehow means you hate diversity. Diversity does not just mean more blacks, somalis, whatever, its that even within the various groups here there is no diversity. blacks are black, whites are white. (somalis dont count) We have no major carribean population, we have no predominantly irish, greek, russian, italian, whatever neighborhoods. You people crack me up then this douchebag goes on a rant about public education which no one even mentioned. Actually, during my time at Ohio State many of my friends were Asian, guess where they are now? They all moved back to Indonesia to exploit the muslims even more. Not everyone has your idealist thoughts.

    I’m thinking you might be the most ignorant racist out there. If you don’t consider samali’s blacks. If you have never heard of german village or italian village they actually exist right here in columbus

    Truly Amazing.

    I almost sugest taking that 20 grand in your pocket and going back to OSU.

  59. 20thousandinmypocket April 12, 2007 9:58 am at 9:58 am

    Funny, I guess every person on Earth except you does not consider Somalis black. Look at the racial makeup of Somalia, do you see black listed as a race? I don’t. It is listed for other African countries.

    http://www.bloodbook.com/race-eth.html

    I could go on and explain to you how somalis came to be, but you wouldn’t understand. You obviously know nothing of the clan structure in Somalia, or of the reasons why somalia has had conflicts over the years. You sir seem to be the racist.. Somalis are not black. I guess to you anyone with dark skin is black, including indians, arabs, sri lankans, etc. Look at the features of Somalis, jesus christ you are stupid.

    Genealogical claims are an important part of Somali tradition and can appear to outsiders as a form of xenophobic isolation. [11] Loyalty to one’s clan is important and in Somalia it often supersedes any central government authority.

    Somali nationalism often relates to ancestral claims of a biblical and Quranic nature as most Somalis claim some sort of relationship with ancient Near Eastern religious figures and peoples. A hierarchical system exists as competing groups claim varying degrees of important ancient ancestral ties. These differing claims of ancestral origin have been historically used by imperialists such as the British and Italians to divide the Somalis and the civil war of the 1980s corresponded to this somewhat artificial ethnic cleavage between northern and southern Somalis. These tribal and political rivalries have continued to afflict the Somali people into the 21st century as no central government has managed to unite the disparate and sometimes hostile tribes.

  60. Walker Evans
    Walker April 12, 2007 10:03 am at 10:03 am

    shroud wrote Really interesting to see several of the suburbs are now completely surrounded by Columbus proper…

    Yeah, I always find it amusing when driving down a street in the suburbs and seeing signs sayng Now entering Columbus, Now entering “Suburb”, Now entering Columbus, Now entering “Township”, Now entering Columbus.

    All within the span of a mile. :lol:

  61. 20thousandinmypocket April 12, 2007 10:10 am at 10:10 am

    just googling i found this post by a person who claims to be a somali on another board, and his take matches what i have already read:

    I myself am Somali-American, i don’t have white blood but i have middle eastern blood just by being Somali, Somalis and other north east Africans have a distinct look that makes them different from other blacks in that they are not Bantu linguistically or negroid physically, they look like Indian people upfront most people ask me where im from

    Go to neighborhoods on the northside and call a somali black, see if they appreciate it.

    You are a moron, and obviously barely graduated high school.

  62. gikim1118 April 12, 2007 10:50 am at 10:50 am

    oh, geez…

    Maybe it’s time to lock this thread, walker.

  63. 20thousandinmypocket April 12, 2007 10:51 am at 10:51 am

    hey, i didnt bring it back up blame it on the douchebag calling me a racist, which again walker proved his bias by not informing him to stop with the insults.

  64. Ndcent
    Ndcent April 12, 2007 10:55 am at 10:55 am

    20kPocketKingDoucheBag wrote hey, i didnt bring it back up blame it on the douchebag calling me a racist, which again walker proved his bias by not informing him to stop with the insults.

    Respond to the below you why don’t you, biggot.

    Brewmaster wrote Here’s diversity to 20thousandinmypocket as quoted from another thread…

    20thousandinmypocket wrote ]wait because you are from a city you are supposed to be cool with ghettos and blacks? apparently you have never traveled to chicago then because you would realize it is one of the most segregated cities. i am white i like to be where i am a majority, just like people of other races like to be in a neighborhood where they are the majority. lets see if blacks from harlem would be comfortable walking through howard beach? i forgot being cool and trendy nowdays means you have to accept urban blight, and accept the lowclass citizens. sorry guy i went to private schools growing up, i did not slum. you my friend have a horrid conception of people from larger cities, not everyone thinks the ghetto is cool.

    http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=37557&highlight=#37557

  65. 20thousandinmypocket April 12, 2007 10:57 am at 10:57 am

    I fail to see how wanting to live around your own race makes you a racist? So everyone that does not live around people of another race is a racist? You must be kidding me. I would not expect a black person to desire to live in an all white neighborhood nor should he expect me to live in an all black neighborhood.\

    You sir, are absolutely retarded for thinking that.

  66. Walker Evans
    Walker April 12, 2007 10:57 am at 10:57 am

    20thousandinmypocket wrote which again walker proved his bias by not informing him to stop with the insults.

    I’ve warned you both on multiple occassions to stop with the personal insults. I don’t feel like i should have to do it every single fucking time. I’d never get anything else done if I had to tell you guys to chill every time either of you decides it’s time to make things personal and hostile.

    I’m not your babysitter, so don’t come crying to me with your petty insult wars.

    The insults in this thread stop now. No more warnings.

  67. Chris Sunami
    kitoba April 12, 2007 11:01 am at 11:01 am

    20thousandinmypocket wrote just googling i found this post by a person who claims to be a somali on another board, and his take matches what i have already read:

    I myself am Somali-American, i don’t have white blood but i have middle eastern blood just by being Somali, Somalis and other north east Africans have a distinct look that makes them different from other blacks in that they are not Bantu linguistically or negroid physically, they look like Indian people upfront most people ask me where im from

    Unless I read your quoted post wrongly, the statement “makes them different from other blacks” seems to imply that the original poster does in fact consider Somali a subset of black, which would seem to counter your thesis rather than confirm it.

    Nonetheless, race is widely known to be a largely social construct. Although it matches roughly with observable phenotypical differences, the larger determinant is cultural and perceptual. In other words, your race is what you and those around you think it is. There is no hard-and-fast definition.

  68. 20thousandinmypocket April 12, 2007 11:05 am at 11:05 am

    kitoba wrote
    20thousandinmypocket wrote just googling i found this post by a person who claims to be a somali on another board, and his take matches what i have already read:

    I myself am Somali-American, i don’t have white blood but i have middle eastern blood just by being Somali, Somalis and other north east Africans have a distinct look that makes them different from other blacks in that they are not Bantu linguistically or negroid physically, they look like Indian people upfront most people ask me where im from

    Unless I read your quoted post wrongly, the statement “makes them different from other blacks” seems to imply that the original poster does in fact consider Somali a subset of black, which would seem to counter your thesis rather than confirm it.

    Nonetheless, race is widely known to be a largely social construct. Although it matches roughly with observable phenotypical differences, the larger determinant is cultural and perceptual. In other words, your race is what you and those around you think it is. There is no hard-and-fast definition.

    Again look at the bloodlines of Somalis. It is vary different from traditional blacks, and again look at the link that clearly classifies somalis as somalis. Taht is what they are.

  69. gramarye
    gramarye April 12, 2007 11:09 am at 11:09 am

    This thread is being sucked into a black hole, and in case anyone is too lost in the moment to realize it, that was *not* a racial comment.

    On the annexation point: I would actually really like to know a little bit more about how Ohio’s annexation statute works. I wonder if it would even be possible for Columbus to do today what it did in the 1980′s. There’s a small movement among local government law scholars–probably not the prevailing view, and certainly not the majority view more generally (given how much of our population lives in the suburbs)–that advocates legal reforms making annexation easier, particularly of unincorporated territory but even of entire suburbs at times. Columbus avoided this particular trap by acting with prescience back in the 80′s, but many large cities are entirely landlocked by suburbs at this point and cannot grow. Columbus has it comparatively easy on that point, since I believe we still have at least some exposure to the hinterlands of each of the six surrounding counties around Franklin. The goal would be to essentially allow cities to build “suburbs” of their own, within their own boundaries, in their outlying lands and use the money that generally takes up residence there to finance rehabilitation of the inner core and distressed neighborhoods.

  70. Coremodels April 12, 2007 11:10 am at 11:10 am

    ” So everyone that does not live around people of another race is a racist? “

    Honestly, and not wanting to get into a flame war…the simple answer is, YES

    If you intentionally live in an area to avoid another race, I would certainly think you have some racist ideals. Not wanting to live with the POOR has nothing to do with race, the Bottoms are primarily white and not wanting to live there is economic and safety related…not wanting to live near black people isn’t.

    Sorry, just my 2 cents on this.

  71. 20thousandinmypocket April 12, 2007 11:11 am at 11:11 am

    Tons of black people live in the bottoms, apparently you have never liven there. There are many wealthy neighborhoods around Atlanta that are predominantly black, million dollar homes, are all these people racist?

  72. columbus native April 12, 2007 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm

    20thousandinmypocket wrote hey, i didnt bring it back up blame it on the douchebag calling me a racist, which again walker proved his bias by not informing him to stop with the insults.

    UI don’t think walker is aganst the truth number one and number two he has already shut down my last account and told me there would be no warnings this time. So there goes the bias thing. You dissed just about every race out there. that to me is the definition of a racist. When I see someone i think of them as a person and not black, white, samali (which doesn’t count), german, or anything else. There just isn’t a reason to tag someone in this way.

  73. Walker Evans
    Walker May 31, 2007 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm

    Please keep on topic:

    The Post-Bulletin wrote Indianapolis is model for downtown renovation

    5/25/2007 2:44:33 PM

    By Bob Retzlaff

    INDIANAPOLIS — It’s hard to find a city of close to a million population where its core area is being revitalized as much as Indianapolis.

    As a result, many cities across the country are looking to Indianapolis as a downtown renewal model.

    It’s easy to see why. In the past 15 years, Indianapolis has invested more than $6 billion of public and private funds in a host of downtown projects. More development is on the way since an additional $3.2 billion in construction and renovation efforts are on the drawing board.

    These investments have involved a host of wide-ranging projects — the likes of new shopping, restaurant, cultural and entertainment facilities, new and extensive business locations and relocations, high-end hotel projects, classic sporting venues, plus all-important living units. There’s also a downtown convention center that’s expanding to meet a growing need.

    All of these elements bring new and more people downtown. The city’s downtown development association estimates that annual attendance at downtown leisure attractions has increased by a whopping 289 percent in the past 13 years to 17.2 million visits.

    One of the main reasons for the city’s downtown growth is its rating as the third most cost-effective city in the nation for business development.

    READ MORE

  74. CbusIslander
    CbusIslander August 19, 2007 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm

    Visited Indianapolis this past weekend to see DMB up at Deer Creek and I must say the cities are almost indentical. Some advantages Columbus had over the city. Talking with a local bartender and asked “What is there to do on Saturday in town and he said “Columbus always has stuff to do, we don’t” and we found out that it is illegal to have happy hour in Indiana. :shock: We spent the day downtown and there were a good number of people walking around downtown, more likely due to a big gaming convention going on in town (expanding hotels/convention center should be one of our top downtown priorities). Circle Centre is just like city center but as others has said it is because some of the only stores in town are located there. Also, something interesting about downtown is all of the museums. We can easily have a monument circle area here in town. Out by the concert venue which maybe sold in the next few years is probably due to this development of Saxony http://www.saxony-indiana.com/ (Easton equalvalent) All in all a good trip, and Cbus can learn from this indy city’s mistakes and positives.

  75. Coremodels August 20, 2007 7:39 am at 7:39 am

    Yeah man, Gencon was in Indy so that is probably a pretty elevated population level in the downtown area! I know several nerds who made that trip (almost including this nerd, but I bailed at the last minute!).

    I do like Indy though, think it’s an interesting looking city.

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