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The Dispatch wrote
I-70/71 plan shrinks parks
Friday, November 28, 2008
BY DEBBIE GEBOLYS
Plans for rebuilding the I-70/71 corridor Downtown aren’t final, but one thing is: The improved highway will nip off parts of two parks.
The Ohio Department of Transportation will show plans for changes to Dodge Park in Franklinton and Scioto Audubon Metro Park on the Whittier Peninsula at a public hearing from 3 to 7 p.m. Tuesday at Dodge Recreation Center, 667 Sullivant Ave.
In two highway proposals under consideration, new lanes would help untangle traffic through Downtown. That would encroach on the southwest corner of Dodge Park and the north end of Scioto Audubon. ODOT would pay the city fair market value for the 2 acres and would buy adjacent land where the trail could be rerouted and fields rebuilt at the state’s expense.
Related Stories:
- Budget Issues Could Delay Downtown Split Fix
- The I-70/71 corridor: Wrecks waiting to happen
I’ve said it in public and in private, and I’ll say it again. ODOT is a Villain, they are the Dick Cheney of Government Services.
Does Columbus City Hall have any say in these things? Can civic associations halt this?
Can’t we spend that $1B+ on some rail projects both within this city and connecting Ohio.
Did you miss this part of the article, Cyclist?
“We will restore this park, including the baseball field and walking trail,” Burton said.
Dodge’s swimming pool, recreation center, skate park and hockey rink wouldn’t be affected.
“We will restore this park, including the baseball field and walking trail,” Burton said.
Dodge’s swimming pool, recreation center, skate park and hockey rink wouldn’t be affected.
Yes, I read the article today on CU and the other day in paper. I am opposed to this project as a whole, not just because it will disrupt these minor aspects, but because it is a terrible mis-use of state monies for a project that doesn’t answer Ohio’s transportation needs, but only continues along the path of automobile dependence and dismissal of other methods of transportation.
“We will restore this park, including the baseball field and walking trail,” Burton said.
Dodge’s swimming pool, recreation center, skate park and hockey rink wouldn’t be affected.
Yes, I read the article today on CU and the other day in paper. I am opposed to this project as a whole, not just because it will disrupt these minor aspects, but because it is a terrible mis-use of state monies for a project that doesn’t answer Ohio’s transportation needs, but only continues along the path of automobile dependence and dismissal of other methods of transportation.
We’re talking about fixing the most accident-prone stretch of Ohio’s entire interstate highway system (which is extensive, considering our size and population). We’re talking about keeping people alive. Also, that interchange isn’t just used primarily by local commuters (a la 161 & 270); that’s a major national crossroads. That volume of traffic wouldn’t be appreciably reduced by regional light rail to the suburbs, or even the OhioHub and 3-C projects. A great many vehicles passing through that interchange are bound for other destinations.
Also, the OhioHub and 3-C projects will not happen if sold as replacements for interstates instead of additions to them. That is both politically and pragmatically a non-starter.
“We will restore this park, including the baseball field and walking trail,” Burton said.
Dodge’s swimming pool, recreation center, skate park and hockey rink wouldn’t be affected.
Yes, I read the article today on CU and the other day in paper. I am opposed to this project as a whole, not just because it will disrupt these minor aspects, but because it is a terrible mis-use of state monies for a project that doesn’t answer Ohio’s transportation needs, but only continues along the path of automobile dependence and dismissal of other methods of transportation.
We’re talking about fixing the most accident-prone stretch of Ohio’s entire interstate highway system (which is extensive, considering our size and population). We’re talking about keeping people alive. Also, that interchange isn’t just used primarily by local commuters (a la 161 & 270); that’s a major national crossroads. That volume of traffic wouldn’t be appreciably reduced by regional light rail to the suburbs, or even the OhioHub and 3-C projects. A great many vehicles passing through that interchange are bound for other destinations.
Also, the OhioHub and 3-C projects will not happen if sold as replacements for interstates instead of additions to them. That is both politically and pragmatically a non-starter.
Don’t you live in Canton? Thanks for deciding what goes on in this city from 100 miles away. If its accident prone, lets slow the speeds down on it. Nice to see you are a safety guru in this situation, but not when calming traffic and narrowing streets trough residential areas. I’d argue there is as much local traffic as there is regional, and even more so, a lot of east-west regional truck traffic skips this and goes 270 south loop.
Ohio transportation officials estimate that an average noninjury fender bender costs $7,109. Injury crashes — back and neck injuries are the most common — cost $119,843, on average. If someone dies, which happened nine times from 2004 to 2006, the average cost climbs to $4.2 million.
The 2,140 crashes that occurred from 2004 through 2006 cost an estimated $130 million.
The corridor was designed in the 1950s to handle about 120,000 vehicles a day. Slack said that about 175,000 use it now, including about 22,750 during the morning rush and about 25,600 during the afternoon rush
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/10/29/TheSplit.ART_ART_10-29-07_A1_2I8A25R.html?jrl=405013&sid=101&rfr=nwsl&clk=177486
Where you live doesn’t make your opinion any more/less valid. Gram makes good points, so why don’t you address his points instead of trying to attack his character.
I think everyone can agree that SOMETHING needs to be done with the split. Politely asking for everyone to drive slower through there is wishful thinking.
I would also like to see the proposed plan be as non disruptive as possible, but calling ODOT a “villain” is juvenile at best.
Where you live doesn’t make your opinion any more/less valid. Gram makes good points, so why don’t you address his points instead of trying to attack his character.
Thank you.
I’d also note that if we’re talking about the use of Ohio Department of Transportation funds, we’re talking about what a state agency is doing with state funds and the fact that I live in Canton is even less relevant than usual. I could be truly provincial and say that ODOT should be spending those funds in Canton, but the fact is that Canton’s a shrinking city and the roads we have have adequate capacity; what they really need is maintenance, not expansion or major reconstruction projects. (Obama’s plan for increased aid to state and local governments may let that actually happen; for the moment, Canton’s tax base simply can’t handle the demands of existing infrastructure, let alone new projects, and “deferred maintenance” is accumulating.)
We also don’t have any stretch of road where accidents pile up like they do on the 70/71 split. I’m more worried about my dad, who still has to make it through that split every day going to and from work, than I am about myself getting to and from work. (Except on icy days, since Canton had to cut a substantial amount from the salt budget for this winter.)
Where you live doesn’t make your opinion any more/less valid. Gram makes good points, so why don’t you address his points instead of trying to attack his character.
I think everyone can agree that SOMETHING needs to be done with the split. Politely asking for everyone to drive slower through there is wishful thinking.
I would also like to see the proposed plan be as non disruptive as possible, but calling ODOT a “villain” is juvenile at best.
His character and points are one in the same… “business as usual”, support the status quo, and “greed is good”. Gram regularly, if not always, promotes these values whether intentionally or not. We both know we have very different if not opposite values and beliefs… so goes it. :) :(
I still stand by my Villain comment. ODOT has routinely dismissed and pushed aside any means of transport other than motorized private methods. Slashing trough country-side, forest, and urban neighborhood building highways and freeways. They are only now looking into a multi-modal approach, which I have my doubts in: from the website
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/policy/BP2008-2009/Pages/default.aspx
“This bold new plan sets forth the values, goals and initiatives of this department and how ODOT plans to use its personnel and resources to promote safety and reduce congestion on our transportation system, encourage economic development across our state, and advance a multi-modal approach to addressing Ohio’s transportation needs.”
One’s location can make a difference, that’s why someone living in Canton can’t vote for a mayor in Columbus or a President in Mexico. But I’ll take back my comment earlier since I don’t really believe in legal residence anyway.
The voice of someone living in the shadow of this project or whose neighborhood this will most impact does can have a greater voice. You live right next to this project Walker, what’s it mean to you? To the impact on a neighborhood that you have invested in and care for.
The areas that are finally after decades of being trashed by the original installation of 70/71 are just finally coming up to be razed again and returned to the once downtrodden nature of past decades. All through the hegemony that is ODOT. They hold communities and localities hostage to their transportation plans with their funding methods. Maybe if ODOT changed its name to Ohio Dept. Of Autocentricity or ODOA, then maybe I’ll let them slide, but until then, them remain a villain.
Politely asking folks to drive slower is not what I imagined, but rather retooling what already exists without freeway expansion or deletion of nearby buildings, streets etc. Making it physically difficult to quickly move through that interchange. Maybe make the inner city stretches of 70/71 a toll road for regional traffic, thus providing east-west traffic an incentive to use 104 or 270 south. A program where local residents can place EZ Passes on their cars that let them not have to pay a toll and toll the interstate traffic.
$1B+ is a lot of money. That price tag might be what I am so concerned about. That $1,000,000,000 and more will go toward this when we have greater needs in people who can not go to college at state schools, an unconstitutional school funding mechanism that has not yet been addressed. Little intra-state rail transport in this state where a citizen of the state can not even get to the capitol city, while ODOT continues their $500,000,000 widening and upgrading of 71 to Cleveland for the upteenth year. A state with a skilled manufacturing labor force and factory space that could be building rail transport, wind turbines, and future industries. What if Strickland shifted part of the ODOT budget into that?
At that, this project might not even get built since its website has not been updated in a year http://www2.dot.state.oh.us/7071study/ I remember going to that website 2 years ago and voicing my same concerns that I have here.
I’m not surprised by the public complacency with this plan. It only make me feel more and more alienated in my own city.
I can see the presentations to potential businesses considering opening HQ or operations here already:
“Columbus…we make it really hard to get around”
I can see the presentations to potential businesses considering opening HQ or operations here already:
“Columbus…we make it really hard to get around”
You are being silly.
You have made points along those lines on many different occasions. I don’t think your watered-down version of Gram’s arguments really have any merit to them.
If we had no highways, we would not be the 15th largest city in the country. You routinely let your personal lifestyle choices cloud your vision of the big picture. You push for policies that would shrink our city while proclaiming your enjoyment of the big city amenities that can be found here. Every major metropolitan area in the world is serviced by highways. You could not live the lifestyle that you do in Columbus without them.
I’ve already generally stated my position. Something needs to be done to the split to make it safer as well as maintain the large volume of traffic that will continue to flow through it. I want to see as little of the city disrupted, and beautification improvements (caps, better walkability) paid for by ODOT in the process. As for these park changes… it sounds like some things are getting moved around more than they’re getting removed. I’m going to do my best to attending the upcoming meeting to learn more and share my opinions with ODOT. I guess I really don’t feel much of a need to go into further detail with you, because you don’t listen to what other people have to say.
Yep. When you take extremist positions on topics, you’re likely to be in the minority. Welcome to reality! We missed you!
II’m going to do my best to attending the upcoming meeting to learn more and share my opinions with ODOT.
When is this?
Aren’t pretty much all of them serviced by a comprehensive and efficient mass transit system that hasn’t been continually destroyed year after year by an apathetic citizenry?
As to the freeways, we need them and the split does need to be redone. Hopefully they can get it right and not destroy any more of Columbus in the process.
Well, that brings up a couple things…
1. This isn’t a “spend this on the freeway OR spend it on mass transit” question. I’d probably rethink my position if it was.
2. IF or when we do get rail, chances are it’s going to impend on some neighborhood, some park, something…let’s just hope they take the same initiative ODOT is here to make sure they do the right thing.
[url]http://www.preservenet.com/freeways/FreewaysPlansProposals.html[/url]
^^Freeway Removal Plans and Proposals.. my fav is from my hometown…
Nashville, TN, Downtown Loop: Nashville’s fifty-year plan, adopted in 2004, calls for gradually removing the eight-mile downtown loop made up of three interstates – Interstate 65, Interstate 40 and Interstate 24 — and replacing it with parks, boulevards and mixed-use communities to reconnect downtown with adjacent neighborhoods.
Speaking from my current position near Washington D.C. where I can see and hear from traffic reports of I-95, I can definitively say that that stretch of freeway being discussed has a very long way to go before it is as congested and dangerous as the interstates through most urban centers. It’s just NOT that BAD. Seriously. I’ve driven in or through a very large number of cities in this country and compared to them Columbus very little congestion.
At this low level of congestion and at this day and age it makes a shitton more sense to spend the money on moving people and freight OFF the road and onto improved rail infrastructure and easing what little congestion is there now that way. Remember, a single train removes about 300 trucks from the road. Lets move 10 or 11 more trains/day through between multimodal truck-train hubs and take 3000 trucks/day off the road and take care of the problem that way. Modern multimode systems can take trailers right off the rails and put ‘em on semi-tractors for the last mile. Add in maybe 5 400-500 passenger 3-c trains/day and there’s maybe another 10-2000 vehicles (between cinci and cle.)
Speed limit reduction is not needed. Enforcement of the existing but largely ignored 55mph limit IS.
(edited for grammar and poor spelling and a HORRIBLE math rookie mistake)
When is this?
Read the original post.
Aren’t pretty much all of them serviced by a comprehensive and efficient mass transit system that hasn’t been continually destroyed year after year by an apathetic citizenry?
Some do, but that doesn’t change the fact that they still have highways. A healthy city has a balanced transit system. What Columbus needs to do is strike a balance. Highways are important. A vibrant inner city is important. How do we balance the two and make them both work? We don’t have to eliminate one or the other.
When is this?
Read the original post.
Aren’t pretty much all of them serviced by a comprehensive and efficient mass transit system that hasn’t been continually destroyed year after year by an apathetic citizenry?
Some do, but that doesn’t change the fact that they still have highways. A healthy city has a balanced transit system. What Columbus needs to do is strike a balance. Highways are important. A vibrant inner city is important. How do we balance the two and make them both work? We don’t have to eliminate one or the other.
And I agree with you there. The way the states and the Midwest is geared, highways are a vital part. I don’t necessarily side with Zach on this, but I think buried in his comments there is some hint of that same sentiment-that there needs to be a balance. It’ll be interesting to see how ODOT redoes this stretch.