Greener Grocer’s Veggie Van Ready to Roll

By: crsimp01

26 Comments

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  hungrywoolf May 21, 2009 9:06 am

  Awesome. I know the greener grocer twitters – any chance the veggie van will be doing twitter updates of their location? I know it works for the LA taco trucks.
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  crsimp01 May 21, 2009 9:08 am

  I don’t know of the exact locations, but they do have at least 36 locations of which they will be visiting this summer. They plan to have the van rolling (hopefully) through late October or eary November. That depends on the weather.
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  Roland May 21, 2009 9:54 am

  If they play a jingle, there’s going to be a lot of disappointed children in the neighborhood.

  I want a fudgecicle!

  No. Your getting broccoli and you’ll like it!
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  hungrywoolf May 21, 2009 10:38 am

  What would be an appropriate jingle for a veggie van? 

  Radiohead Vegetable
  The popeye theme tune? ‘I’m strong to the finish cos I eat my spinach’ 
  Josh Radin ‘Vegetable Car’ 
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  Anne May 21, 2009 11:06 am

  Veggie Tales theme song? I don’t even know if they have one, but maybe? :)
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  brothermarcus May 21, 2009 1:30 pm

  will they continue to violate their merchant agreement on credit and debit cards with the mobile facility by demanding a minimum purchase?
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  Bear May 21, 2009 4:02 pm

  I’ve seen people charge purchases for ridiculously small amounts, actually — amounts that I myself would be mortified to put on a card. When I’ve seen the sign asking that purchases under a certain amount not be charged, it’s been phrased as a request, not a demand.

  Moreover, it hardly seems like an unreasonable request: given how credit card fees work (x% + y¢ per transaction), they’re a disproportionate burden for business, like the Greener Grocer, that make lots of small sales.
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  brothermarcus May 21, 2009 5:12 pm

  I’ve put a cup of coffee on my debit card because I don’t carry cash, my lending institution and Visa understand that I don’t carry cash and have created a merchant agreement which respects my needs as a consumer.  They require that a merchant sign this agreement in order to accept their cards, and requiring that I make a larger purchase is in violation of that agreement and struck a really bad chord with me as a customer.  I was demanded to make a larger purchase at Greener Grocer quite explicitly, so i left my item on the counter and walked away.   I shop where I’m wanted.
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  Bear May 21, 2009 5:58 pm

  Hmm.  I’ll definitely pass that along to the manager.  I can’t speak for them, but I don’t believe it’s ever been their policy to demand a larger purchase — and as I wrote before, I’ve certainly seen people not respect the request, without as much as an eyebrow being raised.

  That said… I very strongly suspect that what the credit card companies respect is their own bottom line, which is greatly enhanced by forcing merchants to accept their cards even when the fees involved make the transaction not just unprofitable but costly for them.  My needs as a consumer involve things like transparency and low rates, and I find that I only get those when I work very hard at it — they’re rarely handed to me because Visa respects my needs.
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  Colleen May 21, 2009 9:41 pm

  Talk about missing the point brothermarcus…..  we are granting much-needed access to healthy food to under-served communities and you ask about the credit card policy?  Nevertheless….I am the Operations Manager at The Greener Grocer and am very disappointed to hear about the experience you had the store.  I am so sorry about that.  To be explicitly clear, I have trained my staff to communicate that we appreciate the minimum charge on a credit card to be ten dollars and above.  Certainly, you must be aware that credit card companies gouge us independent small businesses with fees:  both a transaction fee as well as a percentage for every amount charged.  The Greener Grocer solely exists to support Local Matters, our not-for-profit partner.  Consequently, the Veggie Van is financially supported by The Greener Grocer.  We will have three vans for this social enterprise project.  Each van requires two paid team members.  Each team needs a wireless credit card/EBT machine, which costs $1200!  Each van also needs a $179 scale that is inspected by Ohio Weights and Measures not to mention the shelving, bins, crates, tents, tables, gas, AAA and insurance coverage, …..shall I go on?  We charge considerably under retail prices to make the goods affordable for our neighboring communities in need.  So, in conclusion I take pride in working for a such a great group of people and would prefer to pass on those obscene fees to our great staff in bonuses at the end of the year or to our hard-working farmers or….  to all of our valuable customers!  Come on in, bm, I will buy you a cup of coffee.  I will use cash.
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  lifeontwowheels May 21, 2009 9:49 pm

  Thanks for the wonderful service you guys provide!
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  brothermarcus May 22, 2009 12:06 am

  Colleen wrote: “Certainly, you must be aware that credit card companies gouge us independent small businesses with fees”

  Yes, helped start and run a small independent business in my hometown in 2006 that accepts credit cards, completely understand the cost… we chose to take a different route regarding credit and debit card use.  The re-education will hopefully prove valuable for someone, I’m not sympathetic.

  Colleen wrote “Come on in, bm, I will buy you a cup of coffee.  I will use cash”

  Thanks for the offer, but I’ve had enough condescension for a while.  I do applaud the initiative on getting healthy groceries to people with limited mobility, and hope they have smooth sailings in their dealings with your enterprise.
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  rdmeeker May 22, 2009 12:43 am

  Now, I’m torn.

  At first I thought brothermarcus was being a bit jerky.

  But then came Colleen’s condescending response totally substantiating bm’s “I shop where I’m wanted.”
  In the end, the credit card policy isn’t the point. Those poorest served probably aren’t using credit or debit cards. It’s the attitude that sees customers as adversaries that leaves a bad taste.
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  Colleen May 22, 2009 12:34 pm

  I’m reluctant to write again, since I obviously didn’t convey what I wanted to convey last time, but I also don’t want to leave you guys with the impression that we’re unfriendly to our customers.  That, I’d never stand for, and as I wrote before I’m going to make sure that people who use credit cards aren’t prevented from completing their transactions.

  I also didn’t mean to come across as condescending, at all!  OK, I admit, I kind of meant to come across as a LITTLE bit snarky, and I shouldn’t have.  After a long day I was excited to see an article about our Veggie Van on CU, and I thought that the comments were going to be all about that, which, obviously, they weren’t.

  I really did mean what I said, that I was sorry that brothermarcus was treated poorly.  And my offer to buy him a cup of coffee to make up for it was sincere.  To prove it, I’ll add a pound of the locally grown asparagus that we just got in, on the house, to my offer, and another apology.
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  chaptal May 22, 2009 12:48 pm

  Way to make this thread about you bm. A good community service becomes cannon fodder because you feel marginalized by not carrying cash. Well done.
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  Walker May 22, 2009 1:05 pm

  Well, in a partial attempt to get things back on topic, and partially just to ask because I’m curious… when will we see a schedule and a list of areas that the van will be stopping? It looks like there is a spot on the website for it, but nothing up yet. I imagine that hasn’t been finalized yet.
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  drew May 22, 2009 1:18 pm

  I’m not much of a cash carrier myself, but I have also worked with a lot of small independent retailers who mention the very real burden they bear due to onerous credit card fees. Retailers that tend to have a large number of smaller (dollar amount) transactions are hit especially hard, and they’re basically between a rock and a hard place – accept credit and lose money on transaction fees or don’t accept credit and lose money from those who don’t carry cash.

  It’s easy to say that they should suck it up, they signed the agreement and they knew what they were getting into, but it really isn’t that simple – it’s an entirely new added cost that favors the big guy to the detriment of the independent business.  

  Colleen’s initial response may have been a bit, um, intense, but it definitely reflects the anxiety I’ve seen from other retailers – many of whom are still trying to figure out how to make a profit.  

  Clearly, small businesses cannot flat-out refuse to accept credit for any size of transaction, but the polite request for ‘cash only’ under a certain amount is indicative of the genuine difficulties that the credit card fees pose to the small guy.  People who respect that request are, in a very real way, doing their part to support small, local, independent business.

  Interesting side note:  You pay off your credit card bill, in full, religiously every month (thereby incurring no fees), and yet you accumulate all sorts of rewards (cash, gas, etc…) – how can they pay you for that when they’re not making any money off of you?  

  Answer: They’re returning a fraction of the income they receive through the fees collected from the purchases you make. 
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  Bear May 22, 2009 1:27 pm

  Not to derail further — I’m sure we can talk about the VV too — but this whole exchange has raised some really interesting questions about people’s preferences on cost vs. convenience, and I think it’d be valuable to know the answer.  Let me pose the issue the following way.

  Imagine that a local business’ average sale is a widget that they buy wholesale for $4, and they’ve found that, to cover rent, salaries, insurance for workers, etc., etc., they have to charge $5 for it to break exactly even.  They also sell some $1 widgets and a few $100 widgets, but by far the average sale is a $5 widget.

  The business can accept credit cards, but every time a credit card is used, there is a charge of 3% of the purchase price + 30¢.  They can’t just eat the cost, or in the long run they’ll go under.  That leaves them with, roughly, the following options:

  1.  Don’t accept credit cards at all, and charge $5 for the widget.

  2.  Accept credit cards, assume that (say) 90% of their customers will use them, and raise the price of the widget to $5.40.

  3.  Accept credit cards, ask that people not use them for small purchases, assume that half as many people (?) will use them for such purchases, and only raise the price of the widget to $5.20.

  4. [added after seeing Anne's post below] Ask customers using credit cards to pay $5.45 for the widget, but sell it for $5 to those paying with cash. (Or, equivalently, charge $5.45 for the widget but offer a 45-cent cash discount.)

  5. Another option that I haven’t thought of? Feel free to volunteer one.

  So the question is, what’s your preference, as someone who regularly buys widgets of different prices from the store?  I’m really curious here, because I know that people really value both low prices and the convenience of not having to carry cash, and I know that just about everyone here is aware that, with small purchases, there’s an ironclad tradeoff between the two — you simply can’t have both, period.  But I really don’t have any idea which one most people value more.

  Maybe this’d be better as a standalone poll?  Or not, whatever.
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  joev May 22, 2009 1:30 pm

  Interesting side note:  You pay off your credit card bill, in full, religiously every month (thereby incurring no fees), and yet you accumulate all sorts of rewards (cash, gas, etc…) – how can they pay you for that when they’re not making any money off of you?  
  Answer: They’re returning a fraction of the income they receive through the fees collected from the purchases you make. 

  And we can all look forward to reinstated annual fees, interest rate hikes for no good reason and reduced rewards.

  On a less tangential note – this program sounds wonderful! Have you worked out a marketing strategy to let residents of the neighborhoods you visit know who you are and why you’re there? I think a nice partner for you in getting that word out would be the neighborhood health centers. Just a thought. Congrats!
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  Anne May 22, 2009 1:50 pm

  Walker and I visited a cute shop in San Fransciso that was non-profit and sold items to benefit a charity. When we wanted to pay for our purchase with a credit card, they politely asked if we would be okay with them adding something like $1.25 to our purchase to cover the cc fees. We had no problem with that.  A possible solution.

  ETA: I always make sure that if I am going to the North Market that I get cash before hand. It wouldn’t be such a big deal if they carried more atms than just Huntington. But since that isn’t my personal bank, I need to get cash before I go. However, I guess that also prevents me from just stopping in to get a quick item if I don’t have cash on me.