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Construction is progressing quickly on the new Grandview Yard Apartments, which includes three four-story buildings that will house 154 rental units. The first residents of this new development are expected to begin moving in this November to enjoy the existing amenities that Grandview Yard has to offer.
The future amenities at Grandview Yard are still in the process of being determined. We spoke recently with Brian Ellis, President of Nationwide Realty Investors, who explained what lies in store for the retail component of this development, and what national retail trends are driving the next phase of Grandview Yard.
Our full interview with Brian can be found below:
Walker Evans: When we last spoke about Grandview Yard, it was right as Phase 1 was completed. And now we’re nearing the completion of the new apartment addition.
Brian Ellis: We’re anxious to get our first apartments at Grandview Yard open in October. It’s going to be a really terrific location, and we’re already seeing some pretty high demand. The integration of residential units is an important step for Grandview Yard.
WE: Phase one included a hotel, office space, a gym, two restaurants and a parking deck. Is this addition of residential units market driven?
BE: Everything is ultimately market driven. From a commercial standpoint, our leasing of the building on Yard Street is almost complete. That’s gone very well during an economic time that has some challenges. We landed Willis, which is a strong tenant for that building. Right now we have a significant amount of activity for anchors for the next office building. We’re in talks right now with some major tenants that will allow us to move on to the next building. So that will be market driven. We also have some activity on the medical office side. We don’t have any commitments right now, but that should be coming down the road.
Retail has always been a significant part of our vision for Grandview Yard. We’ve realized a portion of it with the new Giant Eagle which has been announced, which will open in the latter half of 2013 on the north side of Third Avenue. With that will likely come a bank and two or three restaurants, but we have no commitments so far.
WE: A few months ago, there was a newer site plan rendering of Grandview Yard that was added to the Grandview Yard website, which appeared to be a revision from previous plans. Some of our readers noted that it looked like the project was moving more suburban in design as it progressed toward Third Avenue, with more single use parking lots and big box style developments. Is that accurate to say?
BE: It’s still to be determined and it’s all user driven. The plans for Grandview Yard are changing and evolving all the time. But if we’re going to do any significant retail development in Grandview Yard, we need to have anchor tenants. Right now we’re in the phase where we’re trying to attract strong anchors, which are inherently large. We’re looking to accommodate them, and like virtually all retail in Columbus or in the Midwest, they’re going to require surface parking lots to support them. As much as we’d love to accommodate that in a parking structure, it’s not likely that most of the retail will be done that way.
The updated Grandview Yard site plan rendering, showing large surface parking lots closer to Third Avenue.
We’re trying to create a critical mass from a retail standpoint along Third Avenue so that we can develop Yard Street as a great walkable street between Goodale and Third. To do that, we’ve got to create space for anchor tenants on Third. If we’re going to have retail, we’re going to have some parking lots.
WE: Some of the concerns that I have heard was that out of the gate, Grandview Yard’s plans were very dense and very urban. The first phase has the parking structure that services the hotel, the restaurants, the gym and the offices. So I think people were expecting more of that type of mixed-use parking. Similarly, NRI has set a very strong precedent for mixed-use parking structures in The Arena District. It seems that some of our readers are concerned that if a retail anchor like Best Buy could easily come in to Grandview Yard and demand their own dedicated parking lot that can’t be used for any other purpose. How does that change the average person’s expectation as to what Grandview Yard is going to be?
BE: To use your example — if Best Buy were to come to Grandview Yard, they would certainly demand parking for their store, but not necessarily for their exclusive use. The anchor retail tenant’s demand for parking is the reality of the world. The model that we see in Phase One is the model that we hope to be able to utilize throughout all of Grandview Yard with the possible exception of supporting some of the anchor retail tenants. We will continue utilizing parking structures to support residential and office use.
There is still no certainty that we’re going to have a significant retail component in Grandview Yard in this tough retail market, but we hope that we’re going to be able to accomplish that. It’s really the mix of uses that create the strength of the overall project.
As the developer, we can shape the parking scenario, but it will ultimately be dictated by our tenants. They are focused on how they can best serve their customers.
WE: I think that some of our readers are also watching national trends that show that some of these larger, traditional big box stores are experimenting with smaller urban stores. I think some of our readers are ready to see something like that happen in Columbus. And on the flip side, not a week goes by where you don’t see a prominent national publication running a story about the Millennial Generation and how they place higher value on walkable communities and mixed-use urban density. If Millennials are expected to be interested in Grandview Yard, is it the right fit to bring traditional big box retail to the development?
BE: Our objective is to create a great, urban, walkable neighborhood at Grandview Yard that appeals to all types of people. To do that, we’ve got to create a strong mix of uses and amenities including restaurants, coffee shops, shopping, fashion and other retail. We’re really trying to get the right mix so that we can make Yard Street a great, walkable street and one that is seen as an amenity.
One of the attractive things about The Arena District is that we have great restaurants there. And the reason that those restaurants and coffee shops are there is because of Nationwide Arena, Huntington Park, The LC and The Arena Grand Theatre. We’ve been able to use those amenities to attract restaurants. Grandview Yard doesn’t have that same opportunity, so instead we want to offer anchor retail to lure restaurants, bars and coffee shops and more of the day-to-day retail.
It’s all still up in the air as to whether or not we can attract the anchors that we need. They love the location, but the retail market is difficult right now. We have great examples of outdoor shopping areas at Easton and to a lesser extent, Polaris. Those good examples are really few and far between in terms of what’s successful right now. Retailers across the country are largely turning their noses up at town center developments. It attracted retailers for awhile, but now they’re backing away from it and going back to more traditional shopping environments.
The Apartments at Grandview Yard, currently under construction.
WE: To shift gears back to the residential side… the rental market is very strong right now in Columbus, and there seems to be a heavy concentration of new rental developments happening along the Olentangy corridor between Grandview Yard, Edwards Communities and the Lennox Flats. Do you think that as a whole we are overbuilding rentals in Columbus, or will the market be able to sustain around 3,000 new units coming online in the next year?
BE: The trends look very good right now, and the nearer to Downtown the development is positioned, the better. These projects that are either being considered or are in various stages of development, both in and around Downtown are going to be successful. The housing market will always ebb and flow. I think we’ll see some softness occurring first in the suburban neighborhoods while the urban neighborhoods will stay strong. That doesn’t mean that we won’t have a period of time where the urban rental market will soften a little bit, but right now I feel pretty good about the fact that there’s more people who want to live in and around Downtown. We’re very bullish on it. And when we do experience softness in the rental market, that will be an indicator that the for-sale market is starting to pick up again, and we’ll see a shift from apartments to condos.
WE: Thanks again for the updates, Brian.
BE: My pleasure!
More information can be found online at www.grandviewyard.com.
I am curious why it is that big box stores cannot utilize parking structures and instead require surface parking? I am no urban planner/civil engineer (or w/e profession deals with that concept), but I am assuming there is a reason for it. Perhaps I am misreading the interview, but it appears that he is implying big box retail insists (or at least prefers) on utilizing surface parking over parking decks.
I have seen big box retail use parking decks in multiple places, so why couldn’t that happen there as well? I do understand they are far more expensive and it takes much longer to get a return on the investment, but that doesn’t seem to be what he is issuing as a reason for not using them for the retail portions, but rather retail wants surface lots. Like I said, I may have misread the entire thing.
Grandview needs a Trader Joe’s – not another Giant Eagle .. need to give Whole Foods a little competition.
I love what they have done so far, but I’d like to see more mixed use buildings along Yard Street. Why would a “Big Box” store have to look the same as every other one? Why not create a Best Buy with 2 stories of apartments or condos on top?
@lauray – I think Giant Eagle’s Market District store in Upper Arlington was specifically designed to compete with Whole Foods. This new one won’t be a Market District, but I imagine the expanded offerings will be much more competitive than the smaller older GE stores on Neil Avenue and Fifth Avenue.
It will be nice to get some larger retail stores closer to downtown. Really looking forward to finding out what they can bring in.
For a long time before it was built, I had heard the Yard being referred to as a mini-Easton. It looks like the economy has taken its toll, but I as a downtown resident I really like having this close by.
I laugh that they claim this is going to be a walkable neighborhood. Grandview Yard has barely more density than an office park at the Easton Mall. They really haven’t done anything innovative here, other than place a lot of grass between the sidewalks and the buildings. I understand they’re trying to make a buck, but to say they are making a unique development is very overstated.
If they were honestly interested in making a walkable development, they would have loaded one portion of the development with lots of density….then leave the remainder for the big boxes, chain hotels, and suburban office park buildings.
I’ve never really been a fan of this project, but I think we need to cut them SOME slack. It sounds to me that their initial vision and reality are just not the same. They were clearly banking on a large retail component, and it just isn’t happening for them.
If money were no object they could wait it out, but I suspect they need to turn over these lots any way they can.
@Columbusmike…why is this not going to be walkable? they have built 3ish buildings along yard street. we have absolutely no idea how urban it will be from what they have currently done. We need to push for them to be urban, but they haven’t been un-urban yet. As to them loading everything into one, dense area, and surrounding that by suburbanity…do you mean polaris’ outdoor walking area? I mean…that is not urban either. They are actually doing some amazing things by connecting this development directly into the street network in the bordering neighborhoods. That is the most walkable thing they can possibly do.
@ehill…no, we shouldn’t cut them slack. At least not in the way you are saying. We should just let them do whatever they want because they will lose money otherwise? They knew the constraints of the land they were purchasing. If they lose money on that fine, but we shouldn’t just let them build polaris or sawmill because they need a quick buck. We need to demand quality.
Agreed on not cutting them some slack. Grandview is bending over backwards to make the permitting process, etc as easy as possible based on them agreeing to build a dense, walkable neighborhood. Grandview has given them tax incentives — paid for on the backs of its residents — to make a dense build a reality. This is is bit different than most incentives for new development out there, because Grandview gets “one shot” to make this a success. They don’t have a bunch of land like Dublin, Grove City, or Columbus. As a Grandview resident, I’d rather see this take 15 years to get it done right than see it turned into a tax-subsidized, suburban-style eyesore. We lost the Big Bear warehouse and our tax base took a hit. Now, we’re willing to give out some “corporate welfare” payments with the understanding that a sustainable, tax generating neighborhood will be grown out of the proceeds. We do not want to subsidize something that could be shuttered up before the tax abatements even expire.
I think chasing after big box anchor stores with few stipulations when that concept is clearly struggling is ultimately a losing long-term strategy for the Grandview Yard project and the area itself. Best Buy is staggering about now with store closures, Home Depot and Lowes have their issues, and even the mighty Walmart has admitted to woes that have much to do with how its customers are faring (or not faring) in the current economy everywhere.
It might be good for awhile to land one of these giants and give them a suburban-style lot, but when it goes belly up a couple of years from now, you wind up with a huge white elephant that may be impossible to fill with another tenant (not many other Walmarts being born right now), and difficult and costly to retrofit into some other use.
At the very least, they should follow the plan of something like the University Square shopping center in Cleveland: dense, multi-level development that mostly fits well with the streetscape and surrounding development: http://shopuniversitysquare.com/About/67/Index.htm
Retailers follow the whims of their clientele. If retailers,big box or small independent, feel that something will work in the area and customers will respond well to it then generally they will attempt to impliment it. The problem is there are no good examples of big boxes in truly urban settings in columbus to determine if a urban store layout would be succesful in the market. Most large national big boxes have urban store layouts that are already succesful in other markets.I mean bed bath and beyond and home depot offer home delivery and have very limited parking (if at all) at certain locations in alot of major metro areas. Based on my observations, urban store layouts are generally not very succesful for retailers if they are in fairly close proximity to larger suburban stores of the same brand as well.Although these stores get some local traffic, they often get bypassed by people outside the immediate area for the larger store with a larger selection thus rendering the smaller store stagnant at the least.
Another issue that I think we may be missing is that large retailers want a large population base before they plop down a store. I would guess that the population base that would be walking to grandview yard is nowhere near large enough to sustain a big box(even in a smaller urban layout) and therefor ample parking is deemed a necessity to make a company feel that they can be profitable as a “destination” store from people outside of they immediate area.
Although I do think grandview yard has great retail potential, I feel in this economic climate that retailers are looking for home runs and are also wanting to hedge their bets(more parking,even larger population base then required before)before they start building.
a big box store at this location would make bajillions of dollars. easy. look at lennox. highest grossing target and movie theater. its just behind tons of parking.
I don’t have a problem with getting a big box anchor store in here. And I really don’t have a problem with tons of surface parking. Just put it behind the store. Just hide it. We don’t have the transit or the urban connections (i’m not gonna walk to grandview yard from vv) to get the necessary foot traffic. Give the building a couple stories — or at very least the easton facade of two stories (its hard for multiple stories on big boxes) — and call it a day.
^ The #82 Cota route makes this virtually an extension of OSU campus. I think most people would be savy to that.
it only comes every 30 min tho…womp womp
@NEOBuckeye That is one of the locations (the university square center) I was thinking about when I first asked my question above. I don’t understand why the developer seems to think that they have to have huge patches of blacktop to get anchor stores. Maybe they don’t think that way, but the interview seems to imply that. If they simply said it was too expensive and doesn’t make economical sense to build something like the university square deal, I could understand.
I have heard from NRI employees that the goal is to convert to condos ASAP. I assume that speeding the other phases along will help that cause.
Lots of interesting discussions and good points being made all around. This is a tough issue that I can see both sides of. Ellis is correct that retail is a tough market right now, and the economy is preventing many large retailers from considering expansion. I’m sure those retailers expect to be accomodated greatly to be convinced to build a new store, even if we all think it would make sense as customers. As soon as restrictions start popping up (you have to use a parking deck, you have to build a multi-story building) the retailers back away.
At the same time, I think there are some good points being made that Grandview Yard would ultimately be better served to ride it out and wait for the right fit. As soon as single-use suface parking lots become a priority, the level of walkability diminishes. I don’t consider walking across several acres of parking lots between your home and the grocery store to be a walkable neighborhood.
I do agree that parking could be “hidden” in the backs of buildings, which could be a good compromise for the time being. Buildings could be built up against Yard Street, which as Ellis mentioned is the important main street through the development. The only problem with that is the stores would be required to build at least two main entrances, one from Yard Street and one from the parking lot. Or, you either choose whether you want the “front door” facing the street or the parking, and which customer you make walk around the building to get in.
As several have pointed out, parking is a necessary part of Grandview Yard for retail, as it doesn’t have the residential base yet to support larger retailers. Any type of bigger retail anchors will need to draw from several miles of surrounding communities. I don’t think it would be too hard to find a retailer unique for this location though. Other than the Lennox Town Center, there’s not a lot of non-grocery big-box anchors nearby. Most of that is located closer to 270, so this centralized location could be a big draw for a lot of people.
Also, I do think it’s worth pointing out that the Arena District started off with many surface parking lots that have gradually been filled in with new mixed-use buildings, offices, apartments, condos and parking garages. We’re seeing several parking lots disappear in the Arena District right now. There’s no reason that the same approach couldn’t be taken with Grandview Yard if planned for infill down the road. Arrange anchor retailers and their parking lots in a proper configuration from the outset and eventually start converting surface parking lots into a garage when the market makes sense to do so.
I can’t help but find it a little annoying that many big box or large chain retailers have urban stores in other cities, but it feels like that option is off the table here in Columbus. I’m sure from a market research perspective, those retailers see that there’s no precedent for it here, so it probably seems like a riskier move because there’s no way to measure whether or not an urban concept would be supported. Same goes for most all of the midwest markets (excluding Chicago). I’d love to see a big retailer take a chance on an urban format here, but I think it’s going to take either some larger financial incentives from a developer, or a larger concentrated effort to prove that there is a market for that.
Overall, it sounds like everyone wants what’s best for the neighborhood. Everyone just has a slightly different version of what that looks like. ;)
Seems like Giant Eagle is the new Starbucks. I can’t deny it I shop there too…RIP Big Bear
My biggest question about this whole project is how do they plan to manage traffic from 5th to Goodale?
To me, as I’m sure to most of you as well, the term “walkability” means more than just the “ability to walk.” When I think of neighborhoods or shopping centers that are walkable, I think of areas with a lot of character and a lot of unique retail, housing, green space, etc. Whether that character is defined by historic buildings, unique architecture, vibrant small retail shops, or whatever is irrelevant–there are many ways an area can have character. It seems to me that the Grandview Yard developers are slapping sidewalks next to the road and calling the area “walkable,” but where’s the joy in walking past a bunch of run-of-the-mill big box retailers and heaps of apartment units that all look exactly the same? How are they planning on bringing any character to this development?
And on a side note, why is it just taken for granted in Columbus that we have to have giant parking lots? I know I make the comparison to Indianapolis a lot, but their market seems almost identical to ours, yet somehow they’ve managed to accommodate several big box retailers like T.J. Maxx at the heart of their downtown with no onsite parking. Why are we so different here?
I know they keep referring to Grandview Yard as a retail destination, but when do they give up on it being a big-chain retail location and move their focus to dense housing with smaller-scale shops? I know the profit for smaller shops is probably much lower, but they may be able to lease such space easier. Mariemont, Ohio is a good example of smaller scale retail that supports a somewhat dense residential component that looks and feels similar to the rest of Grandview.
When I spoke of the walkability of this development, I was more or less referring to the fact that the buildings are set back way too far, the roads are too wide, and the blocks are too big. Nothing about this development is walkable except for maybe the fact that it has a little more mixed-use than a traditional office park or suburban development. I think we should refer to it as a Less Auto-Dependent Development. Maybe the future phases will be different, but so far good walkability principles have been absent.