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For the past year, there have been ongoing discussions about the future of Nationwide Arena and the Columbus Blue Jackets. The team is losing money, and discussion between The Jackets, Nationwide Realty Investors, The City of Columbus and Franklin County have not yet provided a plan for addressing the issue of retaining the team.
Several months ago, the Forward Together Columbus committee was launched as a citizen-led effort seeking to rally community support for fixing the funding issues and keeping the Blue Jackets in Columbus. We recently sat down with John Bentine, Co-Chair of Forward Together Columbus, to find out more about this initiative.
Walker Evans: I’ve heard from some people who are confused about what exactly this effort and petition mean. Can you give us the brief overview?
John Bentine: Sure. The co-chairs of this effort are a diverse group of people. We had all independently contacted the Blue Jackets. The Blue Jackets did facilitate us getting together, but we are self-led. We have taken on the task of trying to do some public education about why this is important and has ramifications beyond the Blue Jackets themselves. We are not supporting one solution over another other than to say that there needs to be some sort of public/private fix for the financial situation. There is a financial model in place now for the Blue Jackets that is different than any other professional sports team in the country, and it really can’t be sustained. I’m not connected with the Blue Jackets in any way, but my view is that there needs to be some solution, so we’re promoting that. The city of Columbus was given a gift from Nationwide and the Blue Jackets initially in the way of our Arena getting built with private money. That created a very strong economic engine here… it’s a destination place. If the Blue Jackets aren’t there, I don’t know what happens to that district and the arena. The convention bureau gave us some estimates on the amount of traffic they get just from having the arena there. So it really is synergistic. The Short North and the Arena District, in my view, are a real destination place with a lot of diverse activity and we need to continue to cultivate that and not let a big piece of it go away.
WE: The Chamber released a report in November about the different solutions for this issue and what they would mean. The Forward Together petition basically says that we need ANY solution. Are you finding it difficult to get people to sign it because of that?
JB: Some people want to see a specific solution. That is a legitimate question. People do ask exactly what we are promoting. We are promoting some sort of fix that involves both the public and private sector. I’m not sure we can come up with that solution on our own though… that is going to take a lot of discussion between county commissioners and other elected officials and Nationwide and The Blue Jackets. We’re six volunteers and a steering committee of forty-some members. We don’t really have time to do that, other than to say there are people that can make the decisions that need to get together and do something about this. Of course, that has caused some people to say that they can’t really support signing that petition. But there are a lot of models out there for solutions. There was a nice article on the Columbus Hockey Writers’ Blog that looks at the NHL’s other structures on how they are supported. Obviously, I think people will say that the less public involvement, the better. But we just know that given the things at stake, it justifies some public involvement.
WE: So what can we learn from those other cities and setups? Our situation is fairly unique, but are there similar sports franchises that have been setup with this type of private investor development?
JB: No, and that’s what’s interesting. Most of these Arenas that have been built in the last twenty years have had some public involvement and have had continued public involvement. We are unique. I look at it as a gift that we got without a lot of tax payer subsidy and involvement in the beginning. That went on the ballot several times and this community voted it down. It did get done using private money and it is a great venue. It becomes something that now that we have it we need to make sure it is sustained. I just went over to Indianapolis recently to watch the Buckeyes play. They have a vibrant and full downtown. It made me realize how important this is. It is driving our downtown development now. This is a great asset for our community.
WE: As you mentioned, when the Arena was originally proposed for publicly-funded construction, it was voted down. Do you think people are going to vote down any new publicly funded plan? And if they do, do you think Nationwide will follow the same steps that they did before and step up to the plate to find a solution on the private-sector side?
JB: I don’t think what we have right now can be sustained. They are not making this stuff up. I think the McConnell’s had a commitment to this community. They still have that commitment. Nationwide still does. But the model can’t be sustained in my view. I liken it to an insurance policy… if it’s brought in $30 million in taxes now, can we afford to put some of that money back in for what it’s created? I think that’s right. The disposable income of people in Columbus is the disposable income… some of those dollars are going to go someplace else if the Blue Jackets aren’t there. If that starts fading, the district is bringing in less tax money. Youth hockey events bring a lot of people from the region to the Arena. If you start losing the infrastructure that supports that, then you are going to lose that revenue. We’ll also lose a draw for conventions and other events. If the Blue Jackets move, it would be hard to believe another major league franchise is going to come to Columbus to fill the gap. How will the Arena District be sustained? That’s a scary thought for me.
WE: About a year ago there was an article saying that The Blue Jackets have brought $2 Billion to our local economy since their start in Columbus. I’m been hearing many people debate about what it would look like if the Blue Jackets did leave town… how many supportive or secondary jobs would be lost. Do you have any studies or projections on that?
JB: I don’t, no. Maybe somebody else has done that… I don’t know. I do think we have to look at this in terms of what the Arena is doing today. Like I said, if the Blue Jackets move, I don’t know how you maintain or operate the Arena as a stand-alone entity. I don’t know how losing a 15-thousand attendance trickles down. Some say the lockout was a trial for that, but that was a short term issue. What worries me more would be the long term affects. I’d hate to try to predict that, but I’m sure that it wouldn’t be a good scenario.
WE: I’ve heard some folks talking about the original expensive lease agreement that has not allowed the Blue Jackets to turn a profit year after year. There’s also the issue of player and employee salaries growing each year. Do you think some of the private solution could come from a renegotiating of the lease between the Jackets & NRI?
JB: Absolutely. I haven’t been involved directly, but I think Nationwide is willing to be flexible to be a part of the solution, as well as the Blue Jackets. Everyone is committed to finding a solution to this. We just need to find it and move on.
WE: What are the short term plans for the Forward Together petition?
JB: We’d like to get to 10,000 signatures on our petition. It’s at 9,116 as of April 18th. We’ve got more petition efforts going on in the Arena District. People on the committee are emailing, making the media rounds, letters to the editor, and things like that. Some of those have been coordinated efforts, but more have been from individuals who have decided that this is an important issue.
More information can be found online at www.forwardtogethercolumbus.org.
Right – “the arts” and the Scioto Mile are not for profit business organizations with employees making millions a year.
What I find interesting is that when the Columbus symphony got into financial trouble and it looked like they couldn’t survive under the current financial model, they asked for concessions from their employees, the musicians. And they got it in the form of significantly reduced pay. Would the hockey players be willing to make the same concessions to insure that the Blue Jackets survive in Columbus?
I’m not sure that a lack of a professional hocky team will have a negative impact on the convention business. I really can’t see someone saying; “Well we’d love to have a proctologists convention, but there is no hockey team within walking distance”.
BTW, how much are they paying that player who called Columbus a; “Goat town”?
Tenzo, to be fair to that player, he may have had literary intent. Washington Irving used the term “Gotham” in the early 1800s as a satirical sobriquet of sorts for New York City. Gotham is an old Anglo-Saxon word that means “Goat’s Town.” Perhaps that player is a 19th century American literature buff who let his passion encroach upon his sense of civic pride.
I think we are learning that when a city of our demographic and economic capacity expends resources, space, and energy on providing an arena for the explicit purpose of supporting a corporation’s vanity professional sports enterprise, then that city to a degree, whether it likes it or not, is at the mercy of that corporation and that enterprise. When the corporation claims it requires considerations from the city or it will take its toys and go home, there are two choices, and both, like this year’s Blue Jackets, stink on ice: either yes, the city will make considerations and subsidize your untenable business practices; or no, we are prepared to have an empty, all but useless, $175,000,000+ building sitting in the center of our city for the foreseeable future. It’s clear to me that Forward Together has terrific intentions, and I’m sure they are honest in their efforts. I wish them luck in coming up with a creative solution. But the private/public partnership isn’t a true third-way. Such a partnership will inevitably be out of balance in favor of the private at the expense of the public, precisely because this was a vanity endeavor for the private “partner” from the beginning, and it has become an economic well-being issue for the public. I don’t think it rises to the level of “extortion,” as I’ve heard and read it described in other places, but the city will pay a price no matter the outcome.
So basically all professional sports stadiums exist in America today because of public-private partnerships aka some type of public financing, right? I can’t think of any reason Columbus would be an exception.
So being against public financing of pro stadiums is basically deciding to be against having pro sports in town. Fair enough, we can disagree about this.
Just food for thought, I think that whatever the city does with the Bluejackets will ultimately be the fate for the Crew. And probably for any another pro team the city tries to get in the future.
here are some quotes from the Crew’s ownership and GM:
[URL="http://www.crewxtra.com/live/content/features/stories/2009/11/19/ca_u_crew_gm.html?sid=108"]Crew GM Mark McCullers 11/2009[/URL] “We’ve seen what’s happened with the Blue Jackets and their situation with a privately financed, privately held facility. This community has struggled in getting public-private partnerships put in place in order to build professional sports infrastructure, and it’s something that we’ve got to figure out. I’ll be meeting, and I have been meeting with local politicians and community leaders. But we need to fix this problem for the professional sports industry, not just the Blue Jackets, so in five to 10 years, when we’re either needing to address our situation here or if we’re talking about a new stadium, we’ve got a mechanism in place that’s a public-private partnership that’s going to be able to get the job done and in five to 10 years we’re not looking at the same situation with the Crew that we’re looking at with the BlueJackets right now.” [URL="http://blog.dispatch.com/crew/2010/03/more_from_clark_hunt.shtml"]Crew Owner Clark Hunt 3/2010[/URL] [B]Are you at the point where you are simply waiting on some help from local business and political leaders to help with some of the facility improvements you would like to see?[/B] “I wouldn’t say we’re waiting on it. That’s something that’s very important for us to cultivate. Ultimately, sports franchises belong to the communities they play in. From a fan standpoint, a corporate standpoint, a political standpoint, we need people to understand our value to the city. We haven’t yet gone throughout the difficult process of building a publicly-supported facility. That’s probably something the franchise is going to need to stay in Columbus. That’s our home, but at some point in the future we’ll have to cross that bridge.â€Â
If the Jackets leave, I think the Crew eventually will too. And then we’ll be left with only one taxpayer supported Professional sports team in town, the Buckeyes ;)
Just some food for thought Crew fans
Crew GM Mark McCullers 11/2009
“We’ve seen what’s happened with the Blue Jackets and their situation with a privately financed, privately held facility. This community has struggled in getting public-private partnerships put in place in order to build professional sports infrastructure, and it’s something that we’ve got to figure out. I’ll be meeting, and I have been meeting with local politicians and community leaders. But we need to fix this problem for the professional sports industry, not just the Blue Jackets, so in five to 10 years, when we’re either needing to address our situation here or if we’re talking about a new stadium, we’ve got a mechanism in place that’s a public-private partnership that’s going to be able to get the job done and in five to 10 years we’re not looking at the same situation with the Crew that we’re looking at with the BlueJackets right now.”
Question to Clark Hunt, owner of the Crew 3/2010
Are you at the point where you are simply waiting on some help from local business and political leaders to help with some of the facility improvements you would like to see?
“I wouldn’t say we’re waiting on it. That’s something that’s very important for us to cultivate. Ultimately, sports franchises belong to the communities they play in. From a fan standpoint, a corporate standpoint, a political standpoint, we need people to understand our value to the city. We haven’t yet gone throughout the difficult process of building a publicly-supported facility. That’s probably something the franchise is going to need to stay in Columbus. That’s our home, but at some point in the future we’ll have to cross that bridge.â€Â
I definitely see the other side of the issue. Its pretty sickening that taxpayers money supports private businesses instead of being spent on goods and services for the citizens. But on the other hand darn it, I love my Columbus pro teams! It’s clearly a character flaw, I blame it on the y chromosome. I’m sick of pulling for Cleveland and Cincinnati teams. Anyway, unfortunately I don’t see how we keep the Jackets or the Crew without some type of deal with the devil like this.
Man, if the Jackets and Crew leave, we’ll be left with only one taxpayer subsidized professional sports team in town… the Buckeyes! ;)
I’m a HUGE Crew fan. I’d hate to see them leave. But it’s the nature of the game: if the business model doesn’t work without public money, then it doesn’t work. The city shouldn’t subsidize them if their fans can’t keep them afloat. Sucks. Even if I love them, I can’t defend their viability if you can just walk up to the stadium, scalp a ticket for $5, and still sit in the first row.
For the most part, yes, professional sports is subsidized by public money. Teams move to whatever city can be fooled into giving them the biggest free ride. Flip the argument over: just because other cities do it, why does that make it OK? It’s better for the cities to just refrain—like Austin does in general, like Seattle did with the Sonics, etc.
“Sports franchises belong to the communities they play in” is, flatly, a lie. If it were the case, every team would be the Green Bay Packers. The Crew belong to Mr. Hunt. We see none of the profits, nor the losses. As it should be—it’s a private business. The public should not bail it out because it’s a bad business model. If another city wants to do so, that’s fine. Our money is better spent on something that brings real economic development.
The Buckeyes are precisely reversed. The athletics department not only is fully self-sufficient, but donates money back to the University, which receives taxpayer support. In that sense, it lightens the taxpayers’ burden. They’re our Packers. Not many college programs can claim that!
Bottom line: if you want a company to stay in business, get folks to purchase their goods. Don’t seek help from the government. If not enough folks buy the goods, the company goes out of business. Not every company should stay in business on the government’s dime. It’s capitalism, and it’s what do best—even better than sports.
I think we need to be fair, here. There has been some comparison to varying degrees between the Blue Jackets and the Crew, and some points of clarification need to be made.
First, the business choices that these two organizations made at their respective inceptions were quite different. Those behind the Blue Jackets decided that they absolutely had to have their team play in an expensive arena right in the middle of downtown, and they were under pressure, from NHL and others, to get it done fast. Like many other examples from that time in the late 90s and early 00s (examples which are now cautionary tales that, unfortunately, I think many in business and finance are desperately trying to ignore) the exuberance to “have it now” and not think long-term of sustainability and consequence has led to an untenable situation for the NHL in Columbus, and possible collateral business casualties in the Arena District.
The Crew investors and operators were much more deliberate, and as such they were immeasurably more accommodating to the city. Furthermore, they had a realistic understanding of the near and long-term financial and real estate circumstances. They built a privately funded, simple yet first-rate stadium on public land in a place that was certainly not their first choice. They recognized that if they couldn’t get what they wanted now, they could settle in a less than optimal location, put down roots, and grow into the community. Then, maybe someday, they could afford to move downtown to the place they wanted in the beginning. While the Blue Jackets spent beyond their means, demanded considerations then and demand more considerations now from the public, the Crew spent within their means and gave consideration to the community. In this regard, between the Blue Jackets and the Crew, it’s night and day.
Another important fact to keep in mind is that the ownership structure of the Crew is quite different from that of the Blue Jackets. The Crew, like all of the teams in its league, are part of the single-entity structure of Major League Soccer. The Hunt family is the largest private investor in the Crew, they manage the operations of the Crew, but they are not the “owners” of the Crew; the owner is MLS. This creates a great deal more stability for a still relatively new league and team. The Crew certainly are a private enterprise, but it’s a unique and effective private enterprise in that it incorporates certain, dare I say, socialist principles and safety nets that seek to ensure that it spends within its means, grows at a steady clip, and doesn’t melt-down like we, sadly, are seeing the Jackets do.
None of this is to suggest that the Crew are impervious to financial hardship; but I think it is important to not identify what Lamar Hunt created – and what has been sustained by practical use of resources – with the mess that Nationwide, the NHL, and the Blue Jackets have created and now expect the public to help to solve.
All true. I think MattCooper and I are lumping them together in terms of the public subsidy argument—my point being that neither team should be. I would definitely agree that the Crew aren’t mismanaged like the Blue Jackets’ situation has been, you’re right.
One (semi-) defense I will definitely offer up to the Blue Jackets is to that arena, though. The one thing arenas/stadia can offer that could be identified as a public good is geographically targeted spending/development. The entertainment spending on the whole is just substitute spending, but an arena/stadium can make sure that the money is focused in one specific neighborhood. The arena was instrumental in building the Arena District.
That said, a) I think the A.D. is now beyond needing the Blue Jackets to stay alive/develop, and b) focusing entertainment $ in one neighborhood has the side effect of other areas losing out. Remember when people used to go to the Brewery District? Likewise, if the Jackets leave and R Bar or O’Shaughnessy’s go out of business, it might be a shame, but those entertainment dollars and jobs aren’t lost—they’ll just be redistributed to other local venues.
So now that the Dispatch has kept out the casino they can tout the idea of the AD not being viable without the Blue Jackets.
This is just a bait and switch where they make their money on the AD development then stick the county with the Arena.
The finances the faced the Blue Jackets are not new. All the expenses and incomes where foreseeable. Nationwide and the Dispatch should work out their own deal with the Blue Jackets and stop asking for handouts. They already have received millions form their property tax abatement.
I just think it’s the particular sport. The residents of Columbus just will not put tax dollars behind a hockey team. I don’t think it has anything to do with win/loss record either. I think if the team were winning it would still have trouble here, simply because it’s hockey. It’s not a knock on pro sports, it’s a knock on a particular sport.
Statement from John P. McConnell
http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=62139&navid=DL
he seems like a nice guy.
I don’t think the public will pay for it. So it’s up to Nationwide to reduce the bill. But they apparently don’t want to, because they want the city to pay for it.
I think this is gonna end up with the Jackets leaving. It’s very difficult right now for NHL teams to make money. The Jackets get a subsidy from the NHL which helps offset their losses. But even if the arena had its rent paid for, the Jackets would struggle to be profitable in the Columbus market.
They should probably move to Cleveland. Since Cleveland has a public arena and another major league team in the arena, the Jackets have more potential to make money. Or at the very least, they should threaten to move to Cleveland so that Nationwide would reduce their rent.
But I still don’t think that even with the rent reduction that the team can survive in Columbus. If the NHL subsidy changed or dried up, the team would be in even more dire straits. And basing the economy of a team on this kind of income is likely to be disastrous.
Recent Interview with Mark McCullers, Crew GM
MLSsoccer.com: You’ve seen how Philadelphia has done it with football and baseball stadiums and two arenas in the same area. Is that what you envision for the Crew someday?
McCullers: Major league cities figure out ways to get major league sports infrastructure built. Columbus has not figured out how to do that yet and we need to. We have to. We better.
MLSsoccer.com: That sounds ominous.
McCullers: We won’t be a major league city for long if we don’t figure it out. I’ll tell you that right now. That’s a fact. That’s not my opinion.
We won’t sustain ourselves without a private-public partnership that’s going to keep our facilities up to speed with what’s being built now, which are all being built with public-private partnerships. We’ve got to figure it out.