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Why Should Hillary Quit

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Started 4 years ago by Tigertree
Latest reply from myliftkk

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Tigertree
771 N. High St.
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So, I think she should quit because it's better for the party. I get that line of reasoning. I just feel like most of the crying for her to quit is a little unfair. She isn't down by that much. She's put 100's of millions of dollars and more time (many would argue most of her life) than most of us could deal with into this one moment, and everyone just expects her to be noble and back out?
I am not a Clinton supporter, and I do wish she would drop out. I just think the reporting on the issue is a little biased.

Posted 4 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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Let's see how today's voting turns out first. Texas isn't looking as strong for Obama on last report.

Posted 4 years ago #
Tigertree
771 N. High St.
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Right. But don't you think the thousand "if Hillary looses today, she should drop out" has already caused her to loose some supporters?

Posted 4 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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Maybe some. But like you said, she's not behind by far at all. I think she'll stay in if she thinks she has a chance. She's a pretty pragmatic person.

Posted 4 years ago #
Brewmaster
Portland, OR
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To be fair, it was started when Bill said, "Hillary needs to win Texas AND Ohio."
Even if she wins by single digits in those two states, she'll likely need to game the system and sway superdelegates to actually win the nomination. Clearly, democratic leadership doesn't want that to happen.

Posted 4 years ago #
MikeReed

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I don't think she should quit. It's all about running the race.
She should let Obama beat her fair and square. :D

Posted 4 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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Brewmaster wrote To be fair, it was started when Bill said, "Hillary needs to win Texas AND Ohio."
Even if she wins by single digits in those two states, she'll likely need to game the system and sway superdelegates to actually win the nomination. Clearly, democratic leadership doesn't want that to happen.
Or does it? If you look at votes by registered Democrats, Hillary actually has the lead. Obama is winning now because he has more independents voting for him in open primaries. I think this sort of situation (albeit this time around the difference is almost nil) is the reason the party has superdelegates.

Posted 4 years ago #
Brewmaster
Portland, OR
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joev wrote
Brewmaster wrote To be fair, it was started when Bill said, "Hillary needs to win Texas AND Ohio."
Even if she wins by single digits in those two states, she'll likely need to game the system and sway superdelegates to actually win the nomination. Clearly, democratic leadership doesn't want that to happen.
Or does it? If you look at votes by registered Democrats, Hillary actually has the lead. Obama is winning now because he has more independents voting for him in open primaries. I think this sort of situation (albeit this time around the difference is almost nil) is the reason the party has superdelegates.
So my vote as an independant should count less? I rank the candidates like this:
1) Obama
2) McCain
3) Hillary
And according to polls, I'm not alone. If anything Superdelegates should be giving more weight to my vote if they'd like to win the White House.

Posted 4 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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Brewmaster wrote
joev wrote
Brewmaster wrote To be fair, it was started when Bill said, "Hillary needs to win Texas AND Ohio."
Even if she wins by single digits in those two states, she'll likely need to game the system and sway superdelegates to actually win the nomination. Clearly, democratic leadership doesn't want that to happen.
Or does it? If you look at votes by registered Democrats, Hillary actually has the lead. Obama is winning now because he has more independents voting for him in open primaries. I think this sort of situation (albeit this time around the difference is almost nil) is the reason the party has superdelegates.
So my vote as an independant should count less? I rank the candidates like this:
1) Obama
2) McCain
3) Hillary
And according to polls, I'm not alone. If anything Superdelegates should be giving more weight to my vote if they'd like to win the White House.
The Democratic primary is not a "fair" vote by general election standards. Your vote does count much less than a superdelegate's vote. Superdelegates are unbound by any supposition of what they should take into consideration when they vote. Many states don't allow independents to vote in party primaries. I'm not agreeing with the rules, that's just what they are.
McCain is my second favorite, too.

Posted 4 years ago #
MikeReed

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I like Hillary.
I am also an independent and forewent that to cast my lot for Obama. I love this guy and, you know, I don't even know why.
I mean- I am aligned with him on the issues, but my zeal for this candidate exceeds a reasonable amount based on that alone.

Posted 4 years ago #
Brewmaster
Portland, OR
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joev wrote The Democratic primary is not a "fair" vote by general election standards. Your vote does count much less than a superdelegate's vote. Superdelegates are unbound by any supposition of what they should take into consideration when they vote. Many states don't allow independents to vote in party primaries. I'm not agreeing with the rules, that's just what they are.
That's my point about why democratic leadership wants hillary out soon. Democratic leadership wishes superdelegates never existed because they are the very definition of disenfranchising voters and give the appearance of slimy politics.
Even if this is not supposed to be a truly fair election process (it's just a party-sponsored nomination process), people in this country won't view it that way. They'll be pissed off and vote the other way in November.

Posted 4 years ago #
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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Brewmaster wrote They'll be pissed off and vote the other way in November.
Or just stay home again. That's my big fear, is that super delegate shuffling at the last minute ends up with even MORE voters feeling disenfranchised after yet ANOTHER election, and stay home for the General Election...again.
p.s. The other issue I have with Hillary staying in is ads she's running like her latest Mondale/phone spot. She's basically campaigning for McCain at that point, if Obama wins the nomination.

Posted 4 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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Brewmaster wrote
That's my point about why democratic leadership wants hillary out soon. Democratic leadership wishes superdelegates never existed because they are the very definition of disenfranchising voters and give the appearance of slimy politics.
Even if this is not supposed to be a truly fair election process (it's just a party-sponsored nomination process), people in this country won't view it that way. They'll be pissed off and vote the other way in November.
The superdelegates exist to keep the Democratic nomination from being usurped from the outside. Now that McCain has the Republican side tied up, I'll bet a whole lot more Independents and Republicans will vote in the Democratic primary. It is possible (not happening in this election) that in a state with an open primary, Republican could ask their voters to vote for a weak Democratic candidate and tip the balance.

Posted 4 years ago #
Mercurius
First Avenue
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MikeReed wrote She should let Obama beat her :D
I don't know, the south is already troubled by interracial relationships. Once it comes out that a black man is beating a white woman, you are going to start to see some real outrage and maybe lynch mobs. :lol: :oops:

Posted 4 years ago #
LauraA
LaLaland
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i don't want clinton to win but i think i'd lose any respect i had for her if she just rolled over and let obama win.

Posted 4 years ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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Keep in mind that the superdelegates have not always been a part of the Democratic primary system and there was a reason the system was changed to include them--I think in 1980. That's not so long ago by historical standards, though it is a generation now.
The primacy of the Iowa and New Hampshire caucuses that everyone takes for granted now has not been carved in stone throughout history, either.
The Texas primary system is one of the most complicated in the country. I seriously doubt it would even fly as constitutional as a general-election system.

Posted 4 years ago #
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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gramarye wrote The Texas primary system is one of the most complicated in the country. I seriously doubt it would even fly as constitutional as a general-election system.
Yeah, I just started reading up on that earlier...it's like 80% primary and 20% caucus or something???

Posted 4 years ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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Pfeh, don't ask me. I'm sure CNN has a flowchart or something somewhere. I started reading something on it and moved on to more interesting headlines, like the daily weather report for western Mongolia.

Posted 4 years ago #
hazy stars
The Brauhaus
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University Of Cincinnati Poll
So, hypothetically - Clinton steals the democratic nomination (HYPOTHETICALLY PEOPLE - do not cat scratch me) - who will everyone vote for in November (assuming McCain is the Republican candidate)?

Posted 4 years ago #
Schoolboy
Columbus
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Make no mistake, last I knew Huckabee was already mathmatically. If it's not a mathmatical elimination, then it's definitely an obvious one. McCain is the nominee. The only reason Huckabee is still in it, is to at least give some attention to McCain while everyone pays attention to the Obama/Clinton saga.
I think the Dems will have a far greater number stay at home if Hillary wins the nomination rather than if Obama wins.

Posted 4 years ago #