Analogue Kid
Olentangy West
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columbusmike said:
ssnyder5, thanks for the links. I had no idea that it was this small of a project - I did not understand the scope of the proposal. This seems to be a pretty minute change.
It is really no big deal compared to something like a Morse-Bethel connector, but a casual observer might think it was based on the amount of noise it has generated.
ssnyder5
Clintonville
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columbusmike said:
ssnyder5, thanks for the links. I had no idea that it was this small of a project - I did not understand the scope of the proposal. This seems to be a pretty minute change.I'd have no qualms of this proposal. I could maybe see the addition of some traffic calming features (cobblestone, landscaped median, etc to keep vehicle speeds down). I've seen several vehicles fly across that intersection at 35mph+ while pedestrians are crossing.
No problem. The idea with the enhanced crosswalks is that they would be a different material (most likely brick) that would stand out to make the pedestrian crossings more visible. There are also a number of other traffic calming measures that the community has looked into, such as striping EN Broadway to create a road diet.
At the same time, the turn lane would help to improve the safety and quality of life for families living on those side streets south of the intersection. There are numerous problems that result from diverting traffic onto narrow side streets that were never designed to carry that volume nor the scale of some of the large commercial trucks that get onto the side streets trying to find a way south.
See the photo from page 4 of this discussion: 
columbusmike
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I'd like to see the inclusion of some landscaped traffic medians here...which could highlight the neighborhood, similar to these, and slow traffic:
heresthecasey
Funkytown
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columbusmike said:
I'd like to see the inclusion of some landscaped traffic medians here...which could highlight the neighborhood, similar to these, and slow traffic:
+1
Right now that intersection is pretty unfriendly for pedestrians and an embarrassment as the centerpiece of Clintonville.
Widening it and adding the left turn lane has to be done with a real effort to improve the experience for people walking in the area.
A disaster I think should not be repeated here is the recent addition of the left turn lane at High and Hudson. All that project has done is made a bad intersection worse. I hope the city can recognize and learn from its mistakes.
jeff_r
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heresthecasey said:
A disaster I think should not be repeated here is the recent addition of the left turn lane at High and Hudson. All that project has done is made a bad intersection worse. I hope the city can recognize and learn from its mistakes.
Not to derail this conversation, but I thought left turn lanes from Hudson to High were a good idea. I'm curious, what about that project or its implementation are you unsatisfied with?
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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ssnyder5 said:
No problem. The idea with the enhanced crosswalks is that they would be a different material (most likely brick) that would stand out to make the pedestrian crossings more visible. There are also a number of other traffic calming measures that the community has looked into, such as striping EN Broadway to create a road diet.
How do you do a road diet on a street that's already only one lane in each direction?
ssnyder5
Clintonville
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bob.os said:
Still more excellent reporting from the Clinton-Como folks, including this gem from Blazer's proposed resolutionWhereas, individual commissioners could be subject to legal action for interfering with the rights of private landowners,
More on that from the city attorney's office today. In response to further questions about Blazer's proposed resolution on the turn lane the following response was sent from Steve Dunbar, Assistant City Attorney:
An area commission cannot prohibit itself from taking future action. A resolution seeking to prohibit future action could simply be overturned at a subsequent meeting.Area commissioners cannot be held liable, in either their personal or official capacities, for their votes. If a legal claim were brought against a commissioner for his or her vote, the City Attorney’s Office would represent the commissioner pursuant to ORC 2744.07 (pasted below). Because there are no legal grounds for such a claim, we would ask the court to dismiss the case and order the person who filed the case to pay our expenses and attorney fees.
Stephen C. Dunbar
Assistant City Attorney
Mister MooCow
Near Mooney's Mansion
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ssnyder5 said:
More on that from the city attorney's office today. In response to further questions about Blazer's proposed resolution on the turn lane the following response was sent from Steve Dunbar, Assistant City Attorney:An area commission cannot prohibit itself from taking future action. A resolution seeking to prohibit future action could simply be overturned at a subsequent meeting.
Thanks for including that-- it points out the problem ENB folks have with the CAC passing a resolution against further widening of ENB (and with the "turn lane" proposal in general).
Years ago, the CAC had already passed another such resolution completely against widening ENB-- a more recent CAC passed a new resolution (after it was pointed out that the previous resolution conflicted with the "turn lane" supported by the then-newer CAC) that said "oh, except for this little part of ENB that will be used for a turn lane".
As Steve Dunbar points out: even though the CAC votes one way today on something, a future CAC can vote to overturn a previous resolution.
And, just to clarify another point-- there does appear to be a plan to widen ENB. Notwithstanding elected leaders' and city appointees' statements that they'll never do such a thing, it's in the city's overall planning document for the area that North Broadway should be 4 lanes all the way from Kenny to I-71 (I've seen the document and am trying to find it my archives). To date, this plan has been successfully resisted by the ENB folks. Given that a future administration can just as easily change its mind about implementing the plan, I think it would go a long way toward establishing trust if this plan were officially changed to exclude a 4-lane from High to Indianola.
And, of course, let's not forget about the basis for the current lawsuit-- that there is apparently a conflict between the city's idea of how much land they own/control and the residents' (and title companies') idea of how much land the city owns/controls. I'm not a lawyer and don't understand the intricacies, but apparently the city disclaims the county's previous vacation of the larger right-of-way that includes areas to be incorporated into the intersection.
Jeff
---
I'm the steward of my paddock and am in the best position to judge what's beneficial for my paddock, so moo!
Pablo
Crestview Addition
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Well, this could be entertaining:
Turn lane back on CAC plate tonight
With four new commissioners, group will take another look at divisive issue
By KEVIN PARKS
ThisWeek Community News
Tuesday March 5, 2013 10:50 AM
Carole W. Tomko had a ready explanation why the chairman of the Clintonville Area Commission would announce last week that yet another proposal supporting a controversial left-turn lane at East North Broadway and North High Street would come before the advisory panel."Incompetent leadership," the North Broadway Street Association president said.
Naturally, CAC Chairman Daniel J. Miller offered quite a different reason.
"The issue has been sent back to us by (Mayor Michael B. Coleman), and it's up to us to respond,"
NEOBuckeye
Ohio At-Large
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IMHO, a designated right turn lane at southbound S. High Street at Henderson should be an even higher priority. Maybe nothing is more frustrating in Clintonville than being stuck under a stop light and a green arrow behind someone heading straight, particularly during rush hour.
columbusmike
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I understand the concern from Clintonville Residents that this may evolve into a larger road widening. I would imagine that a road widening project would be met with even more resistance.
Pablo
Crestview Addition
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columbusmike said:
I understand the concern from Clintonville Residents that this may evolve into a larger road widening. I would imagine that a road widening project would be met with even more resistance.
That's just a fantasy scenario being pushed by the East North Broadway residents to rally their troops. The resolution the CAC was going to vote on last night limited the widening to allow for an extra lane between Broadway Place and High. I don't know of anyone in the City who is pushing to widen the entire street (which would be a shame - it is a lovely street).
DouginCMH
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Pablo said:
That's just a fantasy scenario being pushed by the East North Broadway residents to rally their troops. The resolution the CAC was going to vote on last night limited the widening to allow for an extra lane between Broadway Place and High. I don't know of anyone in the City who is pushing to widen the entire street (which would be a shame - it is a lovely street).
Absolutely. Not as big a fantasy as The Great ENB Traffic Circle proposal, but still without substance. As much as this idea has pitted the ENB crowd against pretty much the rest of C-ville, one way to unite the entire community would be to propose a widening of ENB from High to Indianola.
Mister MooCow
Near Mooney's Mansion
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Pablo said:
That's just a fantasy scenario being pushed by the East North Broadway residents to rally their troops.
Actually, not so much fantasy as coded in the city's official development plan dating (and unchanged with regard to ENB) from the 70s (or maybe mid 60s?). It has ENB eventually being indistinguishable from WNB -- 4+1 lanes wide. If the designation of ENB were changed so that this would never happen, a lot of people would feel a lot less concerned about a "slippery slope".
DouginCMH
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I see the 4-lane ENB concept mentioned in the 1993 Columbus Thoroughfare Plan. That Plan is referenced in the 2009 Columbus Neighborhood Plan (though I don't believe the '09 Plan says that such an extension should be pursued; it only shows diagrams from the older plan, which show the proposed widening of ENB).
Horrible idea.
Mister MooCow
Near Mooney's Mansion
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DouginCMH said:
I see the 4-lane ENB concept mentioned in the 1993 Columbus Thoroughfare Plan.
Right. And, though there have been amendments, check out the footnotes on this map. Specifically "the 1993 Thoroughfare Plan hardcopy map remains the official map".
DouginCMH said:.
Horrible idea.
Agreed. And to the credit of the drafters of the current resolution before the CAC, there is a call for Council to codify the status of [the remaining portion of] ENB as a 2-lane road. I think, though, it would be better if it were worded more along the lines of "we only support the intersection improvements if the 2-lane status is codified."
bob.os
Columbus *not* Cbus
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Thanks to the amazing Mister MooCow you can read spectator notes from last nights meeting.
They are an excellent account of what one if these meetings should be like. Nobody remembers the rules. Votes are postponed because people are sick. Everybody's garage is built in the right-of-way.
I was thinking to myself, "self: I think they've gotten it together. Maybe the crazy is over."
But then there is the public comment section and this gem.
S Simbro: Regarding RNNC meeting that Nivens discussed: she recommends commissioners attend; Regarding N Broadway: Objected to holding meeting so far away from stakeholders; Also mentioned that there was not a particular report posted on website that had been promised; stated that this CAC is not adopting standards of practice that were inherited 20 years ago. She said in response to the resolution, District 2 residents will be asking the Morse Bethel Connector to be resurrected; that they are forming a petition
Yep.
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